Fixing my front door, how to? - Page 2

javadog · 01-09-2014, 01:28 PM

Before I contemplated all of that, I'd first answer the question of why the gap at the top hinge is larger. Fix what is causing that and you might be able to ignore everything else until you replace the door.

JR

scottmandue · 01-09-2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadog

Before I contemplated all of that, I'd first answer the question of why the gap at the top hinge is larger. Fix what is causing that and you might be able to ignore everything else until you replace the door.

JR

Zackly!

This is my wood framed house, second floor over a garage, slab foundation on clay and rock. One block from a cliff and the ocean. Yes the ground shifts a wee bit, but it is the price of an ocean view.

I just want the door to work while we save up for a new front door then I will worry about ripping the walls open and all that.

This is a block from my front door:

dyount · dyount's Garage

++ on using either toothpicks and glue or using a pocket knife pull a sliver or 2 out of pine and glue in. WAIT until it's fully set/pre drill a pilot hole and use the next longer size screw as well. Keep in mind that some "wood" screws have a countersink grind on the side of the screw AND modern drywall screws are heat treated and hardened and easily snap. I'd use more of a decking screw or something with a square drive or #3 head.
Also it looks like the hinges could use a replace if they are old. Appear to be 3 1/2 " butt. If replacement later this year just youtube how to and it should go easily without having to remove drywall/jack up the house/ re single and point the chimney as some might think.
Doors are all about how they work and look and not about being perfectly plumb/level. In fact, if you attempt to use a level in both a plumb and level plane in the same project it will not work with the fault built into all levels. Plumb is your friend here

dyount · dyount's Garage

Looks to me that if you take care of the hinging the side gap is going to be as it should be.

Bob Kontak · Bob Kontak's Garage

Are you sure the top hinge is flush with the hinge pocket. Your second pic appears to have a gap on the door side of the hinge.

Given things were ok before the install of the fatter screws, and the house probably did not settle while you were putting them in, could be an install issue.

look 171 · 01-09-2014, 02:53 PM

Scott, for a Band Aid fix until you get a new door, then just tighten up screws with tooth picks and shave the upper end of that door to make it work. I bet if you lift the door by the lock and you will feel the door move at the hinge. Forget sanding, too messy and takes too long. If you need a borrow a power plane, give me a shout. It will take you about 20 second to straighten that door out. I can take it to you at work. I am 15 minutes away without traffic. This way it may be an excuse to take my kids to the museum.

WPOZZZ · 01-09-2014, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnco

golf tee works better than toothpicks

I use disposable chopsticks from takeout food.

scottmandue · 01-09-2014, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Are you sure the top hinge is flush with the hinge pocket. Your second pic appears to have a gap on the door side of the hinge.

Given things were ok before the install of the fatter screws, and the house probably did not settle while you were putting them in, could be an install issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by look 171

Scott, for a Band Aid fix until you get a new door, then just tighten up screws with tooth picks and shave the upper end of that door to make it work. I bet if you lift the door by the lock and you will feel the door move at the hinge. Forget sanding, too messy and takes too long. If you need a borrow a power plane, give me a shout. It will take you about 20 second to straighten that door out. I can take it to you at work. I am 15 minutes away without traffic. This way it may be an excuse to take my kids to the museum.

All screws are tight at the door and frame (now)... I suspect the hinge at the top has tweaked. The hinges are all old and appear to be brass.

More investigation is required.

look 171 · 01-09-2014, 03:27 PM

Hinges are usually good and do not tweak. the door is pulling itself away from the frame and gravity is pulling the door itself out of square (jamb is out too I bet). Plane the upper edge of the door so it wouldn't stick until you get a new front door. It should last you for another couple of years.

Aragorn · 01-10-2014, 08:04 AM

I would first check the door frame with a level to make sure that it was the door/hinge and not the frame that is out of whack.

Use a level and tape to check the frame opening (measure the gap with a tape at the top, middle and bottom) and place the level on the sides (frame, not the trim) and top of the door frame. If it bubbles out (bubble in middle on sides and top) and the measurement is same at top middle and bottom, then it is the door (swelled) or the hinge (fatugue) that is most likely the problem.

The hinge swap (top to bottom) idea below is a good temporary fix if the hinge is the problem. If the door has swelled, then planing (with a hand plane) the offending area should get the door to close.

How to Stop a Wood Door from Sticking | Doors | Interior | This Old House

javadog · 01-10-2014, 08:17 AM

There's a million things that could be wrong but you can clearly see from the photos that the gap on the hinge side is not consistent from top to bottom, so the first place he needs to look is WHY IS THE GAP AT THE UPPER HINGE LARGER?

No need to make this complicated...

JR

Aragorn · 01-10-2014, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadog

There's a million things that could be wrong but you can clearly see from the photos that the gap on the hinge side is not consistent from top to bottom, so the first place he needs to look is WHY IS THE GAP AT THE UPPER HINGE LARGER?

No need to make this complicated...

JR

I also noticed the hinge pin was "walking" (backing out) on the top hinge in the photos. This is usually a sign of hinge fatigue and excessive wear on the components of the hinge and pin causing the pin to back out. Other photos show he is close to the water (moisture) which causes wood to swell as can be seen in the photo with one of the door panels having a paint-wood gap.

I didn't think I was making it too complicated but I thought he should check the basics of the door opening and door itself. Sometimes putting a band-aid on a situation only makes the situation worse. Diagnose the root cause and then act. Not trying to offended or over-complicate things. Only trying to help.

javadog · 01-10-2014, 08:56 AM

I know, I'm not trying to argue. The thing is, he's replacing the door later this year so even if it were an out-of-square or out-of-plumb problem, a bandaid solution is probably justifiable.

I suspect the original problem was related to the hinge screws and his "repair" of that wasn't done correctly. It's possible the hinge jamb is not straight and the lower hinge is fighting the top hinge. Hard to say without being there...

We need to have a rule around here that any poster needs to GET OFF HIS ASS and IMMEDIATELY follow up with our suggestions, so we all have closure.

JR

scottmandue · 01-10-2014, 09:15 AM

Well, some of us have a day job!

The new screws seem to be holding tight, problem is when I replaced the old screws (#6 3/4") with new screws (#8 1-1/4") somehow the door shifted on me (I only changed the screws into the frame and one hinge at a time).

The shift seemed to happen when I changed screws on the bottom hinge so I need to examine it.

However the gap at the top hinge seems excessive so I also need to examine that also.

But I am at work in downtown and the door is 20 miles away... I will update with my findings.

And seriously, thanks for all the ideas/help.

javadog · 01-10-2014, 09:23 AM

If the hinge side of the jamb is not in a straight line and the center of the jamb is bowed out towards the door, then when you tighten the lower hinge screws, it will want to pull the upper hinge screws out. You can also have a similar problem with the door, if it is no longer straight on the hinge side. Either way, 5 minutes with a straightedge (or a good eye) and a screwdriver and you should have a diagnosis.

Work is no excuse, unless you sleep at your office. You can't leave us hanging like this.

JR

scottmandue · 01-10-2014, 10:06 AM

Hey... how many of you guys are engineers?

I surprised none of you have pointed out the obvious... I should just buy a new house.

john70t · 01-10-2014, 11:24 AM

One way to straight-shave a door is to snap/draw a line, then carefully use a handheld belt sander with rough/fine grit.

Once the hinges are fixed, check the gaps and write them down.
If they change due to moisture swelling, the 2x4 framing itself might need to be snugged/tightened up to adjoining studs using 5" screws or inset lag screws.

drcoastline · 01-10-2014, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Well, some of us have a day job!

The new screws seem to be holding tight, problem is when I replaced the old screws (#6 3/4") with new screws (#8 1-1/4") somehow the door shifted on me (I only changed the screws into the frame and one hinge at a time).

The shift seemed to happen when I changed screws on the bottom hinge so I need to examine it.
However the gap at the top hinge seems excessive so I also need to examine that also.

But I am at work in downtown and the door is 20 miles away... I will update with my findings.

And seriously, thanks for all the ideas/help.

To me it is quite obvious the larger screws bit better and pulled the bottom hinge tighter into the jamb. That is why I suggested shimming the bottom jamb first. It will push the hinge back out slightly and open the gap between the door and jamb back up. All the other suggestions would be great if you were keeping the door and trying to ix it correctly. But for a quick fix, who cares if the gap is even?

Loosen the screws throw in a shim or two and retighten. the screws. Done in under a minute.

scottmandue · 01-10-2014, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcoastline

To me it is quite obvious the larger screws bit better and pulled the bottom hinge tighter into the jamb. That is why I suggested shimming the bottom jamb first. It will push the hinge back out slightly and open the gap between the door and jamb back up. All the other suggestions would be great if you were keeping the door and trying to ix it correctly. But for a quick fix, who cares if the gap is even?

Loosen the screws throw in a shim or two and retighten. the screws. Done in under a minute.

I will try that tonight when I get home... that is 6:00PM PST

gduke2010 · gduke2010's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigster59

Glue a toothpick or 2 into each hole and reinstall screws and hinges. Old carpenter's trick.

Yep, that's the trick. You can also, shave a wooden dowel to fit into the screw holes, glue and tap them in. When glue dries, use a sharp chissel to shave the dowel flush. Then position the hinge and pilot out the screw holes and replace the screws.

Don't stip the screws by over tightening.

You can also, use a long screw that screws into the framing in on of the holes in the top hinge.