Fixing my front door, how to?
 

Standing inside the house, the upper right hand corner started rubbing.

Checked the hinges and top one the screws into the door jam were loose, tightened them, ta da! Fixed!

Two days later screws were loose and top corner rubbing again.

So I went to the store and bought screws one size larger, decided I would change out all the hinge screws.

Changed out the top screws, rubbing gone, changed middle and bottom screws, rubbing back. :confused:

Any ideas on how to fix this? New hinges? Hit the rubbing corner with some sandpaper?

Thanks,

Offending corner:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1389283697.jpg

top and bottom hinge:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1389283728.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1389283749.jpg

Yes we need a new front door, but not in the budget until much later in the year.

What I've done in the past is to unscrew one of (or two, if three hinges) hinges and remove material from the door frame - re-install hinges. Or remove hinge(s) and place some paperboard under the hinge(s).
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Got to do this to my front door, as well.
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Edit: I'll be looking at sanding the tightness off the door as well.

yup, shim the bottom out, or shave and plane down the top.


Couple of good whacks with the door jamb where it rubs could help too.

In the colder weather, home shift and shrink/expand more.


Nice green paint at one time.........drip drip.

It's a trial and error fix. obviously when you tighten the bottom hinge it's pulling the door closer to the jamb. Try a thin piece of cardboard or a business card or two between the hinge and jamb. at the bottom. The cardboard will act as a shim. See if that fixes it. If not try the cardboard between the hinge and jamb at the top. It may take few times to get it right. Also, you could sand as you stated. Just be careful you don't want to take to much off you could mess up your seal.

Good luck with the fix.

Sounds like you may have some issues with the jam itself. If the wood is too soft to hold the screws then you going to continue to have issues. If you can support the door in an open position then try to pack the original screw holes with saw dust and wood glue then reinstall the larger screws.

Instead of a larger screw try a longer screw and see if you can get into the framing behind the door jam.

Little bit of elmers on the screw goes a long way, think of it as loctite for wood.

And I'd replace those hinges. They are kind of old and fugly.

Glue a toothpick or 2 into each hole and reinstall screws and hinges. Old carpenter's trick.

Good rule of thumb, you want a nice even gap around the door. From the pictures it looks like your gap is bigger on the hinge side at the top, hence the door is hitting the jamb at the top when closed. You can use bigger screws and pull the top tighter, or shim out the bottom. If you shim out the bottom too much you might now find that you are hitting along the entire jamb when closed, I would personally try pulling in the top hinge. Several things to try:

Make sure all of your hinge screws are getting a good bite and tight on the top hinge.

Remove the top hinge and make sure that the leaves lay flat when closed. If they are bent you can either replace the hinge or just bang them flat with a hammer.

Remove one of the top hinge screws and run a longer screw into its place on the jamb side. Best to use something long enough to hit the stud and get some penetration, and using a power driver will help you get it pulled in. The middle screw is normally towards the center of the jamb, which will help insure that you hit a stud vs sheetrock. If you do this right you should see the jamb move towards the wall, which will pull the opposite top edge of the door away from the jamb.

A lot of great suggestions but, the first thing I'd be doing is checking to see if the jambs are plumb before making any modifications to the door. If the house has shifted and the jambs are no longer plumb, any mods to the door are just band aids.

If the jambs are properly shimmed, I would not expect to be able to pull a jamb in by using a long screw into the stud. Without pictures of the gap at the bottom opening face of the door, one cannot make the call to shim the lower hinge. Might just create a new rub at the bottom edge of the door.

The gap at the top hinge looks pretty big to me... If the jambs are plumb, I'd deepen the jamb, top hinge recess by chiseling out about 1/16 additional material.

That front door is no longer square so its a bit off (shifted at the joint where the rail meets the stiles). Drill a 1/4 hole where the screws go and stick a piece of 1/4 wooden dowel with carpenter glue, let dry for 20 min, and reinstall door, shim (if there are any) if necessary. Hitting the framing is really the key, but the off set hinge screw location may not allow you to tie it to the stud. If it still doesn't fit, you might have to shim out the bottom a little (two business cards) or shave the top of the door. Check the screws that connect the hinge to the door. That seems to be pulling itself apart also from the photo.

Thanks everyone,

The new screws seem to be holding, they are a little longer so they may be hitting the framing.

All screws in the door and jamb seem to be tight at this point.

I will try (in this order) removing the top hinge because yes it does look like it has expanded.

Shiming the bottom hinge.

Sanding the upper corner.

And putting some wood glue on the screws.

Yes, everything is out of square but I need to band aid this until we can get a new door.

Bingo!

Then at least you know your starting point for shimming / chiseling once hinge itself is eliminated as an issue.

if all else fails jack up the house :-)

Any 2x4 stick-built house is prone to settling.

It is easily warped by a heavy roof load(snow), ground settling from when the foundation was built(with yard surface water running into it), or a poorly-designed and unsupported interior structural layout.

A thin box held together by drywall screws.....

boom! you can glue it up in the screw holes & then shut the door. after the door is shut yu can shim the door up plumb with even reveals (the gaps at the jam) around the entire thing, then grab a chair, a beer, & wait for the elmers to dry....:cool:

golf tee works better than toothpicks

Been five hours. Shouldn't it be fixed by now???:D

Pfft... I'm at work not at home... I'm busy specing lighting for the roadrunner exhibit.

The larger screws are the band-aid until the weekend when I can really work on it.

I'm thinking the upper hinge tweaked on me because when I just tightened up the old screws before I added the larger screws the door closed fine... the only reason I went to the larger screws was because the original screws backed out again within 48 hours (then I got the bright idea to change all the screws while I was in there.)

Also, when I changed to the larger screws in the top and middle hinge the door closed OK.

When I added the larger screws to the bottom hinge, that is when things went wonky.

Your door frame is no longer square.
The square door doesn't fit.

Someone used a grinder in the wrong manner, to try to make the thing fit for the time being.
Cobbled.
It was a bad job.
(and yeah, I've been there.)

You need square.
The door frame depends on the integrity of the rest of the house.
Everything else is a temporary fix.

Fix:
Pull the drywall.
Add extra 2x4s next to the door frames, and screw into place.
Add more studs in the center of existing vertical loads.
Screw together. Make as One.

Modern pine is very soft and bends easy.
The length of cuts for these new studs are dependent on the original out-of-square of the structure.

Floors may need to be jacked up, temporarily, to return the square to 'true'.

Add bracing at an angle.

Expect severe drywall cracking.
That is a separate matter to be dealt with later.

Before I contemplated all of that, I'd first answer the question of why the gap at the top hinge is larger. Fix what is causing that and you might be able to ignore everything else until you replace the door.

JR

Zackly!

This is my wood framed house, second floor over a garage, slab foundation on clay and rock. One block from a cliff and the ocean. Yes the ground shifts a wee bit, but it is the price of an ocean view.

I just want the door to work while we save up for a new front door then I will worry about ripping the walls open and all that.

This is a block from my front door:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1389309390.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1389309508.jpg

++ on using either toothpicks and glue or using a pocket knife pull a sliver or 2 out of pine and glue in. WAIT until it's fully set/pre drill a pilot hole and use the next longer size screw as well. Keep in mind that some "wood" screws have a countersink grind on the side of the screw AND modern drywall screws are heat treated and hardened and easily snap. I'd use more of a decking screw or something with a square drive or #3 head.
Also it looks like the hinges could use a replace if they are old. Appear to be 3 1/2 " butt. If replacement later this year just youtube how to and it should go easily without having to remove drywall/jack up the house/ re single and point the chimney as some might think.
Doors are all about how they work and look and not about being perfectly plumb/level. In fact, if you attempt to use a level in both a plumb and level plane in the same project it will not work with the fault built into all levels. Plumb is your friend here

Looks to me that if you take care of the hinging the side gap is going to be as it should be.

Are you sure the top hinge is flush with the hinge pocket. Your second pic appears to have a gap on the door side of the hinge.

Given things were ok before the install of the fatter screws, and the house probably did not settle while you were putting them in, could be an install issue.

Scott, for a Band Aid fix until you get a new door, then just tighten up screws with tooth picks and shave the upper end of that door to make it work. I bet if you lift the door by the lock and you will feel the door move at the hinge. Forget sanding, too messy and takes too long. If you need a borrow a power plane, give me a shout. It will take you about 20 second to straighten that door out. I can take it to you at work. I am 15 minutes away without traffic. This way it may be an excuse to take my kids to the museum.

I use disposable chopsticks from takeout food.

All screws are tight at the door and frame (now)... I suspect the hinge at the top has tweaked. The hinges are all old and appear to be brass.

More investigation is required.

Hinges are usually good and do not tweak. the door is pulling itself away from the frame and gravity is pulling the door itself out of square (jamb is out too I bet). Plane the upper edge of the door so it wouldn't stick until you get a new front door. It should last you for another couple of years.

I would first check the door frame with a level to make sure that it was the door/hinge and not the frame that is out of whack.

Use a level and tape to check the frame opening (measure the gap with a tape at the top, middle and bottom) and place the level on the sides (frame, not the trim) and top of the door frame. If it bubbles out (bubble in middle on sides and top) and the measurement is same at top middle and bottom, then it is the door (swelled) or the hinge (fatugue) that is most likely the problem.

The hinge swap (top to bottom) idea below is a good temporary fix if the hinge is the problem. If the door has swelled, then planing (with a hand plane) the offending area should get the door to close.

How to Stop a Wood Door from Sticking | Doors | Interior | This Old House

There's a million things that could be wrong but you can clearly see from the photos that the gap on the hinge side is not consistent from top to bottom, so the first place he needs to look is WHY IS THE GAP AT THE UPPER HINGE LARGER?

No need to make this complicated...

JR

I also noticed the hinge pin was "walking" (backing out) on the top hinge in the photos. This is usually a sign of hinge fatigue and excessive wear on the components of the hinge and pin causing the pin to back out. Other photos show he is close to the water (moisture) which causes wood to swell as can be seen in the photo with one of the door panels having a paint-wood gap.

I didn't think I was making it too complicated but I thought he should check the basics of the door opening and door itself. Sometimes putting a band-aid on a situation only makes the situation worse. Diagnose the root cause and then act. Not trying to offended or over-complicate things. Only trying to help.:)

I know, I'm not trying to argue. The thing is, he's replacing the door later this year so even if it were an out-of-square or out-of-plumb problem, a bandaid solution is probably justifiable.

I suspect the original problem was related to the hinge screws and his "repair" of that wasn't done correctly. It's possible the hinge jamb is not straight and the lower hinge is fighting the top hinge. Hard to say without being there...

We need to have a rule around here that any poster needs to GET OFF HIS ASS and IMMEDIATELY follow up with our suggestions, so we all have closure. :D

JR

Well, some of us have a day job! :p

The new screws seem to be holding tight, problem is when I replaced the old screws (#6 3/4") with new screws (#8 1-1/4") somehow the door shifted on me (I only changed the screws into the frame and one hinge at a time).

The shift seemed to happen when I changed screws on the bottom hinge so I need to examine it.

However the gap at the top hinge seems excessive so I also need to examine that also.

But I am at work in downtown and the door is 20 miles away... I will update with my findings.

And seriously, thanks for all the ideas/help.

SmileWavy

If the hinge side of the jamb is not in a straight line and the center of the jamb is bowed out towards the door, then when you tighten the lower hinge screws, it will want to pull the upper hinge screws out. You can also have a similar problem with the door, if it is no longer straight on the hinge side. Either way, 5 minutes with a straightedge (or a good eye) and a screwdriver and you should have a diagnosis.

Work is no excuse, unless you sleep at your office. You can't leave us hanging like this.

JR

Hey... how many of you guys are engineers?

:D

I surprised none of you have pointed out the obvious... I should just buy a new house. ;)

One way to straight-shave a door is to snap/draw a line, then carefully use a handheld belt sander with rough/fine grit.

Once the hinges are fixed, check the gaps and write them down.
If they change due to moisture swelling, the 2x4 framing itself might need to be snugged/tightened up to adjoining studs using 5" screws or inset lag screws.

To me it is quite obvious the larger screws bit better and pulled the bottom hinge tighter into the jamb. That is why I suggested shimming the bottom jamb first. It will push the hinge back out slightly and open the gap between the door and jamb back up. All the other suggestions would be great if you were keeping the door and trying to ix it correctly. But for a quick fix, who cares if the gap is even? :confused:

Loosen the screws throw in a shim or two and retighten. the screws. Done in under a minute.

I will try that tonight when I get home... that is 6:00PM PST ;)

Yep, that's the trick. You can also, shave a wooden dowel to fit into the screw holes, glue and tap them in. When glue dries, use a sharp chissel to shave the dowel flush. Then position the hinge and pilot out the screw holes and replace the screws.

Don't stip the screws by over tightening.

You can also, use a long screw that screws into the framing in on of the holes in the top hinge.