VW workers vote out UAW from TN plant

[Nickshu]

Wow...the beginning of the end for UAW?? Very interesting trend?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/business/volkswagen-workers-reject-forming-a-union.html?_r=0

[J P Stein]

One foot on a banana peel & one foot in Detroit....pick you poison.
The banana peel looks pretty good.

[azasadny]

I think they remembered why the plant was located in TN in the 1st place...

[HardDrive]

I think the old UAW is certainly on life support.

But who knows about the future. They have work councils in the EU for a reason. It helps the company, not just the workers. Perhaps there can be a transformation.

Would I bet money on it? No. I would give firm odds against it.

[black73]

Considering that East Tennessee has been very strongly Republican since Lincoln invented the internet, and that the Republican Party has openly declare war on ALL labor unions, with their, Grover Norquist's, and all the corporate world's billions of dollars of outside influence money primary target being the UAW, the fact that it was as close as it was is a surprise.

That being said, still not good for the UAW.

[Rick V]

Yeah but VW wants the UAW there
VW works council says will pursue labor representation at U.S. plant | Reuters

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by black73

Considering that East Tennessee has been very strongly Republican since Lincoln invented the internet, and that the Republican Party has openly declare war on ALL labor unions, with their, Grover Norquist's, and all the corporate world's billions of dollars of outside influence money primary target being the UAW, the fact that it was as close as it was is a surprise.

That being said, still not good for the UAW.

Way to PARF it up egbert.
There's already a thread on this in PARF, why couldn't you post your BS there?

[black73]

Take your pill and a nap, sambo.

[BeyGon]

[QUOTE=black73;7914238]Take your pill and a nap, sambo.[/QUOTE]

now that's racist, I guess it's just the way leftists are,

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Way to PARF it up egbert.
There's already a thread on this in PARF, why couldn't you post your BS there?

These facts are already in the articles posted and opposing views expressed in this thread are already documented.

Sammy just say you don't agree and move on.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/16/us-vw-chattanooga-idUSBREA1F0A920140216

Some experts contend that VW needs a labor union in the United States to help set up a works council in Chattanooga, where it builds the mid-sized Passat Sedan.

"We were able to garner support from highly specialized U.S. labor law experts and we will start consulting with them in the next two weeks to define further steps," Kilian said.

Sounds to me like VW is going to get a labor represented "works council" in there one way or another.

I don't think even Grover Norquist can stop a group of Germans with a set agenda in mind.

This was just one battle in a war.

VW, Grover Norquist, and the Future of American Unions
By Rana Foroohar Feb. 14, 2014
http://business.time.com/2014/02/14/vw-grover-norquist-and-the-future-of-american-unions/

I’ve been watching this story for a few weeks now, and I think it has major implications for the future of unionization and labor relations in America. For decades now, the number of union members in this country has been falling. (Currently only 11 % of U.S workers belong to a union, according to BLS statistics.) That’s unusual for a rich country—union penetration in Europe is much higher, and the relationship between unions and management is different. It’s less contentious, and more collaborative. In places like Germany, labor actually sits on the board of companies and helps make strategic decisions about how plants and even entire corporations are run, which is one reason that Germany was able to retool so quick and grab market share following the 2008 financial crisis and global recession in 2009. Read my colleague Michael Schuman’s excellent piece on that topic..................................

It’s too bad, because the truth is that there’s little evidence that the anti-union manufacturing model (exemplified by companies like Nissan) works better than the unionized one, particularly when it incorporates Germanic work councils. VW actually credits the system with making it the largest and richest auto firm in the world. What’s more, the workers I’ve spoken with in Chattanooga say they are less interested in pay hikes than in having some say over which cars get made in the factory, what sorts of training programs they’ll have access to, etc. I’ll be reporting out this story further for my column this week. For more about what it’s likely to mean for labor, management, and the U.S. economy, check out the latest episode of WNYC’s Money Talking, where Joe Nocera and I discussed the topic.

[9dreizig]

Kachi, my understanding is that US law prohibits a council unless a union is present.. That's the only reason that the VW management supported them. getting lot's of pressure from the unions in Germany

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Kachi, my understanding is that US law prohibits a council unless a union is present.. That's the only reason that the VW management supported them. getting lot's of pressure from the unions in Germany

I agree (see the first quote in post #10), and the misunderstanding of the UAW's role in the VW plant was funded by millions of outside dollars.

VW will get it's "works council" one way or another, mark my words.

[9dreizig]

the problem Kach, is that the UAW doesn't give a $hit about a works council ,, they want the union dues...

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

the problem Kach, is that the UAW doesn't give a $hit about a works council ,, they want the union dues...

That is your opinion, in my opinion they wanted a "win" in the south so they can continue to pretend to be relevant in today's changing world.

The dues from one plant isn't going to make a whole lot of difference to their coffers, the planting of a union seed this deep in the south would be a huge thing culturally.

The symbolism here is the south is still the south.

I bet that fierce southern independence made many a VW worker unhappy with the outsiders like Norquist trying to influence them.

The backlash has yet to be felt, the vote was close enough to encourage a continued battle at least from the inside of VW.

[9dreizig]

Yup they wanted that too!!!
Also missed here is exactly why they wanted card check,, tougher to intimidate an anonymous vote..

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Yup they wanted that too!!!
Also missed here is exactly why they wanted card check,, tougher to intimidate an anonymous vote..

I just looked up what a card check is, the signing of one's name to a vote. Some fear that can used as data collection pool for intimation of individuals later.

This is different than the anonymous secret ballot we are used to in general elections and primaries.

I don't think I like the idea of a "card check", and neither did state officials when they forbid it in state law back in 2011.

It looks as though this law has gone unchallenged in the courts as it conflicts with federal law.

Looks like this chess game has been going on for quite a while before it hit the national stage.

[cairns]

The symbolism here is the south is still the south.

I bet that fierce southern independence made many a VW worker unhappy with the outsiders like Norquist trying to influence them.

The backlash has yet to be felt, the vote was close enough to encourage a continued battle at least from the inside of VW.

Says the boy from Michigan- the state the unions have brought to bankruptcy and whose population has declined while it's tax base dwindled and it's unemployment numbers went through the roof.

Being a Southerner myself I suspect differently. Perhaps the UAW ought to start selling what people actually want to buy.

The elitist "blame the Republicans/Gorver Norquist BS" is exactly what would cause a worker in that plant to vote non union- obviously some of you (and obviously Mr. King) think they're too stupid to think for themselves. It's also why the union continues to lose members every day. The UAW had every advantage, and then some, in this election. And they still lost.

Maybe the workers figured the union isn't going to get them a better salary, that they're going to take money away from what they already make and they're going spend it on things most of those workers don't support. Maybe the workers realized that the UAW is going to continue to enrich their own management- most of whom make salaries which put them squarely in the "1%" bracket- and give away more money to any politician who will give them the upper hand. And maybe those workers thought you know, I make good money, I have great working conditions, I'm proud of what I do and a I've got a solid future- what in the sam heck do I need the UAW for?

But, yeah blame the Republicans. And Grover Norquist. And conveniently forget that another politician tried putting his hand on the scale.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by black73

Considering that East Tennessee has been very strongly Republican since Lincoln invented the internet, and that the Republican Party has openly declare war on ALL labor unions, with their, Grover Norquist's, and all the corporate world's billions of dollars of outside influence money primary target being the UAW, the fact that it was as close as it was is a surprise.

That being said, still not good for the UAW.

To quote my buddies who work there:
"I already have great pay and benefits. Why should I pay the union for something I already have?"

This has nothing to do with the politics of the people. To quote a former POTUS "Its the economy, stupid". (disclaimer: I am not calling anyone stupid).

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by cairns

Says the boy from Michigan- the state the unions have brought to bankruptcy and whose population has declined while it's tax base dwindled and it's unemployment numbers went through the roof...........

Check your numbers again, Michigan is the comeback state.

No one was going to be able to buy a new car without credit, do you do remember the fall of the banking industry in 2008? It was world wide, made all the papers.

The auto companies nor it's unions were the cause. They were victims of Wall Street deregulation and greed, just as we all were.

The one percent failed us, and never forget it. It was the middle-class which bailed them out, at least that's who's going to pick up the tab for the next several generations.

Originally Posted by cairns

But, yeah blame the Republicans. And Grover Norquist. And conveniently forget that another politician tried putting his hand on the scale.

........................another politician tried putting his hand on the scale??????

What?

Who?

Please explain.

[330]

It is not just about pay and benefits, as that is the old, classical union scheme. This would have been joint discussions and some degree of co-management. That is what our Asian and German competition is doing.