Neighbor using some of my land
 

Looking for opinions so I dont do the wrong thing.

Over the weekend, I noticed the neighbor working on a piece of land that belongs to me. He was digging a trench installing some street lights and a spot light. The property borders his property, and looks like it should belong to him, but doesnt. I personally doubt I will ever need or use the land, but I am paying taxes on it. Not sure what I should do.

There is a nice stone garden at the entrance to my driveway, which is on the disputed property. Not sure who built it, PO or him. If I ever wanted to put up a real gated entrance, I would need that land.

This is the only neighbor that I dont really get along with. Not sure why, but they always turn away when they see me so they dont have to wave.

Looked up adverse possession in TN. He has to prove he is maintaining the land for 7 years. Not sure if he can prove that. I recently bought the property, maybe 2 years ago.

Red is my property line, yellow is what they are using:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1393862417.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1393862432.jpg

I think first step is talking to him and seeing what he thinks.
But not sure which route to take after that.

What would YOU do?

I would do whatever is needed to make sure he stops what he's doing right now.

I don't know the law in the US but locally we can lodge complaints or disputes like this with our local council.
They would send an inspector out and make a determination.

In your case it's pretty clear what's going on. You could try approaching him but I don't fancy your chances.

Talk to him first. I had a similar siutation when new neighbor moved in next door--he cut down a bunch of lilacs which he thought were on his property. I introduced myself, showed him the lilacs he cut, where the property line is(still staked from when I had it surveyed years before he moved in). He apologized, I told him no big deal and we both live in harmony.

That neighbor may not know that slice is your land. I would talk face to face and have a copy of the property map for reference just in case it is needed. But, see what his intentions are first--could just be an honest mistake.

Talking usually helps, but make sure you take back what belongs to you. You never know what's going to happen in the future, gate to not.

You need to get him to stop right now.

Don't allow him the adverse possession option.

If he is already unfriendly this is a real possibility.

If you don't think you'll use it then offer to sell it to him, (if you can subdivde that small a piece).

Why would you give it away?

And what are the potential liabilities for you when his street light falls over and injures someone or blinds a driver coming down the street causing an accident?

Friendly chat followed up with a registered letter to have a formal record.

Mending Wall by Robert Frost

"Good fences make good neighbors".

Talk to him.

I guess you always lease it to him for little to no money if you don't care or at least the amount of the land value that you pay in taxes.

Any improvements he makes you retain if the lease ever expires or you decide not to renew.

You'd probably want to offer him more than a yearly lease, 5-10 years at a time?

Check with your lawyer on the liability issue if you lease it to him.

Thanks guys. So all in favor of a conversation and an official followup, with the intention of me keeping the land.

Here is another view from the beginning of my driveway.
His is the worse (worst?) house in the 'hood.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1393864400.jpg

Seems to me if you know he is installing electrical on your property... you have tacitly agreed if you say/do nothing. Not only run risk of adverse possession, but also a lawsuit if he hurts himself on your property. Maybe there is a problem with conflicting surveys (a mistake of some sort) that needs sorting out...as that visually appears to be part of his lot by the way it is landscaped.

Just shoot him for trespassing.

+1

My dad missed when he put in the driveway to his place. Neither the land owner or my dad realized for over 20 years. Upon realizing, went over for some tea with the lady, discussed it all, and worked it out.

i would do some improvements of my own on that piece of land. let him come to you.

Talk to him first and find his side of the situation. If he is argumentative, I'd check with your local municipality/county - around here, work as he is doing would very likely require a permit.
They should be able to get the work stopped and also assist in "reinforcing" the property lines.

My neighbor in NY had planted a line of evergreens just inside his side of the property line. Sometime later he put up a fence but he had planted the trees too close to the line so had to put the fence further into his property giving the impression that the trees were part of our property.

This all happened 20 years before we bought the house.

The trees were huge, easily 40+ footers. the lower branches extended a good 10-15 ft onto out property and they started a couple of feet off the ground. Made a part of our yard unusable.

I was talking to him over the fence one day and my wife comes out and mentions we were considering cutting the trees which he interpreted as cutting them down. I cringed because I knew they were his trees. He stammered "you can't do that they are on my property".

I quickly responded we love the trees, one of the things we liked about the house so they were going no where. We just want to remove the lower branches up to 8-9 ft from the ground so we can use that part of the yard.

His response was, "let me know if you need help".

He was a good guy, great neighbor. Helped that he was a car guy. Big into Jeeps so we were always helping each other wrench on projects and sharing tools.

When we sold the house I made sure any potential buyer was well aware of the property line before we did the deal.

Be polite and talk to him. Good neighbors are important.

I'm sorry, but I have a healthy distrust of unfriendly neighbors who display avoidance. If he's shown he isn't interested in talking to you, why should you go out of your way to talk to him or be negotiative? In the end, the best thing to do is notify him in writing where the property line is, state you intend to have the option of using that portion to construct a gate or some other structure, and tell him to Immediately remove anything of his currently on that portion of your property he wants to keep and return the land to its prior condition if he has done alterations. If he's not friendly in the first place, he's not going to be more friendly down the line. You can get a map showing property lines from your County, and I would include one (annotated showing the portion you are referring to) with the registered letter you send. If you want to spend a little bit of money, have an attorney send the documentation and letter as additional record of your statement. I quit feeling I was obligated to suck up to unfriendly people who show no regard for me, my family, or property a long time ago. It never does any good.

mark your property line
plant bushes or a line of rocks

there should be a pipe set at all changes in a property line direction
so where the yellow line starts to the right of way on the red line at the southwest corner of 3.07

remember the right of way is NOT your property
your map shows the west property line as strait but the right of way shows curved
so a small bit of the triangle is right of way

where are the light poles and cable trench located ?

My biggest worry would be a lawsuit. If he does something stupid and hurts himself or someone else, how long would it take for a lawyer to find out the land is yours?

Sad fact but you got to protect yourself. Talk with him but make it clear any work is to stop right now.

just three words: BABY POO YELLOW!

If you have never talked to the guy write him a note. Keep it simple.

"Hi, saw you working on the corner piece of my property this last weekend. Enclosed is a copy of my property survey which shows where the property lines are. Didn't want you spend a bunch of time and money on property that isn't yours. If you want to talk about this give me a call." Name & phone number.

As to adverse possession in TN. He has to prove he is maintaining the land for 7 years, but wouldn't the land have to be abandoned while he maintained it? It you owned it and payed taxes on it you maintained it? Not a lawyer and don't know the laws down there, just asking.

something isn't right here,what is the angle?

Be firm and make sure your neighbor is well aware of the lot lines, He might be making a play for your land. I bought a piece of property that had just over 3 acres in the heart of a small village. The buildings were right on main st, and backed up a hill to homes, with a driveway that wound up the hill to another street. One day I here some equipment running on the top of the hill so I take a walk up to the top to check it out. One of the neighbors decides to remove the driveway up to the top and clear some of the land for fill for the drive he just removed! The asshat neighbor was once the mayor, until all the racketeering charges stuck and was convinced under the RICO act. Told the guy on the backhoe he had three hours to repair to original and reseed the grass or the two of them could be cell mates for the night. Next asshat and another neighbor had been cutting the grass on my property by about 75 feet, for a few years while the property was being foreclosed on . I wrote both a certified letter stating that they had my permission to continue to cut the grass, but was not giving up any rights or ownership and that they could not park,plant or build anything on said land and that they did the mowing at their own cost and risk. As soon as they both got the letter, they stopped cutting the grass. Found out later they had been cutting that much extra for almost six years, and my letter set the clock back to zero for them to make a play on the property. So now they call the town and complain that I am not cutting the grass! Since it can't be seen from main st. I don't have to, so tell the town guy to go up and explain that to the both of them. Then I found out one of them has his hidden dog fence on my land by 60 feet when his dog bites my son when he was snow boarding down the hill. The guy tries saying my son was aggravating his dog and instigated the attack. But when I get up there, from the foot prints I could tell my son was no where near his lot line. Went back got a shovel and cut the line at the lot line and called the cops. This all happened in the first few months of owning the property. Once they were put in their place and taught that they only have control of what they own. I had no more issues with them.

NO.

+1 on the face to face neighbor talk. Like real people.

Face to face is the only way to handle this. If he does not care or won't talk to you then you ramp up the effort.

Yup, go have a beer with him or something. You might find he's a nice guy but not real social. If he's a dick in that situation, then resort to letters, surveys, etc.

You want a difficult situation? We got brand new neighbors last year who had a baby shortly after moving in. The baby had some medical issues so they were forced to leave town for treatment, it was short notice so we volunteered to watch their house. While they were gone, a fence company came out to put in a back yard fence on their lot. The fence company ignored the survey posts and put the fence about 1' on our side of the yard, and destroyed several sprinkler heads in the process. They also did a piss poor job, the fence was crooked and looked like hell. Before I had a chance to talk with them about the fence, their baby died. So in that situation, should I send a letter?

Ultimately the fence company dealt directly with us (with their blessing), we insured that the fence was built correctly and in the right place. They took off and left my broken sprinkler heads so I fixed those myself, and never said a word to the neighbors. They had enough to deal with.

If he does not say hello, maybe he is socially "backwards". And I bet he does not know it is your land. I would make an effort to talk to him face to face. If he is not willing to talk I would get a lawyer involved. No sense dealing with it personally if the guy is going to get weird.

I'm a little surprised if Tenn. still has adverse possession (AP). Most states have gotten rid of it - it is a common law doctrine and may not be in the state statutes. Abandonment is not required in the sense most people think of it. Also, he will usually get an easement not full title.

Yes, go talk to him first. But you absolutely must not rely on any oral agreements. You want to send him a letter and be sure you can prove he got it, which means Certified or Registered mail.

You can grant him a license to run his ditch without charging him anything and that kills any AP claims.

You need to hire a local attorney.

Road frontage land is valuable should you want to subdivide. So don't take any risks that may cause you to lose this bit. The guy is an ***hole and just trying it on hoping that you will be so soft that you do nothing. Again, polite but firm.

There it is. I'd do a quick fly-by with the good neighbor schtick then get serious. It is land, not a Cotillion.

I have a beach that abuts with my neighbors property. He is a great guy, we do business together all the time: LLC's, etc. His kids play on my beach and he uses it for kiting, etc.

So we spell out usage, insurance, who does what to whom without rancor, have a usage signed agreement. Only way to go.

Not sure how a fire truck or a dump truck with a pup trailer would ever make that corner.

I'm thinking that is why it was originally plotted that way. Just a guess.

I'd be talking with him doing some scrapping, leveling and making a nice broad corner.

Some great advice so far......

I can only remind you that you only have the opportunity to make a first impression once so make sure you bring the right vehicle for that very special moment:

http://www.flyingheritage.com/images...rmanTank01.jpg

And after further review, that road looks like it would be an easement to both the properties, even though they are both owned held by you, it was still plotted that way. Usually, 30 feet on both sides of the property line on each property.

He knows what he is taking

I disagree. Assuming neighbor hasn't met the statutory guidlines for adverse possession, a certified or registered letter will defeat any future claim.

You need to find the survey monuments.

eh???

I also would not rely on nolo instead of an attorney

I am an attorney, as you well know. And I have litigated several adverse possession cases. NOLO just happens to have a useful chart that accurately lists all the state statutes.

Personally, I would rely on NOLO for legal advice before I would rely on you. :rolleyes:

Go talk to him, ASAP

Don't even let it get started.

The neighbor almost certainly doesn't realize he's on someone else's property. Why would he? Here's what to do in situations like this. You go over and let him know that it is your property, but that you have no problem with him using it. You just need an agreement in place that reflects that it is your property but that you have given him use of it. Then you extend a license to use the property. The license is revocable upon your demand and is not transferable. That way the land stays the way it is, the neighbor gets to use it while it makes sense, you get to take it back when and if you need it, and there is no danger of losing the property to adverse possession.

What MRM said.

Or, offer to sell it to him at fair market price.
Good for you and good for him.