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Dragster Question
What kind of rear ends are used ?
If they are turning all kinds if RPM and a 1000 and more HP it gets interesting ( to me) With dragster type tall tires they must use really low gears...?.. |
Strange Engineering and Chrisman Driveline. 12 or 12.5 inch, 3:20 ratio. They can't run a higher ratio, per the rules.
JR |
When you say "dragster" are you referring to T/F (Top Fuel - nitro) - T/A (Top alcohol - alcohol) ?
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If it's 1000 hp, prolly super gas or super comp class.
A buddy who works in my shop races a supercomp dragster with 1004 hp from a NA big block chebby. Super comp: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396533959.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396533979.jpg Here's his super gas car: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396534026.jpg |
Depending then on what class / designation the vehicle is competing in. Basically if there is not a specified type in the class most guys run a 'fab' (fabricated) rear based on Ford 9" unit. The fab rears are very lightweight and very strong made out of sheet steel.
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Don't know about now, but when I was covering door-car racing more than a decade ago, a Ford nine-inch was the most common starting point.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS55vq2FIMHFCTwshyCurVN0qlXQko2u CkHw9G-LGC1b9Ca1b_Eiw |
The final drive ratio is also affected by the growth of the slicks. TF/FC tires start out at 36" and grow to 44" through the lights...
(Somebody smarter than me will have to figure out THAT math....) Fun Fact! TF/FC motors are pushing 10,000 horsepower these days, and it takes 1000 of those horsepower just to spin that great big supercharger..... Amazing machines. |
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Dated, but still interesting:
TOP FUEL DRAGSTER FAST FACTS ACCELERATION PUT INTO PERSPECTIVE * One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 8 rows at the Daytona 500. * Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced. * A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to merely drive the dragster's supercharger. * With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. * At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitro methane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F. (gasoline stoichiometric is around 14.7 to 1) * Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases. * Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder. * Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. * If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. * Dragsters reach over 300 MPH before you have completed reading this sentence. * In order to exceed 300 MPH in 4.5 seconds, dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4 G's. In order to reach 200 MPH well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8 G's. * Top Fuel engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! * Including the burnout, the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load. * The redline is actually quite high at 9500 RPM. * THE BOTTOM LINE: Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, & for once, NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated $1,000 per second. Putting this all into perspective: Lets say the you are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged & ready to launch down a quarter-mile strip as you pass by it. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line & pass the dragster at an honest 200 MPH. Just as you pass the Top Fuel Dragster the 'tree' goes green for both of you. The dragster launches & starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums & within 3 seconds the dragster catches & passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter-mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it - from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 MPH & not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race! That's acceleration! •From a stand still, a Top Fuel dragster accelerates to 100 mph in .7 seconds (That is 11 seconds faster than a Porsche 911 Turbo). They can also exceed 280 mph in 660 feet. Thats just down the block. •Imagine looking at the EPA fuel economy ratings for the purchase of your next car and instead of it reading somewhere in the average 20 miles per gallon, it says .05 miles per gallon. A Top Fuel dragster can down 10-12 gallons of fuel per complete run (including burnout) Just look at the bright side. You would rack up a ton of bonus points on your credit card…remember nitromethane costs about $32 per gallon. Depending on size and angle, the large rear wing on an NHRA Top Fuel dragster develops between 4,000 and 8,000 pounds of downforce. The 17-inch rear tires used on NHRA Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars wear out after four to six runs, or about two miles. Some brands of passenger-car tires are guaranteed for 80,000 miles. It takes just 15/100ths of a second for all horsepower of an NHRA Top Fuel dragster engine to reach the rear wheels. |
^^^
It would be fun to hear Barney Fife reading those dragster facts in his "wise teacher" voice. Is there an app for that? |
If you've never been to a top fuel NHRA event you must go at least once in your lifetime. Its nothing like watching it on TV.
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Sammy quote-
* Top Fuel engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! That one is amazing. And think about the energy from each cylinder explosion! |
Be sure you get to the pits for a few of the TF/FC warmups. It's fun to watch the crowd jump at throttle blips. You feel it in your chest, and your eyes and nose burn and run from the fumes.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wLksiclGe78?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Good times. (Weird irony, I've seen more small kids with unprotected ears at these events than any other motorsport event I've ever been to - and no racing motor could possibly do more damage to ears than that of TF/FC motors) |
Trying to explain the sight, smell and feel of a top fuel dragster going full out is like trying to explain a orgasm to someone that has never had one. :)
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I have full access to the pits and can run my own car down the strip whenever they call the street tire class, usually 4-5 times on a busy Summer night, all for $15. Lots of alcohol dragsters present, and occasionally a T/F low budget outfit. |
I've had the fortune to be invited to the starting line once. Standing right between the top fuel cars, just a little further back than the starter and christmas tree.
When the cars took off, one left a little late and the pressure wave from the exhaust of the first car threw me off balance so I leaned one way and then got blown the other way until I nearly landed on my butt. Of course they all got a big laugh out of it. I don't believe safety regs would allow anyone to stand there today. Mert littlefield told me a story of how one time a driver in a dragster hit the throttle before the car was staged and Mert was standing right next to it. As the car went by him (but did not touch him) the exhaust ripped his shirt into two pieces with one part floating away and the other dangling off his wrist. The amount of energy involved is very difficult to put into perspective. |
I'm a total grease monkey and would love to watch the crew break those monsters down in between runs!!! When I go to races, the action in the pits and/or in the garage is often more entertaining for me than the actual race!
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Sand-man..it will simply blow you away..
you must go and as stated ... get up front and watch the run ups.. then get close to the starting line.. the power and smell is unreal and on a TV makes little sense.. like Sammy I've been on the line .... unbelievable... Rika |
Even if you were completly deaf you would be able to feel the ground move when TF cars launch.
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LOL..
I am almost... folks were telling get some protection... I countered by removing my aids.. and this were I normally hear little or squat... oh boy... I was literally vibrating when he launched.. and definitely hearing the nuke that just went of.. Rika |
Ok, thanx for all the info!
I thought they would have to run a truly low geared ratio with tall tires and that high RPM |
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But the whole time the power is on, the rear tires are spining faster than the fronts. If they were going the same speed under powe, they'd likely experience wheel hop and violent vibration as the tire coiled and uncoiled. If the tire slip is too great, the rear tires will go up in smoke big time. The magic amount of slip varies from track to track but it's usually between 10 and 20% tire slip. LOL, 320 mph through the lights, 6000# of down force from the wing, parachutes are starting to come out, and the back tires are still leaving two lines from spinning. Hit of the throttle tire coil: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396561399.jpg At the lights just getting out of the throttle: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396561599.jpg Spooled up just right: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396563809.jpg |
H.S.
there is a lot of science to this! |
Science? The crew chief adjusts the car to the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere - measured in grains! And that's just one parameter. Track temp, air temp, wind, track adhesion, the list is long and varied, and all of the adjustments affect the other adjustments....
There is more horsepower BY FAR on tap than the track can ever take. The crew chief on one of these monsters has to be incredibly smart and creative to be successful and is at least as important as the driver. |
I've stood 3ft from an F1 car doing a standing start, on the pit wall during the Monaco race, watched a F1 inshore powerboat race from the inside of the circuit, watched Le Mans from half way down the Mulsanne straight, watched a Class 1 offshore powerboat pass at 150mph from a few hundred feet away, watched Group B rally cars
These experiences were all very impressive which I'll never forget but are all were very tame in comparison to watching a top fueler run a 1/4 mile. After watching my first run I felt I'd been turned inside out from the pressure wave and noise. I was also so glad I hadn't taken my 4yr old son as I think he would have had a big accident in his pants. For me no other motorsport comes remotely close |
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It's almost impossible to control that much energy safely: Quote:
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I feel like I have been hiding under a freakin' rock. This stuff is all new to me. I am truly blown away. Whenever I channel surfed and stumbled onto a televised NHRA event, I always stopped to watch. I missed the NHRA Gatornationals in FL, but there is an event at the Charlotte Motor Speedway this month, that I'm gonna try and see. It's only about three hours from me:
NHRA Deals | Dragway | Charlotte Motor Speedway |
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I would let these guys perform open heart surgery on me:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6AdSyxLKXvI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
Lane Automotive Noise Fest 2013 - YouTube
turn it up and enjoy |
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I've heard "Daaaaad! Did you see that?" countless times in the stands and it still makes me smile! (4 might be just a touch too young for the pros, but there's always the Nostalgia tour where the cars from the '70's and '80's race. A little less thunder and hoofbeats, but still a hoot!) |
I guess things have changed a bunch since the '60s. After I got out of the Army, I worked at a place where the owner raced dragsters, funny cars, and drag boats under the name "Mister Ed." I was lucky enough to be invited to hang around and help the crew out at races sometimes. They never tore down their engines. Chrysler supplied him with engines. A guy named Keith Black did the mods on them. He'd send the engines in crated up, we'd put them in the car/boat, etc. and race it. Afterwards, we'd take the engine out, crate it up & send it back to Keith.
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This is a camera shot from rear view of a top alcohol dragster. it puts the acceleration into perspective, even though an alcohol dragstersis slow compared to top fuel.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bMzXj0SJInk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Fr5yFIOKIyU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
While on the topic, if anyone is interested I have available a very large Budweiser prop autographed by the 'Bud King' Kenny Bernstein. Been stashed away for years. This is a full size stand-up heavy stock cardboard Budweiser promotional piece from 1993.
Neat piece of NHRA history for someone's cave. Bernstein signed it in 1993 in regards to being the first in top fuel breaking the 300 mph - 1/4 mile on March 20, 1992. (Also in 1992, Kenny Bernstein owned the Quaker State Lola-Buick that Roberto Guerrero qualified on the pole with a four-lap, 10-mile average speed of 232.482 mph, then an Indianapolis Motor Speedway track record.) He had a 30 year relationship with Budweiser. Not only having an incredible career in NHRA, he was also a team owner in NASCAR and CART. Kenny Bernstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://www.kennybernstein.com//newsite/pages/kenny.htm Prop has the back support for floor stand or just hang. Lower is partially faded and the bend marks are from being folded. Sorry for the glare from flash. It's designed to be folded for shipment. I'll make it worthwhile. PM if interested. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396814566.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396814582.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396814617.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396814633.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396814647.jpg |
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I was setting it up with Enderle alky injection on a tunnel ram to get the power down.
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A buddy of mine's son recently won the top fuel dragster national championship.
my buddy used to help set up the jr. dragsters for Langdon, lucas, brown, Todd, etc. I get all the good inside gossip ;) |
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