Should've bought an air-cooled 911, HD! ;)

Tough question. One way of thinking is do what you love and you'll find a way to make a living at it. My wife followed that and is happy. Another way of thinking is if what you love can be a hobby, find a way to make enough money to support your hobby (closer to what I've done, and why I switched from music to chemistry in college). I'm reasonably happy at the moment, but my wife and I are seriously considering moving once my son is out of college since even though between the two of us we make good money, we aren't really able to get ahead and start to taper off the "day job" part of things. Cost of living is a huge factor.

Bottom line is that if people learn to live within their means, the numbers don't really matter. Things expand or contract as necessary. Happiness comes from other places in first-world countries.

Make enough to be happy plus 25%...how much that is depends on the person.

I put together, for her to see, budgets for a single young person to live minimum, modest, moderate and good lifestyles in Portland.

I added the costs of various things like computer, internet, camera, iPhone, TV, air tickets, cars, etc - she knows what clothes, lunch, etc cost. I added the average income at various educational levels, plus the potential earnings of a barista.

This was a bit of an eye opener for me. I concluded that:
- A minimum lifestyle for a young person(share a crummy apartment w/ a roommate, drive a $3000 used car or use carshare, frugal eating and very little entertainment, any larger purchase is at Goodwill, no savings) costs about $24K/yr in pretax income.
- A modest lifestyle (share a 2 bdrm apartment, cheap used car, more entertainment, some scope for buying things, save a little bit) is $46K/yr.
- A moderate lifestyle (a nice apartment of one's own, a new car, more entertainment, can make some larger purchases and take the occasional trip, plus save several thousand/yr) is $67K.
- And a good lifestyle (own a small house or a nice condo, new $30K car, travel, saving for retirement and rainy day) is $100K.
- All scenarios included at least minimal health insurance and the appropriate taxes.

Again, this is for a young person, single income household, no kids, in a city that I'm told is slightly on the expensive side but not Manhattan or San Francisco.

My daughter did what she felt was "Helping People"

Degree from a private college in Cognitive Science
Masters in Urban Planning AND
Masters in Environmental Science.

2 years and no job in her field(s)

The problem is that it might get a lot more expensive in her lifetime to live the way that you do now.

Think of the difference in what it cost your parents in the 1960s or '70s to be upper middle class compared to now. And it's going up, not down.

It's a lot cheaper to be in a small town/rural setting but that would depress me. Being broke and stressing over the rent or mortgage is the depth of misery, IMO. Surpassed only by being severely ill.

You're right, but I didn't want to overwhelm her with numbers, just to give her some data to reach conclusions about how employable a career needs to be to be called a career.

She thinks far more - about this but about many other things. also - than I did at her age. The risk in her case is probably overthinking rather than thoughtlessness.

Edit: The point I was trying to make to her was that quite a large number of potential fields are likely to make her "enough" money if her expectations are to start at the "modest" level. I want her to be thinking about what fields are employable, but not feel the need to seek the most lucrative ones.

[QUOTE=jyl;

She thinks far more - about this but about many other things. also - than I did at her age. The risk in her case is probably overthinking rather than thoughtlessness.[/QUOTE]


There is something to be said for "overthinking", especially with regard to young people, decision making and long term financial health.

I think that just about anyone who picks a solid career path (one that causes you to earn a steady income vs. one that makes you feel good) and makes an effort to avoid major screw ups (choosing a private college/taking on tuition debt/buying and then insuring an expensive car/living alone in an apartment instead of sharing with roommates/taking expensive vacations/buying expensive clothes, purses.shoes/and on and on and on..) can make a comfortable way for themselves in the United States.

Being clever and lucky also helps with the money vs. happiness balance.

It's a moving target. No one starts out making what they feel is the ultimate income (unless they married for money or are the owners daughter).

I tended to do it the other way. I did work that I didn't like and used the (very good) money to buy happiness. It certainly worked for me.

Most of the people I grew up with who "followed their dreams" are pretty miserable. They are frustrated artists working at Starbucks or "entrepreneurs" still borrowing money from their parents. Turns out that whatever your dream is, it's probably the same dream job for another 10 million people.

My advice is to figure out what you're good at and do that. When you're good at your job, people around you are happy with your work, you enjoy constant positive feedback and you create life options.

I know a few surgeons who aren't terribly gifted. They are a little afraid every time they operate. Constant stress. Constant fear of failure. They are truly miserable.

Figure out what you're really good at. The happiness will follow.

That about sums it up.

So just today the family ranch, acquired in the forties , interesting history - nice older home, extra large 6 car garage, plus another 3 car detached, large barn deteriorating but with beautiful beam structure, small barn, another 90x100 machinery barn is getting the wrecking ball.

Sad but reality. Sure it was all older structures on comfortable acreage, (enough for a large full size race course + hunting grounds + a few pro golf courses) but whacked out county taxes made it a joke. A county so screwed up and can't handle important needs but for the public sector pensions yet crazy flush with money for forest preserves. Might as well let them have their parks and blow the taxpayers hard earned money. Life moves on.

So how does demolishing the house and other structures help with the tax bill? By lowering the value of your property??

Get her to make gobs of money. Then remind her of her honor to support your retired ass:)


Sent via Jedi mind trick.

At this point in my life, I think "enough to live and pay my bills and just a little more" seems like enough money.

I live fairly frugally and I've had some lucky breaks along the way.

:(

Here is my answer: $45k per person. $90k to support a couple. $125k with one child.
This is an average. In some areas it will be lots of money, in other areas it will be barely enough to get by.

Here is another answer: the right amount of money is how much one can earn comfortably without spending their life at work or getting over stressed earning it.

John as a 26 year old living in Chicago who is living through this and falls somewhere in between the 3rd and 4th rungs, I can tell you that your numbers are almost spot on.

You can have a heck of a lot of fun on $70k per year. Up from there is wear the major savings can start, assuming you want a really carefree, fun lifestyle.

My view of money has changed drastically in the last few years. 4 years ago, I would have been stoked to make 75K a year. I was making roughly 40K per year....but had good friends, bought a house, ate good food...and had a normal amount of days off to do the things that I wanted to do. Life was good...but I thought if just made more money, things would be awesome!

Fast forward to today. I make roughly 5 times what I made 4 years ago. I have a good job that I'm proud of, but I work like an absolute mad man. I've worked 6 days a week for over 2 years now. I don't have the time to do anything fun. I never have weekends off. The flip side is, that I can wear a t-shirt, flip flops, and shorts to work. I don't take work home with me. That's a big one.

I was at a Kings game a few weeks ago with some of my old airline buddies. Both are regional FO's making enough money to live on. ...but one mentioned he had 18 days off per month. The other complained about only having 11 days off per month. I sat there and realized that I get 4 days off per month. Plus, I live in an area I don't really want to be in. I would much rather be back home in Indiana. The money is nice...but gosh, in some ways, it's blood money.

I don't spend the money...I save it. I max out my 401K, and still put away around $3800 into savings every two weeks after expenses. The Ferrari is paid off (paid cash), the Vista Cruiser was a cash buy, etc. Saving for what? I don't know...but I just don't feel right burning through money. The situation in 2008 left an indelible mark in my mind. I have been much more thrifty since then.

I've learned a lot in the last couple of years. Quality of life is much more important then a terrific salary. If I could make what I do, but get the time off that I wanted, then super. But it's not the case. I would gladly take a 50% pay cut to be back home, with even just two days off per week.

So...make sure she makes enough money to meet her needs and save. But don't sacrifice your quality of life to do so....

Despite what many in the past few generations believe, money is not just something to spend, not just something to provide a certain standard of living.
It is a tool and a goal all wrapped up into one, it is SECURITY.
If you have enough of it you don't have to worry, you don't have to fear the "what if".

When someone understands that TRUE value of money, everything else seems to fall into perspective.

I think the worst scenario would be to work work work. Kill yourself to make excellent money. Then have it actually kill you (as it does in some sad cases). Then the money goes to some daft relative who looses half of it at the casino and the other half at the Audi RS8 dealership.