Who here knows farm tractors?

[cashflyer]

After reading the Snapper mower thread and seeing the tractors in there, I am considering buying a farm tractor to pull around a bush-hog and a finish mower on 4 acres. Maybe tug some aircraft around. Nothing too difficult.

I like the idea of a Ford 8N or NAA, however I have also found a nice Ford 3000 for the same price range.

3000 series: 47hp. Some were gas, some were diesel.
NAA: 20hp gas.
9N: 16hp gas.


Physically, the tractors are similarly sized, so I don't guess maneuverability would be a deciding factor. The 3000 weighs about 1000lbs more, so ground pressure could be an issue unless I switch it to fat turf tires.

The 3000 has over 2x more power. But do I need it? I always like to think that more power is better, and that "one day I may need to do X" - but I also know about false justification of expenses.

Are there any drawbacks to owning the 9N or NAA tractor?
Peculiarities? Parts availability? Reliability?


Thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

[Seahawk]

I'll be in the minority here: Old tractors are nice but if you have a lot of work to do, you want a hydrostatic transmission and power steering, especially if you are mowing/bush hogging or using a front end loader.

I have a MF 235 I hardly ever use unless I am bush hogging the lines or the big pasture, where straight and level works. Any complex mowing, front end loader work (the 235 has a front end loader twice the size of the other, more modern tractor, but I can move more material with the smaller loader) I use the smaller, modern tractors.

There are a ton of really nice estate-plus diesel tractors that would work 4 acres like a champ.

I'm looking to replace the 235: Manual transmissions are not optimum for in close work.

[matt f]

JD 750 diesel. 4 wheel drive. Front and rear PTO's.
Turf tires w rears loaded. 150lbs. each.
Loaded tires to counterbalance front end loader.
60" belly mower and 60" brush hog. Used separately.

108 acres with 6 ponds. Mowed about 7 acres.
Yearly basic maintenance and lube all it's nipples weekly.
No runs, no drips, no errors.

Bought used (350 hours.)
Front end loader was new.
$12k.

I wouldn't pay the green and yellow paint tax for a new one.
Yanmar Diesel engine.

Matt

[on2wheels52]

I'd want some hydraulics and live pto. I'd call a 9N the model T of tractors (so to speak).
Jim

[Dan J]

I'm with these guys. PS and Hydrostatic are both mandatory
Currently have a Kubota B3500 25 HP diesel 4wd with a loader
It runs perfect. Everything in life should work as well as a Kubota
Bought it for 11k used with 300 hrs

I had an International 300 U Which was a good machine but I'm too vintage for vintage iron

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by Dan J

I'm with these guys. PS and Hydrostatic are both mandatory
Currently have a Kubota B3500 25 HP diesel 4wd with a loader
It runs perfect. Everything in life should work as well as a Kubota
Bought it for 11k used with 300 hrs

Great advice and a great price on that Kubota. I say something in this size range from either JD or Kubota.

I'm looking at a JD 2305 with a loader and belly mower. Only 90 hours and asking price is $11K......

[ckelly78z]

For a finish mower, you definitely will want a tractor with live PTO (The mower will remain running with the tractor trans in neutral or the clutch pushed in.

If you have ever tried mowing around trees, and buildings with a rear mounted mower, you can appreciate how hard it is not to miss large swaths of lawn when turning the tractor (the mower goes in the opposite direction of the front wheels.

I have a John Deere 855 with a 52" loader, and a 72" finish belly mower, and with 25 HP from a 3 cylinder diesel, there are still occasions that I want more power, but I wouldn't give up that foot controlled hydrostatic for any amount of money

[cashflyer]

I spent a lot of summers mowing the fields with my father's Ford and rear mounted rotary mower. Manual transmission. No power steering.

Not sure about the 'live' PTO term. I know when you pushed the clutch in, the PTO stopped. Clutch out, in any gear or (N) and the PTO would run. It's the only tractor I have had any experience with.

Around here, I can buy the three tractors I mentioned for around $3000 to $3500 in VG to E condition. I'm not looking to install a loader. Just mow grass. And I thought it would be more 'fun' on an antique tractor.

Maybe I should just buy a zero turn mower.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by on2wheels52

I'd want some hydraulics and live pto. I'd call a 9N the model T of tractors (so to speak).
Jim

I meant 8N - not 9N.
Wiki says that the 8 still does not have "live" PTO, though.
Live PTO was optional on the NAA, according to Wiki, and it says that they hydraulics were better on the NAA.

[MRM]

I literally grew up on John Deere two cylinders. The knowledge that I have of tractors comes from my father so I have deep knowledge of tractors from the 30s through 1959. That's when John Deere switched to modern engine design. My father didn't recognize the heresy of a four cylinder tractor, so my direct knowledge stops there. I can, however, describe in detail what it is like using an antique tractor as a work machine. I highly recommend buying something modern. I defer to Seahawk's judgement, as does any reasonable man, and he is right here as usual.

Antique tractors are beautiful, historic, romantic, and belong in parades and museums. Don't make life hard on yourself. By a reasonably new model that had reasonably new technology. Life is too short to torture yourself for the beauty of working on a romantic piece of machinery. Buy one for the parade ground if you want, but buy something modern for work.

Here's a link to a good explanation of live PTO. The one poster's description of a farmer trying to keep from clogging a rake or bailer with a regular PTO is spot-on. Tricky, but it can be done.

What is a "live" and "non live" pto? - SmokStak

[futuresoptions]

In my Snapper thread, I stated that my sister and bil had a small Massey, but I was over there day before yesterday and it is in fact a International Harvester 234 Hydro. Not too big, not too small. Would work fine for what you are wanting to do and would not break the bank and you can find them reasonably priced (at least the last time I checked).

[oldE]

As you have probably figured out "live PTO" usually refers to either a two-stage clutch (first 2/3 of travel de-clutches the drive to the wheels, last 1/3 declutches the drive to the PTO) or a seperate clutch for the PTO (some older Case and a few New Holland and some bigger tractors).

Having had hydrostatic and gear drive units, I would say hydro is nice in some situations, but not essential and may rob a bit of power. One alternative is shuttle shift to allow shifting between forward & reverse, great for loader work or fiddling around the edges of a field.
I have a New Holland TC30, which has the gear selector on the dash in an "H" pattern with 2nd and Reverse on the right side of the "H". This makes it great for loader work or three point turns on the headlands. Yes, you have to push the clutch, but the ergonomics are so much better than reaching down for the shifter.
Also, a gear drive will have less hp lost in the drivetrain.

Happy hunting.
Les

[futuresoptions]

Here is a pic I pulled off the net. It looks just like theirs and they have the same type of turf tires installed instead of the farm type with the heavy tread.

Note: theirs does not have the belly mower like this one appears to have. They have a 4-5ft shredder attached. I have worked on theirs and it is fairly easy to work on.

[cashflyer]

Thanks, guys.... I appreciate the advice and the links.

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

I meant 8N - not 9N.
Wiki says that the 8 still does not have "live" PTO, though.
Live PTO was optional on the NAA, according to Wiki, and it says that they hydraulics were better on the NAA.

Without rambling on about these Fords in particular, having live PTO is a big plus especially for mowers.

In a live PTO, there's a dual clutch. Half pedal releases the trans and full depress releases the PTO.

As an example, if you have a large rotary cutter (Bush Hog trade name) on a 9 or 8N (no live PTO on them) and your moving along while the PTO / mower is spinning, you suddenly want to stop so naturally one depresses the clutch and brakes. BUT, the enertia from the rotary cutter will still be turning and right thru the trans. to the diff. pinion, thereby 'pushing' you and much harder to stop.

Another example on these early non-live PTO is when running a pump off the back for an old loader. The moment you de-press the clutch you lose hydraulics to raise the loader. Same situation if you even tap off the tractors internal pump. (BTW- pump is low vol. and slooow). To alleviate that problem most 9 or 8N owners with loaders will run a pump off the front with a shaft coupler direct to the crankshaft pulley.

Bottom line is how easy do you want to work with the machinery to get the job done and least expense? An old Ford (flat head 9,2, 8N or overhead valve NAA) can still dig and move dirt, mow weeds and grass but its no hydrostatic, zero turning radius, push button pull lever operation. However they win in pure American tractor nostalgia, all have a common standard category three pt. hitch for unlimited implements - (new or used), parts are and will be around forever.

[URY914]

Make sure you get one with enough power like this one.....

[intakexhaust]

Cash- I should have mentioned or asked what type of terrain or if you plan to mow on hills.

Important to consider if looking at the antiques. A low center of gravity like an old Ford 8N is far superior to those with an engine / chassis sitting up high. Although all will have an adjustable width front axle. Worst for mowing on hills is a tractor with a 'row-crop' chassis (narrow front).

More on mowers. Depending on what your mowing, use a 'bush-hog' type for the rough only. Even on an old Ford, you can drive right over three inch trees and whack them down. Definitely and must use a shear pin at the U-joint mower PTO shaft. Don't expect good results with this type of mower for finish look.

For finishing, a decent 3 blade will work.

Others for golf course like are drag behind scissors type. If you have a landing strip and clean without rocks or roots, they cut beautiful and are fast. No PTO needed.

Lastly, there are flail blade mowers, such as the old Mott. Some might still see County workers mowing with them. They can take some rough, used for finishing and have a safety factor. Higher maintenance and the small replacement blades cost plus take time to service.

[intakexhaust]

Whatever you decide, HP in tractors doesn't tell the entire story. You want torque.

Funny on the other thread someone mentioned a Cub LowBoy. Cute and quiet runners but what a gutless wonder 4 cylinder. A 60" mid-mount mower on a Cub will struggle in only 6 inches of grass (not weeds!).

[cashflyer]

Thanks závodník.
I knew not to consider a narrow front, tricycle setup. I have a few hills.

It looks from that link MRM posted, like an over-running coupler would solve the PTO "pushing the tractor" problem. TSC shows them for $80.

Our field and the runway never have big rocks or stumps, but they are not golf-course quality either. I could not use a reel mower. Well, maybe once. I was leaning toward a 72" finish mower for the bulk of my needs.

[Beartooth]

A little food for thought. I ranch in Montana and have Three tractors. A Massy MF150 two wheel drive. One JD 92hp and one Kubota 135 Hp. The later are both 4x4. Hp is not all that needs to be considered. Torque to the ground is critical. I love my old 67 Massey and word it all summer picking up bales, blading, harrowing the fields and cutting the lane. The larger tractors are needed for the larger equip., balers, ditchers, feeding and moving snow. In NC, I wouldn't think a 4x4 would be needed unless you are in sand. I would highly consider any future use you might have. Loader, yard work, etc. A three point hitch is a must and rear PTO. Hydro in the rear is nice depending on attachments. Do you want or need a bucket to landscape? If I were to buy today again, I would repeat the Kubota all day long. The Best engine out there, the best fuel economy available and the best resale all day long. If you like green the purchase a JD. If you like Red then purchase a Massey or Case. You couldn't give me Case do to the maintanence issues. That said, If I were you, I would find a nice skidsteer and load up on attachments that meet your needs. Brush Hog all day long in the narrowest of areas. Move dirt, lift engines, plant trees, etc. The sky is the limit. I have a front attachment for mine and I move all of my trailers and balers in and out of the shop. Gooseneck or bumper pull. My Bobcat is used everyday and worth every penny. I have had three and made money everytime I have upgraded or sold for a lower hour machine.