How Do I Get Into These Messes
 

So I'm under the truck at my shop in my office building with the overhead door open. A beat-up Dodge pickup comes in and some guy gets out and asks how I'd like to have my parking lot resealed that afternoon for $1300. I told him no. He chats a bit, all the while I'm under the truck working on the wiring and giving him half my attention. Finally he says, "We can come back and do it this afternoon for $1000. I say sounds OK, call me at 4:30.When I finish with the truck I check my records and see the last guy sealed both of my lots for $1100, meaning he price is about double what I payed before. So I"m planning to tell this guy not to do it when he calls at 4:30. 4:30 comes and goes, no phone call. 5:00 no phone call. I've got dinner plans so I'm out until 9:00. When I drive back by the office the lot has been resealed. I get home and check my phone and he's been calling since 8:00. Now I'm going to have to deal with this flake and I'm not doing it until Monday. He can call all he wants, I'm going to enjoy my weekend.

Traveller con man. Have a shotgun ready if he comes back.

No contract, no deal. He can go pound sand. Hate cheaters.

Where is FastFred and what have you done to him?

Possession is 9/10ths of the law... You possess it now, so time to negotiate. ;)

Yep. :mad:

When you meet with the guy...............
 

Tell him that he did the wrong parking lot. Explain that even though the one he did is next to your building, you don't own it! Oh yeah, don't forget to bring a shotgun!

Probably would have been better to tell him to just leave his number and you will call him when and if you are interested. "Now beat it...I'm busy right now working on my truck."

However - this does not mean you did anything wrong - completely on him to do the work WITHOUT A SIGNED AUTHORIZATION (as it would be explained IN COURT).

Yep - he did the sealing job without a signed contract or verbal agreement.

Thus he is S.O.L.

That said....if your lot needed the sealing....you could offer him $500.00 as a negotiated settlement. If you go down that road though....put it all down on paper and include signatures.

My 2 cents.

Sorry, but I think you owe him $1,000.

This reminds me of the trailer thread, 'did you drive it on the road?'. Morally, you are on the hook in my opinion. Legally you are not.

What was your intention when you said 'call me at 4:30'? To set a time? To (re)negotiate the price?

In our business we never order materials or authorize work without a written quote/Purchase Order/Work Order. Not even for contractors we've been using for 20+ years. Also, no labor is authorized on any property we own without proof of insurance.

As Judge Judy would say, You ate the steak, now you have to pay for it......

Did he do a good job?

If so, give him $500 for doing the first half and $500 when he finishes the second half.

Tell him that you are very happy with his work and say that in this day and age that nobody does any work without some money up front and that it was nice that he trusted you so much. Remind him that he was supposed to have called and that you would have requested a little heavier application of sealer if given the chance.

Again, compliment him on his good work and ask when they will complete the rest of the job. Write him the $500 check and say he will get the rest when completed.

If they did a crappy job.....it may go south from there.

I'm alive and well, and I know you are going to be surprised, but I have had it out with the driveway re-sealers also.
They were trying to strong arm my Father in law his last year alive. He was clearly a sickly old man who was only working with half a deck.
He told them no 4 times, and they kept coming back at him with a lower number, and trying to hard sell him. He was getting agitated, and I could tell he was upset. He was ready to cave and give these slimeballs almost 4k. I got mad, and little rude, and asked them to leave. When I came home from work the next day, and they were working him over again, I just about came out of my skin.

Paving contractors are universally scheisters. I would have no moral reservation about telling him off. Plus I don't like BS high-pressure sales tactics.

He can't prove he did the work. The lot was like that already, wasn't it? ;)

I didn't want to stop working and do the contract at that time. I wanted him to call me to see if he could come back at 4:30 with the contract. I had no idea he would take "Sounds OK" to his price as a contract to do the work.

He may not come back alone.
May be a good day to have your ex-wrestler/ex-football player friends over for that long overdue get together.
This guy has the attributes of a traveller.

Call the cops and give them a heads up.
They have probably already had complaints.

Matt

A man is only as good as his word? A mans word is his bond? "Ok" means something different now? Just throwing stuff out there. Sad to see how far we've fallen.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^don't care what state you live in as far as consumer laws go

Jeeeezus! Never ever agree to a verbal ANYTHING. Always tell them you need it in writing or don't even bother.

He wont come back alone. Either way, if he's stiffed he'll take it out one way or another. Might find one of your trucks covered in sealcoat one morning. If you're prepared, play a heavy hand of hardball.

Regardless, you have it, he wants to be paid. You have the hand. Use it. Pimp slap with it.

"Here's your $350."

"You said 1000"

"No, you said 1000. I said 350 for one lot. Prove I said different without a contract. Take it or leave it. You did it without my permission, you're lucky I dont file against you for criminal damaging."

Put the shotgun across your knees at this point.

^ This. OP says you agreed to the deal. No?

Whatever happened to at least a hand shake?

I can't believe some of you are siding with a dishonest salesman!

The OP says to call him back after 4:30. He owes him nothing, legally or technically.

I can't believe how many here think Patrick is obligated to pay. :confused:

Go back and read post #1.

Patrick told the guy to call him at 4:30pm.

No where did he agree to have the work done.

"Call me at 4:30 and we'll talk then."

I don't know how you could interpret that as "Go ahead and do the work."

The two statements aren't even vaguely close to the same thing.

The sealing contractor proceeded with the job WITHOUT consent and thus is SOL, IMO.

What happens next is another topic.

He's not obligated to pay at all. But if, in the back of his mind, he was willing to pay up to, say, $500 and the idiot did good work, I'd pay the $500 just to keep from getting vandalized or harassed later.

I understand what you are saying, but this "transaction" was so sketchy that I don't even know the guy's name. I don't think "Sounds OK" from a guy laying on his back under a truck is a contract. Some of it is on my shoulders. I wanted to get him out of my hair while I was working and get him to call me at 4:30. In no way did I believe he was going to come back at 5:30 and do the job without having enough contact with me to even tell me his name.

Yes, I agree with this, Rick.

FWIW just based on your account - the majority of blame goes to the sealing contractor, Patrick.

I'm sure you will be able to work something out.

A good reminder for us all to be very firm when these types of circumstances arise.

Here is what the OP stated:

Seller: "We can come back and do it this afternoon for $1000."
Buyer: "sounds OK, call me at 4:30".

I wasn't there, I don't know what the seller heard, I don't know what the intention of the OP was. Maybe it was 'okay, call me to arrange a time' or 'okay, call me to finish negotiations'.

To me if I offer someone a price and they say 'sounds okay' I assume he has agreed. The seller was shady and anything short of 'get the eff out of my shop' would likely have been taken as approval.

The question was 'How do I get into these messes?', the answer is 'by not being clear in your reply to a shyster'. Obviously the OP thought he has made some sort of commitment or he wouldn't have waited around to hear from the guy at 4:30.

I don't think he has a legal obligation to pay; I do think he might have a moral obligation. And I will add this: only a real **** would use the completed work as leverage to renegotiate the price. You owe him nothing, or you owe him $1,000.

Remind me never to negotiate while I'm working on a car.

But it does sound like this guy set you up.
Did he watch your business and wait for you to leave before sealing the Yard? I would bet that he did.

It all seems a bit "off" if you know what I mean.

So what I would do is sit the guy down and explain to him why you're only going to pay him $600. Get you old receipt handy from the last time it was done.
If he wants more or tries to BS you. Tell him to leave and as he's leaving tell him he'll be hearing from your lawyer.

It's your business! Your property! Your lively hood!

These guys are messing with that. Don't let them.

This.
Take photos of his plates/person and have a witness hanging out.

Taken a different way, this UN-authorised work could also be construed as vandalism on a business...

The most important thing: Is this guy an Irish Traveller or not?

If he is, that sealer is almost gauranteed to peel up or wash away by next week.

Murphy Village, the home of the southern branch, is about 10 miles from me. They didn't get the money to build those mansions and buy those Jags by being honest, hard working types.

The best story I've heard to come out of Murphy Village lately was the wife who was convicted of fraud. She had been drawing SS diability for 20+ years for blindness. Of course, she had a valid driver's license the whole time.

When he comes to collect tell him to you are too busy at the moment and to call you at 4:30.

I think unless you can keep an eye on your property 24hrs a day 7 days a week you might want to try to work something out. Maybe haggle the price and as said before try to cut him down to $500. If you totally stiff him he might take it out on some of your belongings and it will end up costing you more in the end. Sometimes you just have to spend some money to learn a valuable lesson. Just my 2 cents

sub'ing ,, this is going to get interesting

Well ...

I got to the office this morning and my tenant was here. As I was leaving Friday I had asked her if the saw someone on the parking lot to tell him to call me. She said two guys showed up about 5 minutes after I left, she told them to call, and he told her he lost my number. He left a message on voice mail 1 1/2 hrs later saying he was finished, so he had my number. He was avoiding me.
Guy shows up this morning to get paid. I told him he was supposed to call me at 4:30. He said he called five times and the call went right to voice mail. I reminded him my phone records missed calls just like everyone else's does. He tells me he had 10 guys out here and he couldn't afford to pay them to stand around while he talked on the phone. My tenant said she saw two two men here.
He wants $1000. I tell him I need a receipt with his company name address and tax ID. First he wants to know why I need his tax ID number and I tell him I have to report every expenditure over $600 to the IRS. He says, "I'm only cash. I don't do business that way." I told him, "I'm a legitimate business and I DO do business that way."
So now he says he'll take $600 cash. I told him if I give him cash it will be $400 and he'll get the H E L L out of town because I'm going straight to the police to report him.
I only hope the job he did lasts long enough to be worth $400. He said he put 110 gallons of sealer on it. I have no way of knowing how much he really used.

Oh, man. That sounds so Irish Traveler.

The new WalMart Superstore going up right across from Murphy Village thanks you.

Sounds like a gypsy. Is that what Irish Travelers are? :confused:

You handled it right. I'm too much of a hot-head for people like that, I would have told him to his face that he was a fking liar and a thief. It probably would have gone downhill from there and I would have shot him. Your result was better. :cool:

I hope you took cell phone pictures of his face and his license # or at least wrote it down.

Lots of people in this thread are suggesting that dishonesty is the best policy. No wonder this world is so effed up, too many people have zero morals or ethics.
My parents taught me the difference between right and wrong.

this guy offered to do the job for $1100, you said OK (verbal contract), he performed the work, you owe him the agreed upon amount.
He did nothing illegal or immoral or unethical. He did not CHEAT anyone. He offered to do some work for a negotiated price, and you agreed.
If you do not pay him the full amount then YOU will be the cheat.