Car Value Speculation
 

I have a 2003 Nissan 350Z (first model year of the 350) that is in excellent condition. Any educated guess on whether or not these cars will appreciate significantly in the future?

I ask because:
a) I absolutely love this car. It would be a "forever keeper" to me if not for "b."
b) It is promised to be my daughter's first car.

So, assuming my daughter does not ruin the vehicle, I'm wondering if it might be wise to get it back from her when she's ready to buy her own car for the first time. Current thought process would be to take it and give her some cash to help with a down payment on whatever it is she's looking to buy at that point.

Thoughts from the brain trust?

Appreciate from its current value? Not in the next 20 years or more.

Not a strong track record of Japanese cars appreciating or becoming a collectable.......

With large production numbers, not likely...

However... do you have sales brochures, factory options listings, and other associated literature? Stores in a small space and can bring money in 25-30 years ... look at the value of 356 sales stuff, early 911 sales stuff, even early/mid 80s sales stuff....

You know how it is with your first car most of the time. They get whipped, dinged, wrecked, poorly maintained, etc. If you love the car, maybe considering another car for her first might be worth negotiating with her at the time (or before) she is ready for her first acquisition. Of course something less zippy, economical, and practical would be better and maybe more of a preference even for her. There isn't a lot of storage space, space for others, and the 350Z isn't all that great to see out of for a first car. It might be racy, fast and sporty looking, but I'd be more comfortable for the long term with a car that offered more options for freighting her friends around, economy, and early driver safety.

Actually, I specifically get small cars for the kids so they CAN'T cart a bunch of kids around. Less distraction inside the car makes for slightly more attentive driving (in my mind, at least).

mgatepi...I dunno. Z cars in general do relatively well as collectors (nothing like Porsche). I've seen many older 300, 280's, etc that go for more than some current 350's.

I guess the bottom line is I don't want to be kicking myself in the ass in 40 years when these cars are all of a sudden going for big $ (like a lot of you who had American Muscle back in the day).

I had the exact same reaction.

A lot depends on the young lady, but that is a lot of car for a newbie driver.

Concerning long term value, Keynes was right :D

Edit: In my first squadron, most of the single pilots had sports cars. At the time I had a 1972 911T. I remember a few of my buds bought Toyota Supras, which were just amazing cars for the era, 1985. The Surpas would shake my old T and even the new SC's, which none of us could afford. I remember thinking, hmmm.

But I kept screwing with Porsche's, bought a Ford Ranger as my daily.

If her track record of the past 13+ years holds into her next couple years, she will prove to be a responsible driver. If she breaks from her current path, the car will be removed from the picture.

To put it into perspective, she is one of those kids who you sometimes forget isn't an adult.

It is promised to be my daughter's first car.

Why do people do that? A kids first car needs to be a) earned with blood sweat and tears and b) disposable, because kids are idiots.

Excellent. My Daughter was exactly the same way, and is a really, really good driver...almost eerie in terms of her awareness, which we spent a lot of time on.

We went the used FJ route. Six years later no issues.

My worry with that car and a young lady is not so much her.

It's her boyfriend who's always going to want to drive it.

In my case...because she is an exceptional young lady. She's gotten one "B" in her entire life, and was devastated by it. She is far harder on herself than I would ever be. She is the most helpful, eager to learn person I've ever met. At 12, she was already planning out her activities and classes to ensure she can get scholarships to college.

Sometimes, people like that deserve a little something rewarding them for their hard work. Giving her a car that she knows I absolutely love...she's smart enough to understand what that means. And hell, it'll be a 14 year old car by the time she starts driving it...

That thought has crossed my mind a time or two, Stomachmonkey; however, it's a stick. We know most kids these days are clueless as to how to drive anything other than a slush box ;)

So true. My son has always been the first to help, has never complained about working on the farm, in fact embraced it. The pic below is from 2006. He was 11 and had been driving the Tacoma, stick, for about a year.

It is his now. He wanted it, I promised it to him if he stayed the course. He did. To stay on the OPs point, the Taco has held it's value rather well:cool:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1405627832.jpg

Funny about being unable to drive a stick. Our daughter is an industrial electrician. During her apprenticeship she came home and announced she was driving the 5 ton boom truck "because she was the only one on the crew who could drive a stick"
.She has taught her husband how to drive one as well. Her mother taught her , not me I don,t have the patience.
All 3 of our kids had accidents in the first 3 yrs of driving their own cars. None of the accidents were judged their fault, but I think a more experienced driver might have avoided at least one or two of them.
I wouldn,t give her a performance car no matter how good /reliable she is. The boyfriends will either be intimidated by her better car or want to drive it.
A 4 cyl regular cab pick up like a Ranger (no room for passengers and a full frame ) or an underpowered car like a Prius would be my choice. NOT something cool like a Jeep, Z car etc.

^^^ this X 10 (and don't kid yourself "dad") :p

When I was 15, only one of my friend's had his license, so we'd cram 7 people into his '74 Pinto and drive like a "bat out of hell" to lunch every day. We were the "exceptionally gifted kids" too...just as gifted at raising hell as we were taking tests :D
Point is, not matter how "book smart"...16 year olds (ESPECIALLY with peer (boyfriend) influences) can and WILL do stooopid chit regardless of high IQs or straight A report cards. Just damn lucky to still be here....choose carefully dad!!!

Believe me, I know. I was "that kid," too. She shakes her head very disapprovingly when she hears stories of my youth...lol.

Currently, peer pressure washes over her back. She's in Girl Scouts; all of her friends have quit because it's "not cool" anymore. She gets made fun of by some kids because she's still doing it. She continues because she likes helping the younger girls and because it can help her with college (scholarships, and what not).

That's now. At 16, it could be a completely different story, but I hope not :)

And as far as the boyfriends go...I'm kinda scary looking (or so I'm told). I plan to use that to my full advantage :D

I sorta doubt it. I always found the 350Z (and 370Z) to be overpriced for what they were. They're good cars in their own rights but at their price point you could be into things that I consider to be way better (BMW 3 series, CLK, 996, Audi TT or S3, etc. - if you're willing to go 3-4 years old you can get a Boxster, M3, AMG or a number of other way better cars - and without the boy racer styling). I like the Zs and I test drove one when I got my SLK but I just couldn't fathom paying $4k-$5k MORE for the 350Z than the Mercedes (both similar mileage, options, condition, etc.)

Then again I think too much is made of making car buying a rational decision anyway. It ain't. It's an emotional decision. Accept it. You're GOING to lose money on it unless you're strictly buying a car as an investment (in which case you ought to have your head examined and are VERY knowledgeable about what you're doing) I say just drive what moves you. Passion is rare in this world so if vehicle choice is something you're passionate about and gets your mojo on then why deprive yourself? No good ever came from self-denial and IMHO anything that's not just another soulless beige (or silver) appliance-mobile on the road is a good thing.

Enjoy the car. Just don't expect to make money off of it. You'll only cut losses at best. Just enjoy it.

I can see that (and actually prefer the 350's to the 370's).

And soulless beige, it is not. Pic's a couple years old; everything you see in silver is now black.

http://i58.tinypic.com/bi2bgx.jpg

Your daughter will ruin the vehicle.

Doesn't matter if she's a great person, or has a great heart, or whatever.

She will.

You know what?? According to your description of her, she's a great girl and you're a lucky father. So if you are giving her the car, stop fretting about any possible monetary value of it in the future. When you give the car to her, it will be her car. Even with the most careful people things happen - or not. You have no ultimate control over that or the car while it's in her possession, so don't fret about it. If you get the car back in the condition you wish for, so much for the good. If it's not quite in the condition you wished for, that's life. Just let her enjoy the car.

Sound advice.

I've thought about buying another one after giving her this one...because I know I'm gonna miss the car! lol

No. It's a mass produced rather unremarkable Japanese car. The Datsun 240Z was considered to be groundbreaking when new, today (40+ years later) you can get a nice one for $10k.

Thread over.

Ya hurt me, Matt! A few who would disagree with your "unremarkable" comment:

Japanese Performance Car of the Year 2007 TopSpeed Magazine[36]
10 Best Cars 2003 Car and Driver[37]
Most Significant Vehicle of the Year. Two years running Edmunds.com[38]
Editors' Most Wanted 2003 Edmunds.com[39]
International Car of the Year: Most Sex Appeal Award 2003 Road and Travel[40]
Canadian Car of the Year 2003 Automobile Journalists Association of Canada[41]
Best New Design 2003 Automobile Journalists Association of Canada[42]
Driver's Choice Best Performance Car 2003 MotorWeek[43]
Winner 12 Best Cars Under 30K Road & Track[44]
Car of the Year 2004 Top Gear Magazine[33]
Automobile of the Year 2003 Automobile Magazine

Ok. I will correct Matt: It's a remarkable Japanese car that won't be worth much.

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;)

I have calibrated my crystal ball, so I have no clue.

But I'll also add that in HS I still did some stupid things with cars, despite being a 'gifted' kid that was treated as and carried the expectations of an adult in the family. Fortunately I had a 1970 beetle with a big motor. Fun enough to keep me interested, small and slow enough to keep a limited number of my friends and I alive.

Isn't someone on the board selling a Boxster? I think you can get it for $8500. Or maybe $15K. Or maybe $5K.

As somebody said above it is not a good first car for your daughter. Sits too low and has too much power. I gave my daughter our old Xtrail(like a Rav4). It sits high and has 4wd. Touch wood no accident in 9 years of driving. Sounds like you like the Z. Keep it for yourself and get her something more suitable......G.

Production numbers:
Year - U.S. Sales
2002 13,253
2003 36,728
2004 30,690
2005 27,278
2006 24,635
2007 18,957
2008 10,337

For a total of 161,878 350z's.

I'm going to say no to a major increase in value.

According to Z Design, 240Z production numbers are:
1969 = 3
1970 = 17,005
1971 = 40,219
1972 = 60,025
1973 = 51,332
------ Total 168,584

Pretty similar numbers on 240Z's. While they aren't bringing longhood $$, Hagerty has them around $15k currently - I would think that would have to be a REALLY good one. Compared to a sub-$4k MSRP in 1970 that's pretty good.

However - I think the 240Z was a lot more revolutionary than the 350Z. It's a good car, but isn't the car with a ton of race victories that helped establish Japanese sports cars as a whole, much less Nissan as a brand.

Now, performance Korean cars, if they start winning GT races... could be a different story there.

No offense to the Z guys, I personally like the cars. I think the only V6 that makes better noises than the Nissan VQ is made by Alfa-Romeo. My point was that there wasn't anything about them that made them stand out as special, especially in a historical context. They are a good car in an established segment, offering competitive performance at a competitive price. 40 years from now, what will make them stand out?

Contrast that with the original Z, one of the first mainstream Japanese sports cars that offered Porsche performance at significantly cheaper prices. It was considered the common man's 911, and a pretty big deal at the time. It was a much more significant car than the modern 350Z, yet can still be had for a very reasonable price today. That doesn't bode well for 350Z collector appeal.

I really wonder how many of our modern cars will be collector's items. Not only because they made so many of them, but also because of their running cost in 40 years. The thought of maintaining a car with 10+ ECUs and miles of wiring after 40 years is scary. My Mustang sat for about 7 years, after rebuilding the rear brakes, carburetor, replacing the ignition switch, a leaky coolant hose, and the tires it should be road worthy. All simple mechanical stuff.

Maintainability issues 40 years down the road is actually a really good point.

And that Mustang is gorgeous, btw.

I had 2 Starions, well one black Conquest and one Fiji Blue Starion.

They only made that car for 3 years.

I basically gave them away.

They were great little cars. Would not mind having one back.

Not mine but it's what my garage looked like.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...f/SAM_0076.jpg

Give it to your daughter to enjoy and get rid of it like a hot potato when she's through.

We all have our tastes and I'm with Clarkson on Nissan 350s:

"The head of a project was an indian and the engine is french. we have had fusion food before, but its the first fusion car. Think of it as being a raw hamburger curry served in a disinterested way in a bed of garlic ajuis. If your the sort of person that likes to cruise the stsreet annoying everyone with the stereo this car is for you.
it doesnt take very long to work out that this car has many weak links and the weakest link of all is the engine. first there is the noise and its just a noise and annoying drone and it gets on yoru nerves. Then there is the perfomance. they say it will do 0 to 60 in six seconds ...but it never feels that fast. when you look at the 350Z you expect it to be light, sporty and agile, but its not. I was expecting it to be like a mx-5 fun...but its not. not even a little.

What it is is a ton and a half of iron mongry. its just a muscle car and muscle cars should be fun but its not. The noise is driving me mad. The hard ride and the effort it takes to drive this car makes it one of the most exhausting cars I have ever come across. The look of the interior is fine, but what is not so good is this (showing the flimpsy build quality) I've seen better build quality in an allotment share. There no practicality. The 350 is a 3 out of 10, it could do better."

Those look...umm, peppy ;)

Sounds like a great kid, congratulations!
Having said that... what car does she want?
If she wants dad's old sports car great... but as others have said there may be other/better choices for a first car.
Just my two cents...
And if you think you are going to limit how many friends she will load into her car... think of how many teenagers could fit into a old VW bug ;)

They were stupid fun little cars.

Rear wheel drive 4 banger Turbos. Super simple and cheap to mod. Lot's of cool features that were unusual back in the mid 80's.

And looked like nothing else at the time.

The Fiji Blue was one of the hottest colors ever put on a car.

Starion / Conquest > 350Z