Its not for you then, I can understand.

You are looking at clips of FOURTY YEARS of racing, with say, over a hundred races a year in one of the first motorsports to get an entire season televised and recorded. Yes - there is a bunch of over the years. Its been the distance of several 24hr Le Man's since the last driver's got in an altercation.

You are letting the Kyle Busch, Danica Patrick, and Kevin Harvick be how you judge all the other drivers. I've met two of the above - and yes - they are jackass's, but I've met most of the others, and enjoy it.

Not all sports are for everyone, I get it, but please don't base your idea of ALL of Nascar off of lowlight vids of a handful of jackass's. Lawyers, mechanic shop owners, house contractors, etc, all have their jackass's too. I can't get into basketball, doesn't matter how much I try, I just can't understand the game. I get not being into other people's sports, but I don't slam Basketball, and especially don't slam all involved because of what a few in the sport might do to negatively make the news.

I was thinking, if the rule is "driver stay in car unless of fire", anyone who hops out mad will just say "thought I saw a fire".

There'd have to be a corollary that stated "if you jump out of your car thinking you're on fire, and if you then shake your fist at another driver, then expect a fine and suspension."

New Rule:
If you jump out of your car, we are going to set it on fire and let it burn to the ground.

Yes, If my grandmother had balls, I would not be posting this :D:):D

I read a few pages but then lost interest, has anyone said this yet?
"If Tony Stewart wasn't involved in this accident it never would have made the news?"

+1, as per "If it wasn't Robin William...

I'm surprised it took this long to have a video up about sprint cars....
NASCAR Videos | FOX Sports

But it WAS Tony Stewart and it WAS Robin Williams. What's your point??

What if it was Robin Williams instead of Tony Stewart?

Wait. This was TONY Stewart???

Tervuren -

There's a death involved. No one involved intended to kill but sanctioning bodies starting at the top, meaning NASCAR promote and permit violence for profit and it trickles down to the local dirt roundies. The local jokers racing team is what drives people to see what they believe is 'real' racing. LOL And please don't compare F1 or any ALMS / LeMans to this.

I do appreciate one being a fan or supporter of any type of motorsports and at any level, but I hope your not defending the mentality of big league circle jerks. However when it gets so deep into a team and drivers head that pissing matches to violence takes it as far to even UNINTENTIONAL death, thats beyond my appreciation and POORLY REPRESENT's a league and most definitely NASCAR. But your telling me its clean racing? They have a real a PROBLEM. That's why other fans of racing joke about it, even late night talk show host use it as a butt of jokes. The mentality of unsportsmanlike racing is so obvious.

And you do acknowledge my opnion of the Stewart-Haas roster. The money they bring to the big circus... good ol'e France family knows what it means.

And there's no possible way you just watched the thousands of youboob vids NASCAR turned WWF. Not just the past 40 years either. Rather overwhelming, isn't it? Also, go to some smaller venues, the aggression is very common. Although its usually just a few bad apples but thats one too many.

TS has a problem, and he's had it way before this tragedy. The series including others mentioned earlier also have a problem. These drivers have been feeding on aggression and have become richer by doing so. I have no clue or thoughts of how Tony Stewart feels right now or what he was thinking at the moment of the incident, but I'll say he does have one heavy cloud -- er' smoke --- forever over him. The Ward kid sadly lost it and paid with his life. Dead, gone, nada. Was he smart, I don't know but he sure did a grave error. Maybe just like Mr. 'Smoke', thought he was above them all. These circle drivers all need a head re-alignment.

And what does being a sportsman mean anymore? Especially with the amounts spent by corporate sponsors who try to project a good image and promote products or services. Shame on Home Depot marketing execs for idolizing a jackazz like Stewart. And another reason why I despise these series ---- its just supposed to be a freakin race and I HATE THE GOONS. Why is it so many NASCAR fans cheer the bad guys? I wish the driving would just be fair and square. All the billions of dollars involved won't bring a dead kid back but will this be the start of quality, clean racing?

If these racing leagues really understood and cared more they should offer two choices:

Choice 1- Schenanigan drivers, hothead's, loss temper antics should have their racing license pulled. Oh yeah, that reminds me of Dani Patrick in the Indy Riot League --- she'd be done, gone.

Choice 2- Race and let them have at it, jump out of rides, be a matador in the bullring, all the antics... helmet throwing, take a dump and watch it melt on a hot track, but they drive cars without cages! Yee haw! And while at it, they get one set of bi-azz' tires. Extra points given for the best pit crews cage match fight.

Maybe obvious, but the only piece of this whole story that is an incontrovertible fact, and it is of huge import in the question of culpability. It is basically impossible to know the actions of Tony Stewart from the evidence presented so far, so much more so his intent. His past actions have resulted in fines and a reputation as a hot head, not an entirely reckless individual. So you have a driver that bet on everyone seeing and avoiding him on the track, or on his own skill to dodge sprint cars at 45 mph, and he lost. You have a very talented driver that may have made an error in judgement or over estimated his own skill in trying to "splash" the irate driver (certainly possible) or may have intentionally hit him (seriously unlikely). Analyzing that, I would say the only certain responsibility for the result is on the driver that left his vehicle on an active track.

Best post so far,

The FIA runs a very tight ship and there are serious penalties for bring the sport into disrepute. A lengthy ban makes everyone think twice before getting their fists out, even when their thoughts are clouded by the red mist.

Outside of the USA, I'd bet most people who enjoy watching F1, Le Mans, Moto GP, WRC consider NASCAR and especially dirt oval racing to be a bunch of good ole boys driving around in circles bumping into each other to entertain beer drinking rednecks.

I know this is far from the reality amongst most of the top level NASCAR teams but it is sadly what is portrayed on the TV and the organisers appear to accept.

Personally I think fighting has no place in professional motorsport unless it is for track space within the rules. If the rules don't deter people from jumping out of their car and slugging it out on the track or pits then the organiser needs to decide if they are in the racing business or the redneck entertainment business.

NASCAR will have to be very careful not to lose a large percentage of their fan base by toning down the racing contact rules too much as I'm sure the crashes and on track bust ups are what the fans have really come to see.

How exactly, is it not "real racing"??

.

I have seen fights in many of the ball sports. What about that? McEnroe in tennis used to get a lot of press for smashing rackets. The old agony of defeat.

It a human condition.

Anyway....how many people on this thread have ever been to a Cup or even Nationwide race? Its very much s professional effort. There are a lot of beer drinking fools in the parking lots but I see a ton of snobbery in this (and every NASCAR) thread on PPOT. I was at the Glen last weekend....I don't recall that many hillbillies. Yes, many blue collar guys you don't see on a computer forum but not Cooter and Cletus like you all expect.

Can't speak for everyone like you do, but when it comes to myself (and ALL of my buddies and our wives, and girlfriends) that have attended many races over the years...you're just flat wrong...we'll just have to disagree.

Never seen a fight or ANY of the stereotypes depicted in this thread over the 20+ years I attended Nascar races (dozens of races at a half-dozen tracks). You want to see the "human condition"...go to a college football game on ANY Saturday or "many" pro games on a Sunday :D. But then again...I'm just an ignorant Southern redneck who wants to pay $100 to go see some wrecks and a few fights, so what do I know (and I feel "cheated" 'cause I've NEVER gotten my $ worth)....:rolleyes:

ps: 'Cause I've ALWAYS had a DD for the ride home...I do admit to being a "beer drinking fool" however :)

It is. What intakexhaust seems to be saying is that many fans see the local dirt-track events as MORE real than the NASCAR festival of yellow flags, restarts, and Junior.

And they may be right.

I am sorry this happened. I do not think Tony would have in any stretch of imagination aimed his car at the boy with intent to kill. It is a dreadful outcome. Regardless, there is still responsibility on Tony's part.

Bingo.



.

OK, but why would he have any reason to scare him? Why would he have any reason to think he would be in the middle of the track so Stewart could scare him?

Stewart made the pass. Ward ran wide, got in the loose dirt at the edge of the track, lost the back end, and kissed the wall.

Let me guess your answer: "Because I don't like NASCAR, and I don't like Tony Stewart, therefore he must be the sole reason that Ward is dead".

I don't like NASCAR either, it bores me to tears, and I don't give two schidts about Stewart or any other NASCAR driver, either, but I can be objective.

Yep, and it is tragic.

You are missing the third, and in my view most likely scenario. Stewart didn't see Ward until it was too late and did the best he could in a car that is difficult to control at slow speeds to avoid him, and came up short. This is what the driver two cars behind him believes, and I suspect he had a better view of the action than the video from the stands.

Stewart had no reason to be mad at Ward, and probably didn't know why the yellow was out (at least until the stopped car came into view). With no mirror and no spotter, and from what I can see in the video no contact between his car and Wards, why would he be mad enough at Ward to try and "Splash" or "Squirt" him? Again, no contact, no mirror, no spotter, would he have any reason to think Ward was mad at him?

Come on emcon, people on the internet thousands of miles away know better than anyone that was there.

I have watched many a race and listened to lots of spotter traffic. Often drivers dont know who caused the wreck...and blame the nearby car. Drivers don't often know what lap it is, if they get mixed up in traffic or a pit issues who they are racing when they get back out. Spectators know a lot more than the drivers at the time.

Think about people looking at their phone in traffic and someone runs out or changes lanes. Stuff happens quick. The whole internet has the video to watch and rewatch. I really see the other one.

Tony "FA" Stewart has decided not to race at Michigan this weekend and Nascar and added new rules in regards to last weekend tragedy. I'm not surprised at either revelation.

I wouldn't be too surprised if TS quit all together. His age, last year's badly broken leg and the complications during recovery (infection or some such problem), his increasing girth, his career his waning I think. Having a rather poor year, also. All factors to ponder.

I don't think his ego would allow that.

I think TS is pretty much a jerk but I don't believe for a second he did anything malicious to try and hurt or scare Ward. I believe it was truly an accident and now a family is w/o their son and TS has screwed up his life because of the guilt he must now carry wondering whether he could have done something different.

Just a very sad situation.

I have no problem with NASCAR. I don't think there are very many talented drivers among them, but that's another thread. I don't like Tony. I don't believe that what he did was due to some "culture" in "redneck" racing, either. It was a personal failure of professionalism, and respect for the other driver. Stewart knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and drove his car DELIBERATELY towards Ward in an attempt to scare him.

This is a 1/2 mile oval track, not a road course where Tony might not be aware that he got out of his car. He knew he was on the track before he came through the turn onto the back straight. Ward was acting like a 20-year old, unfortunately, and tragically, so was the 43 year-old, who should have maintained his respect and professionalism, and simply drove by like the several other cars before him did. We're talking about a Saturday night sprint race for Christ's sake, Not the Daytona 500.

How exactly do you drive by someone who is specifically targeting your car and running down the track at you? The other cars were able to go by because Ward was not aiming for them, in fact he purposely waited for them to go by before moving towards TS.

I don't know if TS did something to try and scare the kid or not (I doubt it) but the fact remains that Ward got out of his car and caused this 100% in my mind. He stays in the car, he's alive today...period.

OK, just thinking here...
I "tend" to think TS was trying to scare, etc. But I know nothing for sure.
That said... For those that say 100% the kids fault...
Does the fact the kid got out of the car (a relatively common practice with this kind of racing, by the way) exonerate TS from any and all responsibility? It seems like some are saying it does, whether he was trying to scare/spray/teach a lesson, etc or not...

Not trying to argue or make a point. Honestly wondering what others think...

Getting out of the car was a bad idea... running out on a dirt track at night into traffic was a very bad idea that killed him IMHO 100% the kids fault.
If any of us went running out on the freeway at night and got hit... who's fault would it be?

For what reason? Stewart has acted like an asshat in the past, but ever time I am aware of it was because he was the one out of the race, and have a perceived beef with another driver.

What possible reason would Stewart have for wanting to scare Ward?

Looking at the video, it was 26 seconds between the time of the initial spin by Ward when Stewart's car went out of frame, until the contact that killed Ward. So dividing by 4, that give Stewart 6.5 seconds from the time you think he should have been seen by Stewart. In the 6 seconds before the impact, 3 other cars passed Ward.

You know, Ward, the guy wearing all black who was running around in the middle of the dark racetrack. With three other cars between him and Stewarts Line of sight. Cars with giant vertical wing panels.

Yeah. Unless some evidence appears that Stewart was trying to scare him, which I doubt exists, no race driver should ever be expected to anticipate a driver running around the middle of the track.

On edit: Stupid forum, posted before I was finished.

As I said before, the sanctioning bodies who have allowed this sort of nonsense (getting out of your car and jumping around like an aggressive twat) deserve some blame, simply because they have allowed it to go on so long it has become part of the culture.

This thread is going in circles just like Sprint cars do........What lap are we on now? I lost count?

Tony Stewart gets out of his car in a rage and throws his helmet at another car = completely justified and sanctioning body looks the other way. (His fans love it.)

Nobody kid gets out of his car to do the same thing = stupid rookie mistake and we need a new rule(s) to stop such foolish behavior. And poor TS! How could that inconsiderate kid do such a thing and put Tony and his family and corporate entourage through all this terrible scrutiny and emotional trauma? We all hope you feel better soon Tony.

Kid stays in his car and "does the right thing" = he's a pussy and all you TS lovers know it.

Pussy = a fate worse than death and that's why these guys get out of their cars and that's why their fans love it.

The kid's dead, but at least he's not a pussy.
This is in green in my mind.

Kid's fault 100%.

[QUOTE he's not a pussy.<br>
This is in green in my mind.[/QUOTE]

So it's ok be to be an idiot as long as you aren't a pussy? That is the most f-ed like of thinking I've seen around here, which is saying something..

This kind of macho mentality is why guys do stupid stuff like we are discussing here, so they can sound tough to idiots like you. May you never die as a result if your own stupidity...

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipdup (Post 8215070) exonerate ...

This is the United States exonerate is what we do....

Getting out of the car - no, finger pointing - no. Trying to make physical contact with Tony's car or person - yes.

Tony did not come up the track to hit Ward, Ward came down the track to hit Tony. That is the difference. Ward, the last you see of him - is lunging into the side of the #14, either to hit the driver inside, climb onto the car, or tripped and fell.

Its akin to an insurance scammer standing by the side of a road, looking right at you - you expect him not to jump into the road as you see eye contact between you - you know he sees you. When you are two seconds from him - he steps out into the road - looking squarely at you. Its an entirely different matter to run up on a sidewalk and hit someone.

When Tony did this - Kenseth was driving on a rev limiter through the pits. Tony was standing around talking to the ambulence and safety workers, Kenseth conveniently drove right by. Tony did not step out onto a track, and did not step into Kenseth's way, Tony did not come out of the car and walk out up the track banking to find Kenseth the moment his car came to rest. There is a difference here. NASCAR has passed out fines and suspensions for this stuff if they feel a driver put themselves or someone else in danger.

The driver's in this did not get a reward and NASCAR did not look the other way. They were both fined enough to buy a well setup Mustang + change.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/eYh7BhiDYxY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If he was in the middle of a dark racetrack and got killed, it would be 100% his fault too.

If he had just thrown his helmet from the side, he would be alive today, watching the video of him spinning and trying to figure out why he was so mad.

Which is why the culture needs to change, and it needs to come from the sanctioning bodies.

I am fortunate to be a race fan that lives near Charlotte - where lots of race teams and shops are based. Its also a banking hub.

F1, sports cars , Indycar, NASCAR, I've been at the kart track with all of them. The NASCAR guys are the only ones that can run with me after just a few minutes. Kurt Busch's first time out on the track layout we were running is within a few tenths of my time. kimi raikkonen has never gotten within a second and he's been out here a few times. I have a lot more respect for NASCAR drivers than I used to.

Some are there because of name/family, but the ones with multiple race wins or championships are top notch drivers.

That doesn't mean one can jump from one sport to the other - certain styles and setups favor one driver over another. Carl Edwards has a smooth style that is like you put his steering rack in a friction inducing clamp. Works great with a heavy NASCAR on a roadcourse(Carl won a race in the rain against "road racers" at the Grand Prix circuit in Montreal some years back) or oval, but he simply CANNOT adjust to karts, and is slower than Kimi.

If you want a better look at style, check out the race of champions front wheel drive rounds from a few years. Carl Edwards spanked Michael Schumacher in a car that required a smooth style, but Carl got his tail handed to him by Vettel in the next round in a very twitchy lightweight car. Shcumacher and Jimmy Johnson both have driving styles that rely on a lot of right foot to rotate the car - they both lost their FWD rounds and were eliminated. That doesn't mean they are bad drivers - just their style didn't fit that car.

I think I get it. I guess some are 100% sure they know what was in TS's mind (and his intentions), therefore it's all (my question) a moot point.

ditto, ditto,

So it's ok be to be an idiot as long as you aren't a pussy? That is the most f-ed like of thinking I've seen around here, which is saying something..

This kind of macho mentality is why guys do stupid stuff like we are discussing here, so they can sound tough to idiots like you. May you never die as a result if your own stupidity...[/QUOTE]

Responding to post above mine. #310.
If you think I'm ok with what happened, you're wrong.
Stay in car and live.
It's pretty simple.