ZN, I thought this was covered earlier in the thread, but the person filming is in the stands on the front straight... when they zoom in on the back straight, it's easy to forget that the action over there is 100 yards away or more.

The throttle blip you hear is from one of the cars nearest the camera or phone he is recording with... not from any of the cars on the back straight.

The camera doesn't zoom in on sound... only the image.

The sound of the blip is loud because it's close to the guy holding the camera... just like his voice.

I'm pretty sure that if I killed someone while driving, I would feel pretty badly, regardless. Where I grew up, mother's would push their baby carriages out in front of your car like it would help you to stop your car faster, instead of pushing the little button. I guess I'd still feel very strange, even if it was a case of infanticide by car.

No one else hit the kid, but he wasn't heading toward any other car, just Tony's. He got out of his car, with the single purpose in his mind to confront TS. He got out of his car with the idea that he was going to intersect with the TS car, and no one else, and he did in fact do so. TS did not force him off the track with the purpose of getting him to get out of his car so that he could be run over and killed.

Stewart may never race again, because someone decided to force an issue. There is an eye witness, a professional driver who was directly behind TS, who says that he did everything in his power to avoid that boy. You, not even being on the scene, seem to be pretty sure TS intentionally set out to hurt or kill that boy.

Now even IF you could show that TS did something with his car that led to the boy's death, can you prove intent ? I'm pretty sure I can make a good case that the other driver got out of his car with the sole purpose of making his way to the Stewart car. His reckless and rash actions ended his life, and damaged another. He had NO interest in confronting any other car on the track. He wanted to get to the TS car, and by Gumby he succeeded. BRAVO.

Tell me why TS shouldn't sue his estate for damages caused by his wanton disregard for his own safety ? Did he even think before getting out of his car ?

I'm sorry, but Darwin won this round. Personally, if it was me, I would have just picked up the TS car and shaken it. THAT would have shown HIM. Oh wait. What ???

Whoa now... Don't put words in my keyboard. I have never said that TS did this intentionally. I was responding to Turvens comments. BUT, I am saying that the longer TS is away, the worse it seems. I know there's lawyers and sponsors and stuff involved, but TS bein TS you think he would have appeared before now. Some of these Internet experts are ready to hang him for his past hot headhedness. (Anyone see Denny Hamlin chuck a HANS this weekend?).

I'd really like to see TS back, he's a good racer and fun for the sport. I don't think he will ever be the same.

If you have any conscience and you accidentally kill someone you will never be the same. Simple as that.

I saw one of those buzz feed things....there are a surprising lot of celebrities that have accidentally killed someone. Typically it wasa lot llonger than 3 weeks ago however. People you wouldnt expect.

Pure speculation on my part, and not concrete fact. As for trying to jump on the car, its not possible to really know what Ward was thinking, so its not certain this was his intent.

These are a few of the reasons for my speculation as to Ward hitting the end plate first.

http://bangshift.com//assets/galleri...atland-001.jpg


You can see the wing plates stick out about as far as any other protrusion. Ward is leaning forwards at a pretty steep angle. The upper wing plate on the side of the camera would cast a deep shadow obscuring the lower wingplate from Ward's clear view. Tony on the other hand, would be brightly lit in his car, as the wingplate on that side would allow the cockpit and helmet to be getting bathed in light from the stands.

You can see the wing assembly of Tony's car bend, and start a rebounding spring action. These things are extremely sturdy assembly's, and wouldn't be doing this on its own. It moves a few inches, enough to show up on the poor quality video if you reference the wing to the rest of the car.

We can also probably exclude Ward getting run over, because there was no lifting of the car to pass over him.

A hit from the rear tire would transfer the initial shock energy to Ward's lower body, sending Ward into clockwise tumble, but Ward is in a counter clockwise tumble.

Tony coming to a stop so fast probably means he knew Ward was incapacitated on the track, and if Ward hit Tony's wing plate, tony would see this. This would probably be why Tony's been so quiet - if asked questions in public, it'd not be easy for a wiseass like Tony to always 100% of the time week after week day after day to give a respectful answer when someone asks why, "you ran him down", when you saw the guy make a final leap and hit your car. Given his snarkiness, and what may have happened, and that Tony probably saw it happen, its likely at some point Tony might vent in frustration at constant questioning. Tony could be taking a LONG break from any public appearances. Since this is a large part about marketing strategy for NASCAR drivers, his career as a driver is not going to be an easy thing to continue.

Ward lunges and reaches, he isn't just standing there pointing.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408980841.gif

I've also pulled the frame's on Ward's spin, and nothing about Ward or Tony's car indicates any actual contact between them.

We have been discussing this on the ferrari site...
 

We have spent a good bit of time discussing that there is no viable legal chance that TS will be cited criminally. we do however think a civil case is eminent. further we do think that there will never be a trial as the pressure to settle outside of court (or even formal mediation), from nascar and sponsors will be very heavy and TS will make the ward family financially whole in the form a a very large check. further, expect the ward family to come out and declare the tragedy a racing accident and that TS has been nothing but a comforting gentleman during these hard times...draw your own conclusions but you now have mine. best,

Potential criminal and civil cases against Tony Stewart,*explained - SBNation.com

Since the day he was involved in an incident that took the life of Kevin Ward Jr., Tony Stewart hasn't competed in a race. He has vanished from the public eye, surrounding himself with close friends and family, and is said to be grieving at an undisclosed location, according to the NASCAR team he co-owns, Stewart-Haas Racing.

As Stewart mourns, an investigation is ongoing into the actions that led to Ward's Aug. 9 death. Ontario (N.Y.) County Sheriff Philip Povero stated that the initial findings have not indicated any basis to find "criminal intent" by Stewart, whose sprint car struck and killed an on-foot Ward during a race at Canandaigua Motorsports Park.

The purpose of the investigation is to gather all available facts, and then assess whether Stewart should face any of an array of potential charges for his role in Ward's death, according to Meri Van Blarcom-Gupko, an attorney at Wiley Malehorn Sirota & Raynes in Morristown, N.J., who specializes in motorsports-related legal issues and spoke at length with SB Nation.

The criminal side

Murder or first-degree manslaughter are the most serious charges to be considered. Obtaining a conviction on either count would hinge on the prosecution being able to determine Stewart's intent, which would be a challenge, especially under the facts publicly presented.

"Proving that Stewart intentionally aimed at Ward with an intention of seriously injuring him or killing him is virtually impossible," Van Blarcom-Gupko said. "Although his 'bad boy' reputation precedes him, it is quite the stretch to allege that because he has thrown punches or a helmet at races before, it is proof that he intentionally went after Ward with his car. There is no pattern of Stewart aiming his car at competitors to scare or injure them from which any intent could theoretically be derived. At this point, there is no evidence to suggest a first-degree charge should even be considered."

A manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide charge would place the burden on the district attorney to show that Stewart's behavior was not in line with what a reasonable person would have done in a similar situation. Essentially, did Stewart do something that is atypical of a sprint car driver when under caution or when someone is walking on the track?

On this point, the sheriff's office has been seeking out and speaking with individuals with expertise in sprint racing who can provide "relevant factual information" and "firsthand knowledge," Povero said during an Aug. 11 press conference.

"It is not outside the norm for a sprint driver to accelerate to turn the car to the left, and for that to cause the back of the car to slide right," Van Blarcom-Gupko said. "That would be an area where the experts would need to inform investigators as to the various reasonable ways for a sprint car driver to react in the situation."

Experts will also need to educate investigators on the technical aspects of a sprint car and how it reacts to have a full understanding of what happened.

Vehicular homicide is one charge that Stewart will not face. It is not applicable because Stewart was not under the influence of drugs/alcohol nor does he have a bad driving record, among other contributing factors.

Without knowing the full details of the investigation, Van Blarcom-Gupko can't gauge whether Stewart will ultimately face criminal charges. But in her estimation, the most likely charge Stewart could face, if he was to be charged, is criminally negligent homicide, a Class E felony in New York and "the lowest level of criminal charge because the conduct at issue did not warrant a higher charge." However, she is of the opinion that the known facts do not support the filing of any criminal charge against Stewart.

If convicted of negligent homicide, Stewart would face a sentence that is not to exceed four years in prison.

The civil side

Although no exact date has been set, whether Stewart will face any criminal charges is likely to be determined within the next couple of weeks, according to Povero. But criminal charges are not the only reason that could result in Stewart appearing in court, as a civil suit seems certain.

A wrongful death lawsuit against Stewart for his involvement in Ward's death is one option available to Ward's family. They would then be able to seek compensatory damages. The standard of proof is lower in civil court than in criminal court, but any potential decision would take into account Ward's actions on the night he was killed.

Although somewhat of an accepted practice, Ward did walk toward the section of the track where cars were moving 30-to-35 mph, and he did so wearing a black fire suit and black helmet. The defense will almost certainly raise the question of whether Stewart even saw Ward, and if he did, at what juncture and how much time did he have to react.

"Stewart would contend that Ward's conduct leaving his car and going onto the racing surface contributed to his death," Van Blarcom-Gupko said. "Unfortunately, if Ward had remained in his vehicle, the outcome would be different and that has legal implications.

"New York is a pure comparative negligence state, which means that even if Ward is deemed to have negligently contributed to his death, it does not serve as a bar to recovery. Rather, whatever damages are awarded will be reduced in proportion to Ward's negligence. Thus, regardless of whether the jury allocated anywhere between one percent and 99 percent of the negligence on Ward, his family could still recover the remaining percentage attributed to Stewart."

In all likelihood, Stewart would seek an out-of-court settlement with the family to avoid a drawn-out process that could entangle sponsors and his race teams.

A lawsuit could also be filed against Canandaigua for contributing to Ward's death through improper lightning or a lack of other safety measures -- i.e., not having a rule in place that prohibited drivers from exiting their cars following a wreck. However, that would require a showing that Canandaigua had conditions that deviated from what is standard for similar racetracks.

Stewart's sponsors could be sued for supporting and funding a driver with behavior that could be deemed reckless.

"One arguable theory for a sponsorship suit would be that they allowed Tony to race their car even though they knew his reputation for altercations," Van Blarcom-Gupko said. "However, in general, it is complicated to demonstrate liability against a sponsor when their role is generally to provide funding and have no say in the day-to-day operations of or exercise no control over the team, car or driver."

Because Stewart was driving for Tony Stewart Racing and not Stewart-Haas Racing, there is no legal basis for the family to include the NASCAR team in a lawsuit, Van Blarcom-Gupko believes. Therefore, the organization that also fields cars for Danica Patrick, Kevin Harvick and Kurt Busch would not be threatened.

SHR could be impacted from the residual effects of any potential criminal charges or civil suit. Stewart's sponsors, which include high-profile associations with Bass Pro Shops, Mobil 1 and Chevrolet, could dissolve their relationships citing morals clauses typically found in contracts if Stewart were to be criminally charged.

"Some sponsors may be willing to ride out the criminal process to the end before pulling out to allow Tony the benefit of innocent until proven guilty," Van Blarcom-Gupko said, "and others may try to find a legal way out of the agreement quickly to avoid going through the criminal and even the civil process."

Somewhat of an accepted practice, really?

Criminal case, not a chance, unless you get a prosecutor that wants to meet somebody famous so they can get their name in the paper. Civil suit will definitely happen. When they get to the contributory negligence part, they will talk about how much he would have been hurt if he stayed in his car, the actually accepted practice, versus what happened. In the end, the only people that will come out okay are the attorneys.

You're damn right they're hunkering-down. And not because of some sense of accidental wrongdoing or remorse over the kid's death. They're trying to protect the business, period. They're sweating over how much it'll take to buy-off the Ward family (if they can be bought-off) and whether Tony's 'brand' has been irreparably damaged.

Follow the money.

...and you would doing the same thing if it were you.

Of course I would, it's the smart thing to do when you have any assets at all and you've put them at risk by being irresponsible. My point, should you need me to clarify, is that Stewart is not remorseful, he's in danger of losing his brand and he now has to pay for his lack of emotional self-control. In other words, he put his brand at risk needlessly and now his handlers have to limit the damage.

BE911SC....that's a bold statement.

I dont follow NASCAR or TS, but I have followed this thread... So I'm an expert :)

So I'll chime in nonetheless:
- I personally would be very afraid of saying the wrong thing in public, either that was considered insensitive or that might help punish me.
- As a media observer, it is completely lost on me what the man could say at this point that would truly help the family. He certainly cannot help the deceased. He cannot make his surviving loved ones feel any better.
- I know nothing of NASCAR brands, but if like other businesses, I would think that only a paid professional should relay any comments. A very well written, heart-felt condolence statement delivered personally to the survivors and then STFU - until the pain lessens and the cameras are (mostly) turned off.

I don't know how wealthy TS is, but if the deceased has any children and TS could afford it, setting up a fund to pay for the children's education would be a move that could actually, truly do some good - much better from most of these stupid wrongful-death settlements. It might also make life a tad bit easier for TS as well. If he has a normal conscience, this will be troubling to live with for a very long time. I'm reminded of the (almost cliche now) suggestion from Field of Dreams: "Ease their pain." It might ease his too.

this is the bottom line...nascar is likewise trying to save their business. the potential ripple effect here is quite prodigious.

knowing his history which incidentally nascar has nurtured...this is my position too.

Do you know him personally?
Have you spoken to him?
Did he tell you this?

This is a real reach.

read my previous posts...I have laid out the process as it has and will unfold. much of what you cite is correct.

It's pretty disgusting to me that in our world, this individual was tragically killed, and the first thing everyone is concerned about is how it will affect their bank account.

NASCAR and TS/Race team

just as disgusting as

the Ward family being "bought-off"

You know ding dong dang well...that no sooner did Tony go into hibernation, the family started discussing lawsuits and the potential $

I'm not implying what I would or wouldn't do, but it's just sad that this is the knee jerk of society.

I agree with your sentiments exactly.

I will say this however, I hope the france crime family takes this on the chin too. a sad situation indeed.

Okay, I'll grant it's a reach. Not much of a reach though. For all you guys who keep saying what a nice guy Tony is here's what that might be. If you read about sociopathic behavior you learn of what's called the "charm offensive." The sociopath, whether in business, romance or murder*, charms his targets--his enemies, competitors and anyone else who may be a threat to his personal success. The sociopath lulls the opposition into a sense of trust, ease and complacency and then makes the kill. Guys like Stewart can turn on the charm as needed, whether he's on live TV, selling Coke or just doing a meet and greet with fans. If you're no threat then he's fine and a "nice guy" to be around. But if you're a potential threat then he's going to go to work on you. He'll use the charm offensive if he has no other option. If that works and you're subdued then okay. But if you resist and oppose then you might get the other side of the charm offensive, the attack offensive. Crowd me with your car? BAM, into the wall you go. Wreck me into the wall? BAM goes my helmet into your windshield.

Stewart is successful because he attacks his competition. Fair enough. We expect competitors to compete and even throw a few punches once in a while. But my measure of Stewart is that he is a sociopath with 'anger management' issues and does not like to be threatened competitively or otherwise and he uses his temper and physical behavior to respond. None of that Jeff Gordon nice guy stuff for Tony. Cut him off and your ass is going into the wall.

So again, when Stewart saw the kid trying to get in his face out there on the track, he didn't slow or swerve away, he went right at him, maybe flipping him off, and probably in a sudden rage over seeing the kid there in the track daring to be mad at him. F..k me? No, F..K YOU. BAM.

A teary-eyed televised apology would help toward showing some remorse but that's not what Stewart is made of. Sociopaths don't do remorse, guilt or sorrow and they only apologize, begrudgingly, when their lawyer says it's time to do so. A charm offensive isn't going to fix this one. That's why they're hunkered-down.

How's that for a reach?

*As for murder, Charles Manson used the charm offensive to get others to murder for him. Those runaways loved him and would, and did, do anything for him. No, I'm not directly comparing Manson to Stewart but there are similar sociopathic behaviors at play here.

More light reading:
charm offensive: definition of charm offensive in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

Superficial charm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Winning the championship and firing your crew chief in the same day?

^^^interesting reading above. I think many of these guys are WAY different when the cameras are not on them.

How is that for a reach...astronomical perhaps? The fact that you can draw a conclusion as to Tony Stewarts mental health condition from media reports shows how little you understand mental health. Your "measure" is being accomplished without a yard stick....

As for Tony's personality, I've met him, and know people who work with him, and wrote a post with some data points, but then deleted it as it was poorly written. I've actually tried to write a response on this a few times throughout the thread, I just can't find the right words and have deleted what I wrote the first time I read it. Tony is someone that believes he got to where he is by hard work, and looks down on anyone he thinks is slacking, or got to where they are without "working for it". He's not what I would call a nice guy, and he's not one to falsely "buddy buddy" with people. When Tony saw Ward running on the track, I am at least 00.0001% sure that what went through his mind was "What is this dumbass(or clown) doing?" followed by "Oh ****". I do know a driver that exactly fits the profile you outlined, and I have never gotten that vibe from TS.

BE911, here's a look at Tony's placement on the track. It would appear Tony was following the path of the car in front of Tony, which is what you are supposed to do per the rule book for when a track goes yellow. The leader slows to pace speed and becomes the pace car, and the rest of the field drives above pace speeder to form up into a single file line. This is per the rule book, and Tony is not doing anything out of ordinary.

I don't want some of you guys on my jury....

The end result of the way our USA court system works, is it looks for the most ignorant people it can find for a jury. The less facts the jurors have, the more their decision will be based solely on what is said in court.

I would use the term "uninformed". "Ignorant" has a bad connotation.

I watched a lot of that Zimmerman trial during the day and the hyperbole at night. Vastly different. I learned a whole lot too. I hope this doesn't go to trial, but there would be much to learn. Many people won't learn under andly circumstances...their mind is made up.

So what reason would Stewart have to be angry with Ward?

There are really only three possibilities for what happened.

1: Stewart intentionally ran him over.

2: Stewart was being an ass hole and wanted to scare him, "Squirt dirt at him" or something similar.

3: Stewart didn't see Ward until it was too late and did the best he could in a car that is difficult to control at slow speeds to avoid him, and came up short.

One is Just stupid. Nobody with more than three brain cells thinks Stewart intentionally killed Ward.

Two is certainly possible, after all, he is an ass hole. Since he is such an ass hole, people are coming out of the woodwork with examples of how he has done such things in the past, squirting other sprint car drivers with dirt, or revving his engine as he passed them really close. Wait, they aren't? Huh. He did throw his helmet at another driver that took him out of a race once, and that is exactly the same thing. Right? Right?

Three. This is what the driver two cars behind him believes, and I suspect he had a better view of the action than the video from the stands.

It's funny...you guys are holding a mock trial for him here and absolutely no one knows whether he did #2 or #3 on emcom's list. I'd vote for #2 but with absolutely no intention of hitting him, these guys are so good in a car that he probably thought he could untie the guy's shoelace with his spinning tire and slap him in the face at the same time. The amount of skill and cockiness this guy had, (past tense), was off the charts.

But I really don't know.

I vote for 2 also. by the way, he is being tried on many websites where cars or racing is the content.

he could probably end some of the pre-trial activities if he were to surface like an innocent man...but his handlers have other ideas and I suspect there is a serious reason for the deafening silence.

the ward family has been quite silent to my knowledge. a deal may be in the works?

jest speculating but ya never know...

Hey, at least I admitted my opinion was a reach! That's a hell of a lot more than you usually get on the Internet!

I've dealt with many a sociopath in my life, male and female. I know one when I see one. As for Stewart's work ethic, it was never in question by me. Damn right he worked hard to get where he is as a successful driver--I said as much in my last post. (If I didn't then I am now.) Again, I question his state of mind and why it goes where it seems to go.

I've seen this act before with sociopathic behavior and it is my opinion, repeat, my opinion that Stewart is deeply sociopathic with anger management issues. So are a lot of financially successful people. Stewart, however, acts out in public in front of millions of racing fans and there is now a death involved.

Does not matter what he says, the court of popular opinions mind will not be changed, those who think he is guilty will simply think he is a guilty and a liar.

I'll take #2 and wish it was #3. I'll split the difference and consider that the kid could have stumbled or misjudged his distance to Stewart's car while Stewart was trying to get/stay close to him to humiliate him with a dirt spraying.

He was angry with Ward because they had been racing hard and Stewart finally ran him into the wall to show him who the Alpha Dog is. Ward then had the audacity to challenge Stewart out there on the track, a-la Tony Stewart, and #2 happened.

PURE speculation your Honor! I call this to be struck from the record.

And that's why you stay away from juries. (I have firsthand experience with that too.) And that's why Stewart's corporate law team is working furiously behind the scenes to get this settled without a jury trial. You don't want Stewart on the stand like Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men" getting angry and admitting he drove at Ward to scare him. "YOU'RE GODDAM RIGHT I DID!" On the other hand, he could get a sympathetic jury the way O.J. Simpson did and walk. His lawyers want to pay his way out of this and move forward. If that is possible.

I agree. I even used the word "opinion." They're like a-holes: everyone has one.

Wow.

You know Stewart doesn't always win, right? He gets beat regularly in sprint cars. In other words every weekend dozens of drivers have "the audacity to challenge Stewart out there on the track". So there must be dozens of examples of Stewart doing something similar. Right?

Can the folks who still think Stewart wanted to scare him, "Squirt dirt at him" come up with even one example of him doing anything similar in the past?

Do you see contact between Stewart and Ward's cars in the video? I don't. It looked to me like Ward ran out of track and looped it on his own. So with no mirrors, and no radio, how would Stewart even know Ward spun?

Thanks for proving my point.

If you want results, here are last years, cut short when he broke his leg.

http://www.tonystewart.com/raceschedule?seriesid=3&seasonid=3

Accident, no one comes out good. Smoke will rise. Some real hambone views here.

Well said.