Adrian Peterson and child "abuse"

[biosurfer1]

I'm sure most have seen the news that Adrian Peterson of the Vikings was arrested for child abuse and has been released.

I have mixed emotions about this one. Yes, he used a switch, which was used on him as a kid, and that may have crossed the line. But he kept the mother in the loop why he did it, which was while he loved his son, he would also learn that there are consequences for acting out.

The problem I have is where is the line? My wife is a teacher and sees first hand many, many kids who have grown up without any kind of discipline and there is just about nothing you can do to punish these kids. They know nothing will happen to them, so why listen to any one in authority?

I know child abuse is real, I'm just not sure this was it in this specific case. I know tons of friends that were spanked, is that ok? What about a wooden spoon? A paddle?

Thoughts?

[peppy]

The child was 4 and had marks on him a few days later as seen by a doctor, after he returned to Minnesota from Texas.

I have no problem with a swift pop to a butt, but no switch on a 4 yo.

[Schrup]

I don't understand why it's not acceptable to hit a women, but many believe it's ok to strike a child.

[john70t]

At 4yo, I don't think young humans are even cognizant of morality and principals.
Mostly instinctual.
That said, mom and dad should have tried to make love and attention, not distrust and fear, the primary instincts in junior.
Love goes a longer way in teaching.

[Evans, Marv]

I grew up with that kind of discipline. While I wouldn't beat a kid, a judicious whack once in a while to get their attention isn't a bad thing in my opinion. I think withholding things they would want and expect would make just as big, or bigger impression.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Schrup

I don't understand why it's not acceptable to hit a women, but many believe it's ok to strike a child.

It's perfectly ok to spank a kid occasionally.

Same goes for women, but much more often.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by john70t

At 4yo, I don't think young humans are even cognizant of morality and principals.
Mostly instinctual.
That said, mom and dad should have tried to make love and attention, not distrust and fear, the primary instincts in junior.
Love goes a longer way in teaching.

I don't know, 4 or 5 years old, sometimes a little fear of things is healthy. I'm ok with spanking. I was spanked, but not often. I am pretty certain that I never had marks that lasted until the following day or probably even an hour later.

[widgeon13]

I was hit with a hair brush, wooden hangar and wooden ruler as a child. The first two by my mother and the ruler by a nun in parochial school. I was also paddled by a teacher in parochial school.

At least Adrian Peterson has some idea of discipline while raising a child. Some one is trying to make an example of him.

[stomachmonkey]

Hell my father used to make us fetch a switch, ? "boy, go get me something to beat you with"

If Peterson got indicted for this my father would have been serving multiple life sentences.

Consequently I'm not a fan of corporal punishment.

I will admit on one or two occasions giving each of mine a swat on the rear with the palm of my hand.

Sometimes kids can get themselves so worked up their system needs a reboot.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by masraum

I don't know, 4 or 5 years old, sometimes a little fear of things is healthy. I'm ok with spanking. I was spanked, but not often. I am pretty certain that I never had marks that lasted until the following day or probably even an hour later.

There's a time and place for everything, but a switch on a 4yo is pretty extreme.

It's not really a good comparison, but raising our dog these last two years has been hell. I've had three dogs, all good, but this one was difficult beyond belief. He started biting on me as well as an alpha-dominance thing, I'd flip him on his back, then he'd bite even more.
(Pooping in the house and stealing shoes are separate issues which are related to separation anxiety. Not punishable under any circumstance.)
In the end, getting harder on him only made him sheepish and scared. I realized I would end up with a broken dog. Definitely not what I wanted. I wanted a happy confident animal that wanted to be around me.
I changed tactics: Walk him often under my rules, strict heel policy in streets, wear him out, spend lots of time, acclimate him to all types of situations, and when I scold him I make him look at me in the eyes(pinch the chin), use a low tone, and always ended with bonding and good dog. That's what worked. His eyes are on me now for approval. He's a great dog, usually.

A few days ago I was in a store and heard "If I had to deal with two more of you I'd go crazy." I look over, and there is grandpa with a 3-4 yo girl in the cart. Awww that's sweet. Gramps is spending time with baby, and has an sarcastic sense of humor.
Well it turned out it wasn't so sweet.
I bumped into them several more times in 15-20 minutes. He was still at it but not in a nice way. He was saying all kinds of the most psychological hateful and degrading things. "You know your momma didn't want you and gonna ship you off to the farm" "You ain't never gonna amount to s*** little b****". The kid was in tears. WTF. I wanted to say something but didn't.
That poor kid is going to grow up damaged her entire life.

[KevinP73]

I grew up in an abusive household. My father was a lifer (U.S. Army) My sister and I were beaten with just about everything imaginable, clenched fist, wooden spoons, leather belts, all under the guise of discipline.
In my opinion anything other than the palm of the hand ONE time on the butt is ABUSE. You're dealing with a child and if you can't manage your kid without beating them into submission you don't deserve children. I've raised two daughters in my time. One loves me one hates me but both of them will tell you I NEVER even so much as spanked either one of them and they are both decent respectful people.

[carambola]

open hand, over a diaper.

if you need to do that after then you missed too many opportunities

[jyl]

Times and society change.

Separate facilities for Negroes, no votes for women, hundreds of coal miners dying yearly, chain smoking in maternity wards, kids playing on the package shelf at 70 mph, all sorts of things were accepted once and are not acceptable today.

I don't think too many people are not aware that beating a four year old child hard with a switch is on the "not acceptable" side on the line. If they are unaware, then maybe this will clear it up.

[Red88Carrera]

This is the slow erosion of society. Nobody is advocating "beating them into submission", but we live in a nanny state now that doesn't allow parental discretion. A long walk out to the back yard and back to get your device of discipline gives you alot of time to think about what you have done.

[Tobra]

Corporal punishment is not so abhorrent as some apparently believe it is. Different kids are going to respond to different punishments. "Go pick me out a switch" is something hundreds of kids have heard. A thin switch is going to sting and leave a stripe for a few days. What worked best on me when I was a lad was to be prevented from going outside. I would rather get the razor strap than to be made to sit in the corner.

There is a difference between discipline and abuse. It seems that any sort of physical discipline is now considered abuse. Spare the rod and spoil the child is a very real thing, and is one of the myriad things wrong with this country. If you doubt it, go to any shopping mall and watch how young folks act.

Mr Peterson is sadly a fairly rare individual, a black father that is intimately involved in raising his kids. There ought to be more like him.

[widgeon13]

I was having similar thoughts. But because he is very visible we will make an example of him.

No telling how many millions of parents verbally abuse their children and yet there is no way to measure or deter that behavior by parents.

Originally Posted by Tobra

Corporal punishment is not so abhorrent as some apparently believe it is. Different kids are going to respond to different punishments. "Go pick me out a switch" is something hundreds of kids have heard. A thin switch is going to sting and leave a stripe for a few days. What worked best on me when I was a lad was to be prevented from going outside. I would rather get the razor strap than to be made to sit in the corner.

There is a difference between discipline and abuse. It seems that any sort of physical discipline is now considered abuse. Spare the rod and spoil the child is a very real thing, and is one of the myriad things wrong with this country. If you doubt it, go to any shopping mall and watch how young folks act.

Mr Peterson is sadly a fairly rare individual, a black father that is intimately involved in raising his kids. There ought to be more like him.

[scottmandue]

I was rarely spanked or paddled as a child.
IMHO whipping a 4 year old is way overboard... light spanking sure but whipping to the point that a doctor see evidence days later?

These type of discussions always seem to degrade to "well, my father attached electrode to my genitalia at a child and I came out OK!"

Good thing he wasn't whipping a dog... then he would be in real trouble.

[Red88Carrera]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I was rarely spanked or paddled as a child.
IMHO whipping a 4 year old is way overboard... light spanking sure but whipping to the point that a doctor see evidence days later?

These type of discussions always seem to degrade to "well, my father attached electrode to my genitalia at a child and I came out OK!"

Good thing he wasn't whipping a dog... then he would be in real trouble.

A light spanking does nothing IMO. Nobody is talking about "whipping" a 4 y.o. either. Of course a switch is probably going to leave a mark. Not the end of the world. What matters when applying discipline(at any age) isn't the actual "beating", but the precursor to. In order for it to be effective, the individual needs to have time to ponder the impending results of his actions. Apparently you are not a military veteran?

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

Apparently you are not a military veteran?

No, not sure why that is relative to this conversation? My dad was in the Air Force back in WWII does that count? FWIW Adrian Peterson is "not a military veteran" either.
I am also city boy and have never been "switched", as I understand it involves cutting a small branch from a tree and then using it on the child?
Still seems excessive to me.

[Red88Carrera]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

No, not sure why that is relative to this conversation?
I am also city boy and have never been "switched", as I understand it involves cutting a small branch from a tree and then using it on the child?

I think you may mean "relevant"?

The reference to being a military veteran is suggested because that's how they instill discipline. You are always aware that there is a consequence to your actions.

Without discipline, there is no respect. Without respect, you can't lead. That's what a parent was supposed to do many years ago. Not so much anymore...