Shrinking ice proved climate change. Now growing does too?

[cstreit]

Seriously? First the ice caps were going to be completely gone. ...now they are growing at an accelerated rate... .

Does Antarctic sea ice growth negate climate change? Scientists say no - LA Times

[aap1966]

"Climate change" is not about science, it's about religion (and politics). Shall we PARF this thread now and avoid the rush later?

[sammyg2]

Social engineering doesn't always make sense, just go with it.

[AFC-911]

The operative word is change.

The climate is still changing. It still affects wildlife (penguins, polar bears, etc). It also affects weather patterns all over the globe.

I've seen the retreating glaciers of Alaska, Canada and Iceland. I don't think the entire globe is going to warm up. Some places will get hotter, some will grow colder. But the point is that it will be different from what it used to be.

[IROC]

Here's another explanation of the phenomenon:

Is Antarctica losing or gaining ice?

[Seahawk]

These guys drive Progressives crazy because they are smart progressives. Their magazine is great, BTW.

The Breakthrough Institute - Home

This is from their review of Naomi Klein's book, 'This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate':

...Unfortunately, the result is a garbled mess stumbling endlessly over its own contradictions. Her understanding of the technical aspects of energy policy — indispensable for any serious discussion of sustainability — is weak and biased, marked by a myopic boosterism of renewables and an unthinking rejection of nuclear power and other low-carbon energy sources. Having declared climate change an “existential crisis for the human species,” she rules out some of the most effective means of dealing with it.

This guy can write:

For all its vehemence, Klein’s everythingism — her conviction that everything is threatened, that everything must change, that everything is settled about how to change, and that everything will be reconciled in the coming state of nature — falls far short of a useful call to action. A book about changing everything needs to know how everything works and interacts so as to set priorities and strike balances, but Klein proceeds more by romantic enthusiasm and anathema than by detailed knowledge and analysis. Her views are all the more troubling because they faithfully reflect the received wisdom on the Left about environmental and climate policy. Given the vigor of the green movement and its impressive success at influencing policy makers and capturing the public imagination, these ideas will help shape the world’s response to global warming. Klein’s book therefore provokes a disturbing question: having done so much to put the crucial issue of climate change on the agenda, does the Left have anything coherent to say about it?

[PetrolBlueSC]

Actually, climate change is all about science, but the US has a poor understanding of science and how to make decisions based on it. So, we move forward thinking we live in God's terrarium and everything will be ok, despite the evidence. We are really to the point that the question is not about climate change, but how can people continue to reject the overwhelming data supporting it. It's more of a psychology questions now, and not a science question.

[cairns]

We are really to the point that the question is not about climate change, but how can people continue to reject the overwhelming data supporting it.

That's not the question at all. The climate has always changed and will continue to. The question is what is man doing to affect that change and what should we be doing or not doing to minimize that effect?

That's is a far from settled answer- the WSJ had a very good piece on it last week. To summarize: we, in short, still have very little have very little idea about how our behavior affects the planet. That's not to say we shouldn't be doing some things that are obvious (like mandating cleaner air or water or recycling for example) but to say we're ignoring the "overwhelming" data is disengenuous. We're not even sure if we have or are collecting the right data much less what it means. It's still very much a science question. And what we do or don't do while pondering those answers is very much open to argument- for example, is mandating electric vehicles really good for the environment? Should we be imposing carbon taxes when an economy is at a standstill and scientists aren't sure what CO2 emissions are really doing to the planet?

Climate Science Is Not Settled - WSJ

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by AFC-911

The operative word is change.

The climate is still changing. It still affects wildlife (penguins, polar bears, etc). It also affects weather patterns all over the globe.

I've seen the retreating glaciers of Alaska, Canada and Iceland. I don't think the entire globe is going to warm up. Some places will get hotter, some will grow colder. But the point is that it will be different from what it used to be.

It was different 1,000 years ago... and 10,000 and 100,000. In fact IIRC it has always been changing. The infamous hockey-stick graph was an out of context slice.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by PetrolBlueSC

Actually, climate change is all about science, but the US has a poor understanding of science and how to make decisions based on it. So, we move forward thinking we live in God's terrarium and everything will be ok, despite the evidence. We are really to the point that the question is not about climate change, but how can people continue to reject the overwhelming data supporting it. It's more of a psychology questions now, and not a science question.

THE DATA TO SUPPORT THE SCAM DOESN'T FRICKING EXIST!!!
THAT IS THE POINT WE ARE MAKING!!!
ALL THE PREDICTIONS TURNED OUT TO BE CRAP!!!

PS: manbearpig isn't real either.

[PetrolBlueSC]

We need to reduce the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. There can be lots of answers, but the total of the answers must start to move the CO2 concentration lower. Anything else is a waste of time. My question about people believing was silly. If there was a meteorite about to hit earth, and it could be seen in the sky, people would still deny it. So how do you mount a response to a threat that so many people keep looking for a reason to not believe. While individual humans may be intelligent, as a group I suspect that we will not be intelligent enough to respond is timely and effective way.
Regarding climate "change". I agree, the climate has always changed, but now it is changing in response to our actions and not natural forces. Folks need to let go of poorly presented climate data in the past. Let go of Al Gore. Look at the data. Sure there are contradictions, but the overwhelming trend recently is warming that overrides natural fluctuations.

Regard climate "change". I agree, the climate has always changed, but now it is changing in response to our actions and not natural forces. Folks need to let go of poorly presented climate data in the past. Let of of Al Gore, and look at the data. Sure there are contridictions, but the overwhelming trend recently is warming that overrides natural flucuations.

[wayner]

Regardless of one's position on this subject, you gotta love the ingenuity of the people who decided to stop calling it global warming and rebranded it as climate change.

It virtually guarantees that anyone who supports that notion will not be wrong no matter what direction things go

[island911]

Originally Posted by PetrolBlueSC

Actually, climate change is all about science, but the US has a poor understanding of science and how to make decisions based on it. So, we move forward thinking we live in God's terrarium and everything will be ok, despite the evidence. We are really to the point that the question is not about climate change, but how can people continue to reject the overwhelming data supporting it. It's more of a psychology questions now, and not a science question.

What evidence?

What overwhelming data?

[island911]

Snow in Egypt for the first time in 112 years

[speeder]

There is overwhelming evidence that man-made causes in the last 100 years have drastically changed the ecological balance of earth. The ozone layer is greatly affected, sea levels are rising, the oceans are warming, species dying-off and otherwise having habitats altered, etc., etc., etc...

Scientists who study the data, (and are not on the payroll of some polluting industry), agree to an indisputable degree. Here's all you need to remember:

"Science is not a debate between scientists and non-scientists. It never has been and it never will be. Science is decided by scientists, not idiots."

[island911]

Originally Posted by PetrolBlueSC

....
Regarding climate "change". I agree, the climate has always changed, but now it is changing in response to our actions and not natural forces. Folks need to let go of poorly presented climate data in the past. Let go of Al Gore. Look at the data. Sure there are contradictions, but the overwhelming trend recently is warming that overrides natural fluctuations. ....

If you actually do Look at the data you will find a major problem.

That is, climate scientists have been hoping for correlation between rising CO₂ levels and rising global temps. Problem is, they are not finding it.

Now a reasonable person would celebrate this. Yet, the 'climate scientists' twist and turn, trying, and hoping, to land on some supportive correlation ... all in an effort to be able to more easily sell causation.

And there is their problem. They have been selling AGW causation as undisputable, for decades now - in a cart before the horse kind of way. Yet, those facts - they are a stubborn thing.

[island911]

Originally Posted by speeder

There is overwhelming evidence that man-made causes in the last 100 years have drastically changed the ecological balance of earth. The ozone layer is greatly affected, sea levels are rising, the oceans are warming, species dying-off and otherwise having habitats altered, etc., etc., etc...

Scientists who study the data, (and are not on the payroll of some polluting industry), agree to an indisputable degree. Here's all you need to remember:

"Science is not a debate between scientists and non-scientists. It never has been and it never will be. Science is decided by scientists, not idiots."

Clearly you know nothing about science.

[PetrolBlueSC]

Regarding snow in Egypt, wild swings was/is a prediction made by climate scientist. Thanks for posting the pic.

[island911]

Ever consider we're in a CO₂ Famine?

Where do plants get 'food'? (hint, ryhms with CO₂)

Where do we get food?

You want a greener earth?...

Prominent Scientist Tells Congress: Earth in ‘CO2 Famine’

‘The increase of CO2 is not a cause for alarm and will be good for mankind’

‘Children should not be force-fed propaganda, masquerading as science’

Washington, DC — Award-winning Princeton University Physicist Dr. Will Happer declared man-made global warming fears “mistaken” and noted that the Earth was currently in a “CO2 famine now.” Happer, who has published over 200 peer-reviewed scientific papers, made his remarks during today’s Environment and Public Works Full Committee Hearing entitled “Update on the Latest Global Warming Science.”

“Many people don’t realize that over geological time, we’re really in a CO2 famine now. Almost never has CO2 levels been as low as it has been in the Holocene (geologic epoch) – 280 (parts per million - ppm) – that’s unheard of. Most of the time [CO2 levels] have been at least 1000 (ppm) and it’s been quite higher than that,” Happer told the Senate Committee.

continued... .: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :.

I guess that Princeton University Physicist Dr. Will Happer just doesn't understand science

[island911]

Originally Posted by PetrolBlueSC

Regarding snow in Egypt, wild swings was/is a prediction made by climate scientist. Thanks for posting the pic.

While a lot of things were predicted snow in Egypt was not one of them.

The "wild swings' predicted centered about higher energy storms.