Funny, that what they use to teach, drive a nail with two whacks. I can never do that but did not swing much hammer in my younger days. Thank fully I always hired out. When I was old enough, I bought nail guns. Screw that two whacks stuff:D

What size nail? Two hits? 16d?

22. Tie a tie....

Younger generation and tools
 

When my son got close to driving age, I bought a worn out Dodge Dakota pickup and "allowed" him to help rebuild it. If he was not out helping, nothing got done on the truck! Since this was going to be the only vehicle he would be allowed to drive, he pitched right in. Later, while in college, he was co-oping at a tech lab and volunteered to fix a broken wind tunnel that was badly needed. His boss was amazed that he had an engineering student that could use tools! Since that time, he has repaired his vehicles a number of times and can pretty much do anything around his house. Just don't ask him to go outside and kill a snake! I believe that he would move to another state first!

Hey cluster of consonants , wondering just what you get out of this silly repeating of earlier posts? You add nothing to our discussions. Just waste space here.

Are you enjoying wasting your and our time? I'm not sure I under stand what you get from doing this?

Again, it's the parents fault. I did my first engine pull at 14 years old, solo. We do it all for them.

Older generations love to analyze the younger and say how useless they are now. There are plenty of young screw ups now but there were plenty then as well. The world's not getting dumber. Quite the opposite.

Its a spam-bot. They are all over Pelican. Easy to recognize and ignore :)

Knuckleheads and useless fools exist among all generations.

I grew up geeky and soft. My metamorphosis into a studly man began when my father bought a 1970 MGB convertible. We worked on getting that car up to snuff, and later I took the car with me to school in Atlanta. During one trip down to Atlanta, the points in the distributor crapped. I had to install and gap new points in the blistering summer heat of Alabama. The span of 20 minutes saw my emotions transform from dread to pride as I repaired the car. I finally knew I could fix anything on that car.

A few years later, I decided an office engineering job was not for me, and I went into landlording (buying and fixing distressed single family homes). I honed my witchcraft so eventually I could wear a toolbelt with authority. It's not about the ego, but rather, the confidence and pride of knowing I can do anything I set out to accomplish.

Kids need to be put in positions to accomplish. Dads need to stop taking cars to the dealer for oil changes and let the kids get greasy. Surely, one doesn't have to change their own oil to be a man, but you have to start kids somewhere. They won't build a storage shed if they don't take baby steps first. Also, those baby steps foster a creative, problem-solving mind.

Jurgen

My daughter does all the home repair/maintenance chores in her little family. Easy stuff, like lighting a water heater, changing the air filter, etc.
The other day I talked her through readjusting the door lock switch in the dishwasher over the phone. Once inside, she figured it out herself.
My son in law could never have done it, even if I had been there looking over his shoulder.

So sad...
My daughter just calls him a wuss and breaks out the tools. They are hers, BTW.

Carter

See my avatar.

On a brighter note, a friend of ours keeps us updated on her son, now 15.
A couple of years ago, he got an old lawn mower from a neighbor, fixed it (with a little help from his dad) and started doing lawns and dragging home other "junk".
This year he bought a F-150 with a bad motor, found another motor and had the transplant done last month.
If this kid doesn't become a mechanic there will be some serious talent wasted.

Best
Les

The world is getting more "book smart". But thats about it.
There is a huge difference between being intelligent and having the ability to apply it.

Motion nailed it. We are turning to technology to get us through life. That a bad thing. Technology fails at times. You need to have a backup. That backup is quickly disappearing.


.

That statement is quite an absolute.

While on one hand, you can argue that we are smarter because we have a deeper understanding of many things like DNA sequencing, the mysteries of the universe (Bring Pluto back!), and medicine. Technology is a major driving force in most of this.

On the other hand, the very same technology which has enabled man to gain more understanding of the universe around him has also enabled him to essentially use less of his brain: why try to figure something out when a computer in my hand can answer just about any question I have? (And I don't even need to type anything - just verbally ask it a question!)

So while today we have the ability to understand more than before, it does not enable us to improve one category of knowledge: the ability to reason, figure things out, and what is generally known as common sense. A key to this is observation. And the general populace does not pay attention long enough to anything (except their smart phones) to be able to apply observational skills, and thus skills like deduction and analytical reasoning are diminished. Again: why should one figure out something when wikipedia has all the answers at my fingertips?!?

Now one would argue that without having to use reason and analytical skills to figure things out, our brains would be free to process, compute, and calculate more 'stuff.' I simply don't see this happening, except for those who still work their brains the old fashioned way.

So the question is: are people getting smarter, or are they relying on smarter technology to get by?

I agree somewhat. A few things happened, none of them a problem, but they insulated the past generation or so for the need to get involved with "things'.

Most of the machines I grew up with and interacted with everyday were inefficient and required constant, little maintenance actions to keep well sorted.

I can remember packing wheel bearings with my Dad, adjusting carbs and greasing hinge points on our family station wagon before long trips in the 1970's. We carried all the essential items with us plus the tools to install them.

Those days are over. Cars are appliances that run and run and run. Scratch one opportunity to get to know how to trace an electric short. That reliability and endurance has come with complexity. Beyond some simple trouble shooting tips I've learned over the years, AAA baby.

Even tires are 100% better these days.

The price of repair and the cost of buying new has narrowed considerably: That *****en' set of tools dad had to repair the TV? Nope. My best friend from HS owns two appliance repair shops in California. He said they have gone from 75% repair to 25% repair: He had to start selling new to survive.

Urbanization. Kids are now almost completely isolated from the means of production on every day items, from food to other consumables. Agritourism is huge in my area: On any given fall weekend the folks from DC arrive here en mass to stroll through a corn maze, pick fruit, pumpkins and berries; farmers here make a lot of money selling things that were once ubiquitous, at least when I was a kid.

Manufacturing improvements. CNC machines, robots and other manufacturing automation means a lot of entry level manufacturing jobs are no longer available.

So much more but the key for me is that learning how to fix things, which entails problem solving and common sense, just isn't required that much anymore. It simply isn't.

Where I live the quality spread is just like it was: A good mix of the useless and skilled.:cool:

I know a guy older than me that was a pilot for one of the armed services branches. I can guarantee he has not flown in combat because combat does not follow an outline. He cannot function if it does not follow his outline. His basic troubleshooting skills are basically non-existent. He may be smart, but he cant function outside his normal parameters.

I know a lot of younger generations that are the same. When it hits the fan they cease to function properly.

Back in my single days I was at a girlfriends house and she wanted to go to the store so she could buy a new microwave oven. I helped haul it in and get it set up. She then asked me to haul the old small microwave to the trash. I asked if she minded if I just took it home. She was puzzled as to why I would want it.

I opened it up and it was very obvious the fuse was blown. I had to unsolder the poor design and I replaced it with a fuse holder that was easy to replace the fuse. I put it together and I had a free microwave. Well it cost the few dollars of the fuse and the holder.

She was at my house a few day later and was amazed that I fixed it. I had nothing to lose so why not try?

She had never known anyone that was a fix it type. I taught her how to do a lot of small repairs. We broke up eventually but remained friends and she called me a few years later for advice. She had bought a house that was owned by a little old lady and it had not been updated or repaired for decades. She lived in the house and would work late into the night. She would start in one room and fix it all up and move to the next room. She had some simple plumbing issues I helped her with. That built up her confidence and she ripped out the entire kitchen and rebuilt it. She was slow but she did good work.

It took her several years but she fixed up that house and sold it for a very nice profit. She called me when it sold to thank me for fixing that old microwave oven and showing her how to fix things instead of just getting new.

Her entire family was just astonished that she could do any of the repairs.

My wife brings me stuff to fix and gets upset when I can't work magic on some broken POS. She now believes me when I say I'd need a complete machine shop and an injecton moulding machine to fix some widget and acts accordingly...bout time after 40 years.

The hot rod in the shop presents another problem. I now have "parchment skin" on my forearms......now they look like war torn Europe. The old bod no longer folds into the shapes required to get into spots like under the dash. Half the crap under there don't work......50 years of hammer mechanics take a toll.

The car looks good (from 20 feet), runs & drives OK, but the only instruments that report are those I've put in there (oil press & water temp) .....and the gas gauge from a previous life.

I'm getting old and can't remember when I learned to drive a nail. Maybe when my old man built out first real house.:D Can no longer do a 16d in two whacks tho.

I don't get this!!! How can the son in law sit around without thinking to himself: "I need to man-up and get some tools in my hands", "I need to demonstrate to my family that can keep this household running". I'm not saying he needs to be able to be able to re-roof the house or pour a new driveway but jeez the simple things at least.

I would have been mortified if I watched my wife perform these tasks (though proud of her abilities...) without stepping in and figuring it out.

It could be he is a lazy SOB like my daughter's partner.
He can't even be bothered to take the garbage out when he goes for another cigarette.:mad:

Or maybe he just doesn't see it as being "in his area of expertise".

Best
Les

My dad included me in all sorts of stuff, very grateful for it! Only one scar from it all remains, caught a drop of molten lead on my wrist while doing some casting.

I finally, at age 28, put some of the wood working to use in building a "fit" crate for my 944 engine head that supported the 5 sided shape and left the valve springs free.

well this thread sucks, and just JINXED me!!

i just spent the last four hours being totally schooled by a retired bridge engineer with a pocket protector stuffed full of pencils and rulers.

he finished me off by showing me some of the most epic excel spreadsheets EVER!!

us young guys dont know SQUAT!! i must now deconstruct some of the spreadsheets to see how they even effen work.
bonus!!!! he downloaded a version for the HP48GX calculator. i am now ready for any dumb question the contractor asks me about top of deck grades..hahhaha..

At least you were smart enough to listen to the old grey. :cool: :D

There has been a profound cultural change in my opinion. I believe that's something that can't be avoided over time with the changes. Growing up in the '50s was quite different than now. At that time, most kids were encouraged/expected to go out & get a part time job. Some families couldn't afford to give kids money, while some just believed it was the kid's responsibility to go out & get it. That doesn't even occur to anyone anymore. Plus there just aren't the opportunities for that now days with so much litigation and liability being thrown around. Employers have to be nervous about being sued over ridiculous things by people looking for that opportunity. Like some of you, I worked from around ten years old doing yards, cleaning local stores, moving irrigation pipe in fields and had a steady part time job working in a gas station before 15. By sixteen I worked four nights a week loading diesel trailers with milk at a dairy while going to school and participating in sports. Things do turn out OK for lots of kids though. I have two nephews. I used to kid them that they were just button pushers, and felt justified in doing that. Now the older one is finishing up an electrical engineering degree while working at Qualcom, and the other is fixing electronics on F22's. I have to admit it's not bad for a couple of button pushers.

Our 4 year old (5 on the 20th) decided he wanted to get a R/C bomber to share with me. He wanted to know how much it cost and how he could save for it. We wold him he had to save $100 and we would pay the rest. He does chores around the house and has save up $12 the last couple months. On vacation I was trying to get him to swim under water and offered to buy one for him outright if he would go under water and he said no, he was going to buy it.

Both of our kids were able to use basic tools and cordless drill/screwdriver at a young age. Jacob has worn out our small Channel Lock cordless "fixing" things. Emily helped me rebuild a carb at 5 and asked questions on how all of it worked. She doesn't remember now, but she was there to help. Both like working with their hands.

He will see a goal and work backwards to see how to achieve it. Our daughter is the opposite.

I look around at my kids' friends (and their parents), and can only shake my head in disappointment. My step-sons were well along on that path, too. I'm doing my absolute best to raise kids NOT like that. My step-son is 16 and has a job. He knows once he's 18, he's "on his own," whether that means moving out or paying me rent (unless he's actively in college). I forced him to get that job; like practically holding his hand through the damn process. He and his younger brother help me with everything I do on my cars, whether they want to or not. Younger step-son enjoys it; older one hates it, but at least I know some of it is sinking in, and will help him later in life.

My own kids, I've been pushing the hell out of them since day 1. I'm strict, but not an *******. My kids know I love them, and I take the time to explain WHY I push them to be their best. They know I don't expect perfection, but I do expect the best they can do. If they ask me a question about school work, or figuring out a project, I don't give them an answer; I make them talk to me about how they have tried to figure it out, and then I guide them into maybe another way of thinking through the problem. They can usually come up with the solution themselves after that.

I believe that my role as a parent is to ensure my kids can be successful in life, no matter what they choose to do. Holding their hands and doing everything for them will only accomplish the exact opposite of that desired outcome. Too many parents these days are afraid to be the "jerk" because they think their kids won't love them. The biggest thing I love about my dad, and thank him for, is the work ethic he instilled in me.

Me, too (see bold).

So I did the same, even with their friends: Guess what? It works.

The young women and men who have come through the farm that wanted to have fun on the Potomac, shoot at the pistol or skeet range, use the old SeaDo's, etc., all had/have to help before and after: And I have never, ever, heard a complaint. Quite the opposite.

I hire my son's friends now that are either working locally or at the local college. $10 scooters an hour, cash money, to mow and help. I have a nice rotation of five guys, all excellent and more than willing to ask if they are doing it right.

They also know I'll let them use my air conditioned barn shop to fix their cars or upgrade. I may want something in trade:cool:

At the barn, we use local kids who exchange work for riding lessons or the use of our horses and pony's for local shows, etc. I have a really nice ring I let them use for free to train. There is never a piece of litter or a thing out of place. They know what is expected and honor that.

I give a young local guy access to my farm to deer hunt in exchange for using his stands, organizing others who want to hunt and managing the deer environment: He plants the local grasses, puts out salt licks, etc.

The desire to be part of something, to help, is engrained in human nature: We seemed to have moved away from that. I won't.

My niece is a good kid and has a good work ethic. What she does not have are any mechanical curiosity or skills , and yet she is being pushed to be a Engineer because she is good at math.

I shake my head as we create another CAD jockey with little functional understanding.

I've been doing labor types jobs most of my life and bought my first Porsche before I had a drivers license. Not having much money meant I needed to fix it all myself, working in labor jobs meant I had access to lots of people who could teach me or explain the process.

I deal with many trades these days and one thing I've noticed is that the younger guys don't get to learn the very best way, which is to screw something up and then have to figure out what went wrong and then correct it, nope, now they call the seasoned guy on the cell phone to "hold their hand" which causes another problem in that the guy who is really sharp and fast spend more time talking to guys on the phone so they don't mess up- faster in the short time, but long term the young guys don't build up problem solving abilities. It becomes more like paint by numbers.

There are men like that, don't like to get their hands wet. I had to help a new neighbor a couple of doors down from my parents on a Sunday afternon. Their pipes burst in the yard. It started to rain so the owner, this middle age woman brought an umbrella as I try to patch up her water line near the front of the house. She was in mud with a shovel, so was I trying to perform this repair in our lovely socal rain. I later found out(she told me he was watching tv) that her husband was in the house watching TV. :eek: I didn't say anything but left after I was done. He did come out to thank me with a remote in hand.

This thread isn't about doing labor work, trades, using tools, or the willingness to turn a wrench. I agree with you guys that there are screw ups in all generations, (that number is A LOT more then we like to believe) but Vinman is seeing as lot of the same thing I or many of us have noticed at the same time. This age group's inability or should I say unwillingness to problem solve without without having to be told what to do at that very moment or with specific instruction. I sometimes wonder if they a re afraid of making a mistake and suffer the consequences. We are not talking about life and death decisions here.

Dad was more ethereal(greek) than practical(roman).

As a child, when my first bike's frame broke, the bike shop charged him $25 (in 1980's money) to weld together.
They welded it crooked and the tire rubbed.
I was about seven but had to point it out to the guy behind the counter.

Next we had to take my brand new $100 Huffy in a box to the same bike shop to get assembled.
Dad didn't know how and was probably thinking about more important things.
It cost $50 (in 1980's money).
The adjustments were off and I ended up learning how to tweak them.

After two expensive and incorrect fixes, I began to see the picture.

John, you got me thonking about bicycles. I rode a bike just like many other kids did except I was a little hung-up on them then most. WHen thing didn't work, I took it apart, learn how they work and fixed them or make it better. There was no instructions, internet, or not many people to ask for info. Now, there are so many young men riding their bikes, but many have shops work on them due to lack of abilities, or ownership of a few simple tools. They have the net, bike shop get togethers that teach them how to. its great, but it takes the learning aspect out of it. There's always someone or utube there to save their ass, so they almost never have to think or react to the issue at hand.

Seems the value of a dad is a recurrent theme here.

My dad had the knarliest, scarred-up, thick-jointed hands I have ever seen. He could fix anything from a wristwatch to a masonry arch.

He was a bricklayer, machinist, farmer and mechanic. Mom never let him touch a paintbrush, though and with good reason.

I think my son will be fine.

My daughter came to us last night with a list of jobs that she could do to make her own money. She's 8.

As much as we admire her willingness to work we had to explain that we would prefer she doesn't go around the neighborhood and ask for work.

One job she had down was to clean cars..........so they are all "clean like ours".

I guess my penchant for not letting our vehicles get nasty has rubbed off on her.

I have a detail job on a full size truck today and I am going to let her help me after school and I will share the pay with her.

I agree with Crowbob, the Dad theme seems to be present in most of the stories posted here.

No doubt a dad in the picture helps a lot.

Yep, your kid is not going to be the clueless checkbook mechanic.

Yeah, but one doesn't learn and hone problem solving if you don't have exposure to new things. How do you expect your neighbor to fix a leaking water line if he doesn't know the difference between a pipe wrench and a torque wrench?

None of us grew up with a developed problem solving ability and a go-get-um attitude; part is innate, but some has to be learned.

Kids being provided for and not challenged nor asked to contribute and solve problems is not good. We are creating a group of one dimensional humans.

Some folks are not well rounded. It's their fault, but it's also the fault of parents and society.

I find this to be very true. It scares me and makes me sad. Growing up I can't remember sitting down with my dad doing projects but I have always had the mentality of "if a human put it together, I can make it work" It is only later in life have I sat down and worked on projects with my dad and initially I was surprised at how much he knew how to do. Now I have come to see he looks at things the same way.

Yep...take away their "lifeline" (i.e. Internet/Smartphones) and many, if not most become Idiots'RUs....certainly not a good trend imo.

Now...GET OFF MY LAWN :D!!!

Thank you.

This was the whole point of my original post. SmileWavy