well this thread sucks, and just JINXED me!!

i just spent the last four hours being totally schooled by a retired bridge engineer with a pocket protector stuffed full of pencils and rulers.

he finished me off by showing me some of the most epic excel spreadsheets EVER!!

us young guys dont know SQUAT!! i must now deconstruct some of the spreadsheets to see how they even effen work.
bonus!!!! he downloaded a version for the HP48GX calculator. i am now ready for any dumb question the contractor asks me about top of deck grades..hahhaha..

At least you were smart enough to listen to the old grey. :cool: :D

There has been a profound cultural change in my opinion. I believe that's something that can't be avoided over time with the changes. Growing up in the '50s was quite different than now. At that time, most kids were encouraged/expected to go out & get a part time job. Some families couldn't afford to give kids money, while some just believed it was the kid's responsibility to go out & get it. That doesn't even occur to anyone anymore. Plus there just aren't the opportunities for that now days with so much litigation and liability being thrown around. Employers have to be nervous about being sued over ridiculous things by people looking for that opportunity. Like some of you, I worked from around ten years old doing yards, cleaning local stores, moving irrigation pipe in fields and had a steady part time job working in a gas station before 15. By sixteen I worked four nights a week loading diesel trailers with milk at a dairy while going to school and participating in sports. Things do turn out OK for lots of kids though. I have two nephews. I used to kid them that they were just button pushers, and felt justified in doing that. Now the older one is finishing up an electrical engineering degree while working at Qualcom, and the other is fixing electronics on F22's. I have to admit it's not bad for a couple of button pushers.

Our 4 year old (5 on the 20th) decided he wanted to get a R/C bomber to share with me. He wanted to know how much it cost and how he could save for it. We wold him he had to save $100 and we would pay the rest. He does chores around the house and has save up $12 the last couple months. On vacation I was trying to get him to swim under water and offered to buy one for him outright if he would go under water and he said no, he was going to buy it.

Both of our kids were able to use basic tools and cordless drill/screwdriver at a young age. Jacob has worn out our small Channel Lock cordless "fixing" things. Emily helped me rebuild a carb at 5 and asked questions on how all of it worked. She doesn't remember now, but she was there to help. Both like working with their hands.

He will see a goal and work backwards to see how to achieve it. Our daughter is the opposite.

I look around at my kids' friends (and their parents), and can only shake my head in disappointment. My step-sons were well along on that path, too. I'm doing my absolute best to raise kids NOT like that. My step-son is 16 and has a job. He knows once he's 18, he's "on his own," whether that means moving out or paying me rent (unless he's actively in college). I forced him to get that job; like practically holding his hand through the damn process. He and his younger brother help me with everything I do on my cars, whether they want to or not. Younger step-son enjoys it; older one hates it, but at least I know some of it is sinking in, and will help him later in life.

My own kids, I've been pushing the hell out of them since day 1. I'm strict, but not an *******. My kids know I love them, and I take the time to explain WHY I push them to be their best. They know I don't expect perfection, but I do expect the best they can do. If they ask me a question about school work, or figuring out a project, I don't give them an answer; I make them talk to me about how they have tried to figure it out, and then I guide them into maybe another way of thinking through the problem. They can usually come up with the solution themselves after that.

I believe that my role as a parent is to ensure my kids can be successful in life, no matter what they choose to do. Holding their hands and doing everything for them will only accomplish the exact opposite of that desired outcome. Too many parents these days are afraid to be the "jerk" because they think their kids won't love them. The biggest thing I love about my dad, and thank him for, is the work ethic he instilled in me.

Me, too (see bold).

So I did the same, even with their friends: Guess what? It works.

The young women and men who have come through the farm that wanted to have fun on the Potomac, shoot at the pistol or skeet range, use the old SeaDo's, etc., all had/have to help before and after: And I have never, ever, heard a complaint. Quite the opposite.

I hire my son's friends now that are either working locally or at the local college. $10 scooters an hour, cash money, to mow and help. I have a nice rotation of five guys, all excellent and more than willing to ask if they are doing it right.

They also know I'll let them use my air conditioned barn shop to fix their cars or upgrade. I may want something in trade:cool:

At the barn, we use local kids who exchange work for riding lessons or the use of our horses and pony's for local shows, etc. I have a really nice ring I let them use for free to train. There is never a piece of litter or a thing out of place. They know what is expected and honor that.

I give a young local guy access to my farm to deer hunt in exchange for using his stands, organizing others who want to hunt and managing the deer environment: He plants the local grasses, puts out salt licks, etc.

The desire to be part of something, to help, is engrained in human nature: We seemed to have moved away from that. I won't.

My niece is a good kid and has a good work ethic. What she does not have are any mechanical curiosity or skills , and yet she is being pushed to be a Engineer because she is good at math.

I shake my head as we create another CAD jockey with little functional understanding.

I've been doing labor types jobs most of my life and bought my first Porsche before I had a drivers license. Not having much money meant I needed to fix it all myself, working in labor jobs meant I had access to lots of people who could teach me or explain the process.

I deal with many trades these days and one thing I've noticed is that the younger guys don't get to learn the very best way, which is to screw something up and then have to figure out what went wrong and then correct it, nope, now they call the seasoned guy on the cell phone to "hold their hand" which causes another problem in that the guy who is really sharp and fast spend more time talking to guys on the phone so they don't mess up- faster in the short time, but long term the young guys don't build up problem solving abilities. It becomes more like paint by numbers.

There are men like that, don't like to get their hands wet. I had to help a new neighbor a couple of doors down from my parents on a Sunday afternon. Their pipes burst in the yard. It started to rain so the owner, this middle age woman brought an umbrella as I try to patch up her water line near the front of the house. She was in mud with a shovel, so was I trying to perform this repair in our lovely socal rain. I later found out(she told me he was watching tv) that her husband was in the house watching TV. :eek: I didn't say anything but left after I was done. He did come out to thank me with a remote in hand.

This thread isn't about doing labor work, trades, using tools, or the willingness to turn a wrench. I agree with you guys that there are screw ups in all generations, (that number is A LOT more then we like to believe) but Vinman is seeing as lot of the same thing I or many of us have noticed at the same time. This age group's inability or should I say unwillingness to problem solve without without having to be told what to do at that very moment or with specific instruction. I sometimes wonder if they a re afraid of making a mistake and suffer the consequences. We are not talking about life and death decisions here.

Dad was more ethereal(greek) than practical(roman).

As a child, when my first bike's frame broke, the bike shop charged him $25 (in 1980's money) to weld together.
They welded it crooked and the tire rubbed.
I was about seven but had to point it out to the guy behind the counter.

Next we had to take my brand new $100 Huffy in a box to the same bike shop to get assembled.
Dad didn't know how and was probably thinking about more important things.
It cost $50 (in 1980's money).
The adjustments were off and I ended up learning how to tweak them.

After two expensive and incorrect fixes, I began to see the picture.

John, you got me thonking about bicycles. I rode a bike just like many other kids did except I was a little hung-up on them then most. WHen thing didn't work, I took it apart, learn how they work and fixed them or make it better. There was no instructions, internet, or not many people to ask for info. Now, there are so many young men riding their bikes, but many have shops work on them due to lack of abilities, or ownership of a few simple tools. They have the net, bike shop get togethers that teach them how to. its great, but it takes the learning aspect out of it. There's always someone or utube there to save their ass, so they almost never have to think or react to the issue at hand.

Seems the value of a dad is a recurrent theme here.

My dad had the knarliest, scarred-up, thick-jointed hands I have ever seen. He could fix anything from a wristwatch to a masonry arch.

He was a bricklayer, machinist, farmer and mechanic. Mom never let him touch a paintbrush, though and with good reason.

I think my son will be fine.

My daughter came to us last night with a list of jobs that she could do to make her own money. She's 8.

As much as we admire her willingness to work we had to explain that we would prefer she doesn't go around the neighborhood and ask for work.

One job she had down was to clean cars..........so they are all "clean like ours".

I guess my penchant for not letting our vehicles get nasty has rubbed off on her.

I have a detail job on a full size truck today and I am going to let her help me after school and I will share the pay with her.

I agree with Crowbob, the Dad theme seems to be present in most of the stories posted here.

No doubt a dad in the picture helps a lot.

Yep, your kid is not going to be the clueless checkbook mechanic.

Yeah, but one doesn't learn and hone problem solving if you don't have exposure to new things. How do you expect your neighbor to fix a leaking water line if he doesn't know the difference between a pipe wrench and a torque wrench?

None of us grew up with a developed problem solving ability and a go-get-um attitude; part is innate, but some has to be learned.

Kids being provided for and not challenged nor asked to contribute and solve problems is not good. We are creating a group of one dimensional humans.

Some folks are not well rounded. It's their fault, but it's also the fault of parents and society.

I find this to be very true. It scares me and makes me sad. Growing up I can't remember sitting down with my dad doing projects but I have always had the mentality of "if a human put it together, I can make it work" It is only later in life have I sat down and worked on projects with my dad and initially I was surprised at how much he knew how to do. Now I have come to see he looks at things the same way.

Yep...take away their "lifeline" (i.e. Internet/Smartphones) and many, if not most become Idiots'RUs....certainly not a good trend imo.

Now...GET OFF MY LAWN :D!!!

Thank you.

This was the whole point of my original post. SmileWavy