The skills of our younger generation. Or should I say...

[JD159]

So my john Wayne shirt pretty much sums up the sentiments of this entire thread...

[JD159]

Originally Posted by look 171

This thread isn't about doing labor work, trades, using tools, or the willingness to turn a wrench. I agree with you guys that there are screw ups in all generations, (that number is A LOT more then we like to believe) but Vinman is seeing as lot of the same thing I or many of us have noticed at the same time. This age group's inability or should I say unwillingness to problem solve without without having to be told what to do at that very moment or with specific instruction. I sometimes wonder if they a re afraid of making a mistake and suffer the consequences. We are not talking about life and death decisions here.

If this is the case, what are the causes? Could it be a lack of problem solving oriented activities throughout education? You can't expect someone who has never had/learnt how to problem solve, to problem solve, unfortunately...

Where should we point the finger?

[oldE]

Perfect example:
A few years ago my co-worker was a university-aged fellow. We had been expecting some "peel & stick" banners for our outside signs to advise visitors we were open for the summer. I had been advised the signs had arrived on a day he was working and was surprised not to see them in place on the following day.
My curiosity was further aroused by the peel-off backing in the garbage can and, upon further checking, one of the self-sticking "Interpretive Centre Open" signs, crumpled in the recepticle beneath.
The problem? The signs had been printed as part of a larger surface (2'x3'). Rather than cut the signs out of the larger sheet, he had taken the whole sheet out, peeled off the backing and had attempted to affix the whole thing to the sign board (in a stiff wind, I might add). The result was predictable and it must have been frustrating for him to be defeated by some stick-on vinyl.
If indeed he had managed to affix the entire sheet on the sign board, it would have covered about 1/6 of the sign and obscured a good deal of the message.
Just no thought given to the process and no reasoning ability.

Be careful out there.
Les

[JD159]

Originally Posted by oldE

Perfect example:
A few years ago my co-worker was a university-aged fellow. We had been expecting some "peel & stick" banners for our outside signs to advise visitors we were open for the summer. I had been advised the signs had arrived on a day he was working and was surprised not to see them in place on the following day.
My curiosity was further aroused by the peel-off backing in the garbage can and, upon further checking, one of the self-sticking "Interpretive Centre Open" signs, crumpled in the recepticle beneath.
The problem? The signs had been printed as part of a larger surface (2'x3'). Rather than cut the signs out of the larger sheet, he had taken the whole sheet out, peeled off the backing and had attempted to affix the whole thing to the sign board (in a stiff wind, I might add). The result was predictable and it must have been frustrating for him to be defeated by some stick-on vinyl.
If indeed he had managed to affix the entire sheet on the sign board, it would have covered about 1/6 of the sign and obscured a good deal of the message.
Just no thought given to the process and no reasoning ability.

Be careful out there.
Les

Perfect example of what? Some kid in University had a tough time with a peel n' stick and the "generation" has the inability to problem solve and use common sense? Seriously?

Go back to EVERY generation, hand them a peel n' stick printed incorrectly like your example, and you will see that some use common sense, some do not...

[look 171]

Originally Posted by oldE

Perfect example:
A few years ago my co-worker was a university-aged fellow. We had been expecting some "peel & stick" banners for our outside signs to advise visitors we were open for the summer. I had been advised the signs had arrived on a day he was working and was surprised not to see them in place on the following day.
My curiosity was further aroused by the peel-off backing in the garbage can and, upon further checking, one of the self-sticking "Interpretive Centre Open" signs, crumpled in the recepticle beneath.
The problem? The signs had been printed as part of a larger surface (2'x3'). Rather than cut the signs out of the larger sheet, he had taken the whole sheet out, peeled off the backing and had attempted to affix the whole thing to the sign board (in a stiff wind, I might add). The result was predictable and it must have been frustrating for him to be defeated by some stick-on vinyl.
If indeed he had managed to affix the entire sheet on the sign board, it would have covered about 1/6 of the sign and obscured a good deal of the message.
Just no thought given to the process and no reasoning ability.

Be careful out there.
Les

Les, I think that was a case of "I don't give a siht" mentality. should they have given the correct vinyl, it would have been affixed correctly. "Not my fault".

[look 171]

Solving problems take effort. Its human nature to take the path of least or resistance so if info can be accessed through pushing a couple of button, or by speaking to a thin device why go through the trouble of have to think about it. Why not just enjoy the music through those goddamnheadphones and wait?

[JD159]

Originally Posted by look 171

Solving problems take effort. Its human nature to take the path of least or resistance so if info can be accessed through pushing a couple of button, or by speaking to a thin device why go through the trouble of have to think about it. Why not just enjoy the music through those goddamnheadphones and wait?

For the same reason that we refer to shop manuals, user manuals, instruction manuals. I could never have looked at my 944 and solved it's problems by thinking about it. I refer to the manual. This manual just so happens to be at the push of buttons.

If you do not have the knowledge or skills, thinking will only go so far. You need information. Information which, thanks to the generation before me, is now at the fingertips and voice commands of my generation. I just hate it when the generation that created, marketed, and sold the stuff, complains about it's prevalence and use...

[look 171]

Originally Posted by JD159

If this is the case, what are the causes? Could it be a lack of problem solving oriented activities throughout education? You can't expect someone who has never had/learnt how to problem solve, to problem solve, unfortunately...

Where should we point the finger?

Not sure if this is a joke or not?

Problem solving is what we humans do. Cavemen did it. They found a way to kill the mammoth for food or catch fish. it was a necessity, not a luxury. So for our lazy folks, not just our young men, its much easier just to wait for the instructions rather then to think about it.

When my little boy was about 8-9 months old, he dropped a ball and rolled behind some furniture. my father noticed that he just did not fallow the path of the ball, instead he crawled around the coffee table and retrieved his little ball from the other side where it was easy to get to. No one taught him that, but he figured it out.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by JD159

For the same reason that we refer to shop manuals, user manuals, instruction manuals. I could never have looked at my 944 and solved it's problems by thinking about it. I refer to the manual. This manual just so happens to be at the push of buttons.

If you do not have the knowledge or skills, thinking will only go so far. You need information. Information which, thanks to the generation before me, is now at the fingertips and voice commands of my generation. I just hate it when the generation that created, marketed, and sold the stuff, complains about it's prevalence and use...

Of course we need manuals and instructions. This is not just about the old vs the young. I am caught in between now that I am creeping toward the other side. When i was young, I hated old people. They were always btiching about something. Now I know why.

What Vinman said was the lack of common sense and the unwillingness to think about the situation and make a move on to the next step.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by look 171

Not sure if this is a joke or not?

Problem solving is what we humans do. Cavemen did it. They found a way to kill the mammoth for food or catch fish. it was a necessity, not a luxury. So for our lazy folks, not just our young men, its much easier just to wait for the instructions rather then to think about it.

When my little boy was about 8-9 months old, he dropped a ball and rolled behind some furniture. my father noticed that he just did not fallow the path of the ball, instead he crawled around the coffee table and retrieved his little ball from the other side where it was easy to get to. No one taught him that, but he figured it out.

He figured it out because nobody solved the problem for him. If somebody solved it for him, he never would of figured it out. Now if someone usually solves his problems, he'll rarely figure anything out on his own. So when he is asked to hang up a peel and stick banner, and it requires some problem solving, it's going to end up in the garbage.

A lack of problem solving skills and an unwillingness to solve problems is not the fault of the generation in question. But that doesn't give the generation an excuse to live their lives unable and unwilling to think through a problem.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by look 171

Solving problems take effort. Its human nature to take the path of least or resistance so if info can be accessed through pushing a couple of button, or by speaking to a thin device why go through the trouble of have to think about it. Why not just enjoy the music through those goddamnheadphones and wait?

Originally Posted by JD159

For the same reason that we refer to shop manuals, user manuals, instruction manuals. I could never have looked at my 944 and solved it's problems by thinking about it. I refer to the manual. This manual just so happens to be at the push of buttons.

If you do not have the knowledge or skills, thinking will only go so far. You need information. Information which, thanks to the generation before me, is now at the fingertips and voice commands of my generation. I just hate it when the generation that created, marketed, and sold the stuff, complains about it's prevalence and use...

There is a big difference between looking up something in your 944 Hayes manual and asking Siri what the torque settings are on your lug bolts: you can trust your Hayes manual with about 90% certainty that it will have correct information, but the interwebs? Not so much.

Problem is - lot of information out there on the interwebs is missing something very important that your manual has: authentication. Info is put there by the same type of folks who don't want to figure things out themselves. So instead of finding an accurate answer, you often get a 'good enough' answer. In your Hayes manual, it probably states your lug bolts should be tighted to 96 ft lbs, while the internet answer is likely "As tight as you can get them with a lug wrench."

-Z

PS: I just asked Siri about the torque specs on a 944 Porsche, and the first result on the web search was a thread from the Pelican Parts 944 Forum! So much for trying to prove a point!!!

[JD159]

Z-man,

If they made a haynes manual for the 944 S that's all I would refer too!

[livi]

I beg to differ - and go with the Words of Charlie Harper: "A 23 years old is like a good Carpenter. No Wood gets wasted".

[Tervuren]

I see the inability to problem solve nearly every time I drive in traffic - light up ahead is red, lines of stopped cars in all lanes, I back off early since there is no point in piling in at 45MPH and slamming on the brakes. I get honked at by SUV's that should be able to easily see over my '44. They are unaware, looking 3 feet in front of them and cannot understand why I slow to 35, 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, and roll at 2nd gear or first gear a little off idle it so I never come to a full stop. I've been passed over double yellows honked at, passed using a turn lane, etc. Critical thinking while driving rarely happens. Once every 2-3 months a driver stands out to me as awesome and aware.

The last time this happened was a fire truck approaching from the rear, the light is red, and there is no cross traffic, the pick up truck and I are both in the right lane, and we both dive off taking the turn to the right(running the red light), kick into the new roads left turn lane, both pull a U, and make a right turn, we both were paying attention, and we cleared a lane for the fire truck to blaze through. (My slowing down early for the red light had led to the other vehicles all making an aggressive swap to the left lane)

[VINMAN]

JD, I know it's not the fault of the generation in question. It's just something I observe. In fact, I blame my generation for creating the problem. We don't teach our kids life skills anymore. Parents only want their kids to be "high achievers" and stars. They couldn't care less if they have the capacity to function in the real world.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by JD159

For the same reason that we refer to shop manuals, user manuals, instruction manuals. I could never have looked at my 944 and solved it's problems by thinking about it. I refer to the manual. This manual just so happens to be at the push of buttons.

If you do not have the knowledge or skills, thinking will only go so far. You need information. Information which, thanks to the generation before me, is now at the fingertips and voice commands of my generation. I just hate it when the generation that created, marketed, and sold the stuff, complains about it's prevalence and use...

IMO it's the "acquiring" of the pertinent info that has changed with the advancement of the information age. Performing a "search" and the answer appearing before one's eyes takes a lot of the "journey" out of the process, and imo, that "journey" is what has filled us "old farts" with lots of info along the way...notice I didn't say "useful" info . For good old information assimilation, I still prefer manuals and books over a screen, but certainly, both have their benefits. Not directing this towards you (most on this board are a different breed), but how many youngins pick up a book, manual, or even use their "devices" and learn just for the sake of learning? Just my .02...YMMV.

[gordner]

Originally Posted by JD159

Perfect example of what? Some kid in University had a tough time with a peel n' stick and the "generation" has the inability to problem solve and use common sense? Seriously?

Go back to EVERY generation, hand them a peel n' stick printed incorrectly like your example, and you will see that some use common sense, some do not...

That vinyl was cut correctly, it is always cut that way to minimize the wasted vinyl. Cut it to the actual sign dimensions and all the vinyl covering the white spaces is wasted.

And when looking at it before install, this fact should be painfully obvious.

[vash]

Siri!!

what? looking thru a manual and asking Siri has a lot more in common than you think. it's just the tool for research for the time.

i dont think i am better than the kids behind me because i did my research paper flipping thru card catalogs and encyclopedias.. just because they dont know the Dewey decimal system doesnt make them the inferior researcher or paper writer.

i think times are changing and the tools available change with them accordingly. what we do with the knowledge is what separates us from the young punks.

kids now cant remember a phone number..hahha..because they dont have to. i get it.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by vash

Siri!!

what? looking thru a manual and asking Siri has a lot more in common than you think. it's just the tool for research for the time.

i dont think i am better than the kids behind me because i did my research paper flipping thru card catalogs and encyclopedias.. just because they dont know the Dewey decimal system doesnt make them the inferior researcher or paper writer.

i think times are changing and the tools available change with them accordingly. what we do with the knowledge is what separates us from the young punks.

kids now cant remember a phone number..hahha..because they dont have to. i get it.

Vash:

The car manual and your dewey deccimal system/library has one huge difference compared to Siri/the interwebs: the noise to information ration is reversed. As the internet continues to grow, there will be more and more noise out there -- and the danger is the notion: "Well, I read it on the internet, therefore it must be true."

Now, if you will excuse me, I have some sode can tabs to collect so I can give it to little Johnny so he gets another day of dialysis...

-Z-man.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by vash

....kids now cant remember a phone number..hahha..because they dont have to. i get it.

"MOST" of us have a pretty powerful computer situated right between our ears. It just takes training and "practice" to use it properly and to our advantage...YMMV. I'm afraid many "kids" don't exercise their brain power like us old farts just like they don't get out and "play ball" like we did at their age. Doesn't have to be an either/or when it comes to technology (...I retired from being a computer systems/networking geek). Vash, you'd be just fine without a "device" in your hand....I'm not so sure about some folks

ps: Want to absolutely cripple the good ol' US of A these days imo...disrupt the Internet