Have we discussed the "loud music" shooting trial in FL yet?

[Rick Lee]

I don't know why this one is remotely comparable to the Trayvon/Zimmerman case, but some folks want to link them.

Zimmerman, Dunn trials compared and contrasted

Seems to me, Dunn had zero justification for even reaching for his gun. That he drove off after firing 10 shots because he thought no one had been hit shows he belongs in jail for a looonnnnggg time.

However, I have to wonder why this same prosecutor is, as with Zimmerman, overcharging him. Murder one for a shooting over a gas station argument between total strangers? Dunn really needs to go to jail and he could walk because this is not even close to murder one. WTF?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Sounds like he needs to spend a good long while in jail. But every crime involving a white person and black person is not racially motivated. I didn't see a single mention of race as a motivating factor, I guess because every white person is inherently racist and it's just assumed?

[targa911S]

I'm thinking stand yer ground won't save him. No weapon found on the kids, and he left the scene. I think he will go away for a long time.

[Arthropraxis]

He can't and his lawyers won't try to use SYG because he instigated the incident. I am surprised his wife hasn't been charged as an accessory. He told her he fired into the car before they drove home, from what I have read. They came from a wedding prior to the shooting, were blood alcohol levels taken when they were arrested?

[John Rogers]

As my neighbor the police sergeant told me....if at all possible let the other guy(s) make the first move although they only need to come at you and be threatening towards you. Unfortunately in most cases he noted that they will be fast and might get to you before you can get the gun out. If they are in a car, unless they try to run you over (several police shootings in S.D. with that) or come out of the car at you, then you probably have justification to take lethal action. From the other post about this and also the news sound bits the man said he thought they had a gun and they might have but then he left and they had plenty of time to get rid of it.

As for loud music, when I had my Mini Cooper S with the 400 watt sound system and a car with loud rap music came up at a light, I would hot key to my Weird Al Polka music cranked full volume and they always turned theirs down!

[Racerbvd]

This is local, the dead kid threatened Dunn, the driver was a convicted felon who was breaking his probation (most likely the reason they left to get rid of the gun.
Dunn asked politely, and one of the kids turned it down, then davis got out, cranked it back up, started calling Dunn names & threatened to kill him, pointed what he thought was a gun, that is when Dunn grabbed his weapon & opened fire. The wedding was at one of the clubs & belong too, and right down the street from me.

18-year old Arrested for Stealing from 6 Cars | Crime | Avenues Deer Creek News

Last few years, Black youths in Jax were pretty much out of control, one of the reason's Jacksonville was being called the Murder Capital of FL.














My Mother handled the mortgage on this place when it 1st opened.





Course, bet you haven't heard about this shooting..

Police charge 17-year-old with killing Jacksonville neighbor, classmate
Posted: February 10, 2014 - 1:38pm | Updated: February 11, 2014 - 12:39am

2014 Homicides Coverage
Police charge 17-year-old with killing Jacksonville neighbor, classmate
Jacksonville man charged with murder after 20-year-old's body found in Georgia
Arrests made in 5 weekend Jacksonville slayings
Botched murder-suicide ends with arrest of 45-year-old Jacksonville man
Carnage marks first week of 2014 with 6 Jacksonville homicides
Headlines by FeedBurner
2014 Jacksonville Homicides Count
7 as of 1/14 (excludes beaches and areas outside Jacksonville)
2013 Jacksonville Homicides
Story summaries, maps and photos of 2013 Jacksonville homicides
Map of where the 2013 Jacksonville homicides occured
2013 wraps up with 94 murders among 115 homicides in Jacksonville
By Jim Schoettler
Jacksonville police arrested a 17-year-old Monday in the slaying of an 18-year-old neighbor and schoolmate found repeatedly shot in the head in a ditch Feb. 1 near a North Jacksonville elementary school.

The victim, Adrian Watkins Jr., was the son of a police officer who works at Blount Island Marine Terminal for the Department of Defense. Police arrested Gregory Devalle Robinson, 17, after finding a gun at his Leonid Road home while serving a search warrant. An arrest report indicated the gun is linked to the slaying....



Read more at Jacksonville.com: Police charge 17-year-old with killing Jacksonville neighbor, classmate | members.jacksonville.com

A few years ago, the Black on Black killing was so bad that this cartoon was drawn up and in the paper.



The violence has been spreading to other areas & targeting Whites the last few years But not just boys doing it.

[yazhound]

ear plugs are cheap

[Jim Richards]

Prediction: In forty or fifty pages from now, this thread will be indistinguishable from the self-defense-against-soft-bag-of-popcorn-thrown-by-texting-dude-in-the-movie-theater thread. The same people will come down on the same sides.

unsubscribed

[Rick Lee]

Let's say a kid really did point a shotgun at Dunn. The fact that Dunn was free to go back to his car to retrieve his gun sounds to me like he was not in imminent danger to life or limb. He did not have to re-engage. My personal standard for use of deadly force is not "is it legal?" but rather "Am I going to die if I don't shoot this guy?" And leaving the scene after gunplay is completely inexcuseable.

[hardflex]

When will someone use the defense of ' I wasn't in immediate danger from the immediate situation but I was in fear because of there are/have been a lot of killings in the neighborhood/area/city.

Fear is fear right?

[ossiblue]

In cases like this, it is always beneficial to stick to facts and evidence that have been presented in court and avoid speculation based on assumptions and hearsay that have no bearing on guilt or innocence.

In Dunn's case, there is absolutely no evidence or sworn testimony that a weapon was in the car, outside of his claims. There is no forensic evidence or testimony that Davis exited the car, except for Dunn's claim--in fact, the medical examiner testified that Davis was likely in a sitting position when shot and the bullet appeared to have hit a solid object, like a car door, before entering the body. Because there is no evidence or testimony that supports a self-defense claim, it was necessary for Dunn, himself, to testify.

Under cross examination, Dunn's ex-fiancee testified that he never told her he saw a gun or weapon--not when she got into the car, not on the drive back to the hotel, not when she heard the next morning that a person was killed, not on the drive back to her home the next day. This completely undercuts his sworn testimony that he told her he saw a weapon, "numerous times."

Dunn's claim that he contacted a neighbor the next day, who is connected to law enforcement, to arrange a surrender is undercut by phone records which show the neighbor initiated the phone call, not Dunn.

The public is free to assume what they want--that a weapon was tossed out, that the police were incompetent in not doing a thorough search, that Davis (the dead youth) exited the car and approached Dunn with a weapon, but the jury can only rely on the sworn testimony and evidence most of which does not support Dunn's claims.

Both the defense and prosecution spin out a scenario for the jury to consider but those scenarios need to be supported by evidence and sworn testimony. The defense's claims are reasonable and truly show self-defense. Unfortunately for the defense, the most important parts of the claim rely on the credibility of the defendant himself, not outside physical evidence or third party testimony. To believe there was a weapon, the jury must assume it was dispose of. They must assume the police were incompentent. They must assume the three others in the SUV lied under oath. Those assumptions will be based on nothing more than Dunn's credibility as there is no other evidence to support them. They may assume such things and Dunn may be acquitted. We'll have to wait and see.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Let's say a kid really did point a shotgun at Dunn. The fact that Dunn was free to go back to his car to retrieve his gun sounds to me like he was not in imminent danger to life or limb. He did not have to re-engage. My personal standard for use of deadly force is not "is it legal?" but rather "Am I going to die if I don't shoot this guy?" And leaving the scene after gunplay is completely inexcuseable.

Your scenario does not fit the case. Dunn was in his car, next to the car with the kid. Dunn never left his car as the SUV was next to him, on his left side. All the escalation happened inside the cars until, according to Dunn, the kid exited the SUV and had a weapon.

[Rick Lee]

When will someone use the defense of ' I wasn't in immediate danger from the immediate situation but I was in fear because of there are/have been a lot of killings in the neighborhood/area/city.



Fear is fear right?

Maybe when they pass a law with language stating that mere fear is justification for use of deadly force.

As it is, most state laws on this matter have language to the effect, "a reasonable person would fear imminent death or grave bodily harm." So that's the threshold, not just being in fear that no other reasonable person would likely agree with. Dunn is cooked.

[Rick Lee]

Quote de Rick Lee

Let's say a kid really did point a shotgun at Dunn. The fact that Dunn was free to go back to his car to retrieve his gun sounds to me like he was not in imminent danger to life or limb. He did not have to re-engage. My personal standard for use of deadly force is not "is it legal?" but rather "Am I going to die if I don't shoot this guy?" And leaving the scene after gunplay is completely inexcuseable.

Your scenario does not fit the case. Dunn was in his car, next to the car with the kid. Dunn never left his car as the SUV was next to him, on his left side. All the escalation happened inside the cars until, according to Dunn, the kid exited the SUV and had a weapon.

Ok, I had read another version elsewhere. Still, Dunn could have driven away. I'd pull away with a pump still stuck in my car before I felt I had no other choice than to wildly fire 10 rds into a vehicle with multiple occupants.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Am I the only one thinking that I'd just keep my damn mouth shut if a car load of teens pulled up next to me with their music blaring? No reason to poke the bear. Besides, it's not like loud music in a car is really hurting anyone. I don't recall the "right to never be annoyed" in our Constitution.

[Racerbvd]

Gotta love it how everyone thinks kids should be able to say & do what every they want?? When I was young, if I would have mouthed off to an adult, My father would have kicked my a$$, even if I was right, because it is about being respectful. The trayvon revenge attacks were happening, even though the media refused to report them on a broad scale (I posted some) and it was popular for Black youths to try & "bait" White males, like the Davis kid did (I have had it happen to me as well) and a lot of it is gang related.
In FL. we are tired of being victims, which is why we have the SYG law, we are tired of the car jackings & people being ganged up on. So when someone threatens to kill you, and acts aggressively, you can bet that if the person is armed, they will defend themselves. According to witnesses, Dunn asked polity, the kid on probation complied, then davis turned it back up and started running his mouth & making threats, and it went down hill from there.. Don't threaten to kill someone if you don't want them to take you seriously take action, like don't point a gun unless you plan on using it. The noise (it isn't music) is more than loud it vibrates your car & drowns out your music. And there is a law against it. http://www.nonoise.org/lawlib/cities/jacksonv.htm





Walking away doesn't always work either.. Who can forget this guy??

[onewhippedpuppy]

Byron, I'm not arguing that it sounds like they were being disrespectful punks. But had Dunn just kept his mouth shut we would have nothing to talk about. CCH carries a lot of responsibility, trying to deescalate a situation is one of them.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Byron, I'm not arguing that it sounds like they were being disrespectful punks. But had Dunn just kept his mouth shut we would have nothing to talk about. CCH carries a lot of responsibility, trying to deescalate a situation is one of them.

the 1st kid, the one on Probation, turned the stereo down, and it was reported that Dunn asked nicely. How many of us use to crank our Pioneer Super Tuner IIIs back when we were teens, and had adults ask us or tell us to turn it down, I would say that most of us here would have been respectful (I'm sure a few wouldn't) enough to comply without any lip and certainly not threatened anyone. Giving into to kids, letting them get away with everything isn't doing them or society any favors, my 19 year old nephew had the learn the hard way that he can't just do or act how ever he wants, I just hope that he has straightened up & has his act together. And for the record, I have been where Dunn is, when being baited, I just didn't take the bait, nor did I have someone else safety to worry about

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

the 1st kid, the one on Probation, turned the stereo down, and it was reported that Dunn asked nicely. How many of us use to crank our Pioneer Super Tuner IIIs back when we were teens, and had adults ask us or tell us to turn it down, I would say that most of us here would have been respectful (I'm sure a few wouldn't) enough to comply without any lip and certainly not threatened anyone. Giving into to kids, letting them get away with everything isn't doing them or society any favors, my 19 year old nephew had the learn the hard way that he can't just do or act how ever he wants, I just hope that he has straightened up & has his act together. And for the record, I have been where Dunn is, when being baited, I just didn't take the bait, nor did I have someone else safety to worry about

No arguments here. One big reason that my kids go to Catholic school is that they still teach manners and respect.

[ossiblue]

Jury has the case. It will surprise me if they can come to a unanimous decision on 2nd degree murder or manslaughter, given the SYG law. I'm seeing a hung jury on this one.