600 bullets, one dead hostage

[BlueSkyJaunte]

VIDEO: 33 Police Officers Fire 600 Bullets into Car Knowing It Contained a Hostage, Killing Her

A female hostage kidnapped during a Northern California bank robbery was killed by police in an ensuing chase and shootout, likely during a final gun battle where the lone surviving suspect used her as a human shield, authorities said Monday.

The results of a preliminary ballistics report show that police in the city of Stockton fired the 10 bullets that struck Misty Holt-Singh, 41, and all her wounds likely came during a final burst of gunfire, Stockton Police Chief Eric Jones said at a news conference.

I wonder if any of those 600 rounds hit any dogs?

[island911]

Dayum...

33 cops firing 600 rounds into a hostage car that was being followed by a police helicopter.

20 rounds per cop? (except the 3) --sheesh!

[JavaBrewer]

Trained professionals all of them.

[Jeff Higgins]

We need a drastic change in our relationship with our police. There is simply not enough individual responsibility assigned to them, wherein we hold them personally liable for the decisions they make while on the job. We hold other license holding professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.) personally liable, so why do police get to hide behind their departments? It's time for that to come to an end. I think if we can ever succeed at holding police to the same level of professional responsibility and liability as the rest of us, we might just see a drastic change in their behavior.

[Joe Bob]

[pete3799]

Originally Posted by jeff higgins

we need a drastic change in our relationship with our police. There is simply not enough individual responsibility assigned to them, wherein we hold them personally liable for the decisions they make while on the job. We hold other license holding professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.) personally liable, so why do police get to hide behind their departments? It's time for that to come to an end. I think if we can ever succeed at holding police to the same level of professional responsibility and liability as the rest of us, we might just see a drastic change in their behavior.

+1

[VaSteve]

Cool. They can operate as CYA beaurocrats. Bad idea. Unless there's a white paper on this somewhere I could read up on it.


This story is egregious, but I don't think individual liability makes sense either.

[intakexhaust]

I don't think many can say much without being a witness but very apparent the police logic is all messed up.

First and foremost is the safety of bank employees, patrons and if leads to chaos out in the public (especially with a hostage), let the crooks run with the loot. Lawyer is spot on. Explained the eyes in the air, and the cops were fully aware of the hostage! Insane.

Good luck to the citizens in that town. Holy crap!

[osidak]

Match the 10 bullets to the individual guns that fired them and the person(s) that fired them should be charged with MURDER and the other schmucks should be charged with attempted murder.

There is NO reason to fire 600 rounds into a car with a known hostage end of story.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

...but I don't think individual liability makes sense either.

O.k., run with that. Why don't you think it makes sense? It seems to work with everyone else.

[island911]

it's because people are afraid that if they don't give cops the right to kill with relative immunity then no one will take the job.

[Jeff Higgins]

Maybe a different sort would be attracted to the job. That might not be such a bad thing, seeing as at the present they have the highest percentage of sociopaths of any profession (followed very closely by lawyers, of all things - maybe that's why they have so little use for one another). On top of that, they are the runaway leaders in domestic violence - no one even comes close. Not even lawyers.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

O.k., run with that. Why don't you think it makes sense? It seems to work with everyone else.

Who would take he job? Do firefighters have such liability? Ambulance drivers? ER docs?

I'm all for body cameras and such, it keeps everyone honest. But this idea has tons of rooms for abuse, buy the wrong people. Remember those people last week that were videotaping the cops and mouthing off and the cops broke the window? All those people that like to say "you work for me..."

It has so many bad implications with lawsuit $ on the other side.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by osidak

Match the 10 bullets to the individual guns that fired them and the person(s) that fired them should be charged with MURDER and the other schmucks should be charged with attempted murder.

There is NO reason to fire 600 rounds into a car with a known hostage end of story.

There is NO reason to fire even 6 rounds into a car with a known hostage, end of story.

[livi]

Tragic indeed and hard to understand.

But as mentioned, if it was a dog killed the twitter storm would have broken down the Internet.

[Heel n Toe]

Somebody might be making the coffee a little too strong down at the police station.

Possible upside... maybe the next bank robber in the area will think twice about taking a hostage.

I know... not funny... and the guy was probably tweaked out of his brain.

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

We hold other license holding professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.) personally liable, so why do police get to hide behind their departments? It's time for that to come to an end. I think if we can ever succeed at holding police to the same level of professional responsibility and liability as the rest of us, we might just see a drastic change in their behavior.

No disagreement but one major difference is the other professions you identify require significant degreed education and licensing and are accompanied by 6 figure salaries. As long as we're recruiting high-school dropouts with a Rambo complex and pay them the princely some of $28k/year, we'll get exactly what we have today.

[cstreit]

Here is where you guys have it wrong.

The job of the Police is to make arrests, gather evidence, and take notes. Keeping people safe only happens as a consequence of those things.

For example, you will be kept safe if they come to arrest the bad guy in your home. They do not seem to have an obligation to keep you safe if you get between them and their "job" like this hostage. The sooner you understand this, the more sense a lot of this stuff makes.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

No disagreement but one major difference is the other professions you identify require significant degreed education and licensing and are accompanied by 6 figure salaries. As long as we're recruiting high-school dropouts with a Rambo complex and pay them the princely some of $28k/year, we'll get exactly what we have today.

Not all cops work for cheap.

NYC, Nassau County, Suffolk County, starting pay is just north of $40k. Sergeants typically make 6 figures. They work 3 days on and 4 days off so many of them have side construction businesses or other contract work. Not only do they get OT they get triple time pay for working big holidays like Christmas, Thanksgiving.

Not sure if they've amended the contract but a budget problem was pension. At 20 years in service these guys got 100% of their last year salary as their pension. Which means they would not use any sick or vacation days. Unused days get paid out as cash so they increase the base. Then they would work every OT and triple time shift available. They could easily increase their base by 50% for the year.

You had guys in their mid 40's retiring with pensions in the $200k range who would then go start a second career.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by osidak

Match the 10 bullets to the individual guns that fired them and the person(s) that fired them should be charged with MURDER and the other schmucks should be charged with attempted murder.

There is NO reason to fire 600 rounds into a car with a known hostage end of story.

I think there could be reasons for sure if you took some time to thought about it, but maybe not bank robbers running away.