Anyone own an interior painting business?

[JonT]

Just brainstorming business ideas with my brother. We've both done lots of our own painting in our homes but I'm sure we could learn the pro's tricks. Is this a difficult business to get into? How long does it take to build a full calendar of work provided you hit the bricks? Is it still somewhat enjoyable after years of doing it? How's the $$? Any recommendations/comments? Thank you.

[Neilk]

Problem will be competing against low priced companies hiring illegals and cheap clients like myself. Unless you can afford a couple of years of lean times to build a good reputation, I would think it would be a really tough business to get into and make a comfortable living.

just my 2 cents.

[fintstone]

Seems to me that if you could get hooked up with a large property manager, you could make pretty good and reliable money. Mine seems to have no problem spending my money and my rentals seem to need painting quite often (inside and outside). They manage a couple hundred homes, so one always needs painting. The price does not seem as competitive as when I hire folks myself, so the painters are probably making a bit more than on other jobs.

[rwest]

Like Neil pointed out, lots of competition. The "cost" of entry is very low, pretty much anybody can get a few brushes and rollers and say that they're painters. So in order to make a living, you'll need to be able to justify being paid good money for your work when there are so many super cheap companies out there.

[gr8fl4porsche]

I run a commercial painting business. Been doing it for decades.

When you are small it is tough because you only have yourself and maybe a partner/ helper to do the work. How do you handle 2 or 3 jobs at the same time?

Most clients do not want to wait for your schedule. You are supposed to work on 'their' schedule. If you can find people who will wait, then all is good. But that is not typical.

Your typical client says, 'I just bought a house, we want it painted and have to be moved in by next week'. How do you handle this when you already have a project ongoing and one waiting? These are the clients that pay the bills. Pricing, while important, is not necessarily the only factor involved. Your competition may be cheaper, but the job goes to the company that can actually get the job done.

So, come up with a plan to take every job that you can get - not just the ones that fit into your schedule. You may have to work doubles, hire temporary help, etc.

This is a service business. Make everyone happy regardless of bottom line and your client list will grow.

I will share the secret to service business success -- Answer your phone or call back immediately. Get quotes back to clients quickly. By doing this, you will be miles ahead of your competition.

[Jess]

No offense to any really pro painters out there intended.

I've been in the trades my entire adult life and it's only gotten terribly harder to make a living. I (and probably most pros), I believe view painters as very near the bottom of the food chain. It's dominated by Hispanic immigrants who seem to work for pennies. It would be one of my last choices as a career path.

I'm a talented carpenter and find I'm bidding work against guys whom don't speak English (not a problem), don't carry proper insurance or licenses, and seem to come and go with revolving door velocity. The glory days of contracting seem to be behind me.

I'd not tell my worst enemy to get into it today.

[look 171]

Well, I have to get on my painter's schedule. three people, husband, wife, and an employeee (his younger brother). These guys are always busy, and yes they are immigrants from El Salvador but has been here for over 20 something years. I will have them paint a house all day long and come up against 95% of the painters out there and will beat them hands down. This includes patch work matching textures. When they retires, I am fooked. They are doing a $14000 exterior mid century in Pasadena right now. I choose them to do the painting when I did the Greene and greend some time ago. It took them a little over a month.

I know people talked about stability when it comes to the big commercial jobs, but do you want to just paint all day long. Nothing exciting, no texture matching, but mask it off, roll it on day in and day out. I would be burned easily. Location h=is a big one. Out here in paradise, painters work through out the year. Other parts of the country, they might have to shovel snow during the dark seasons. No fun if there's a family to support.

ARe you savvy with lacquer and woodwork refinishing? most general painters don't really how to deal with that stuff.

[Jess]

I've rethought my response. I was out of line. Carpentry has been great to me and I respect anyone who has made a living with their hands. I got in at a good time in the late eighties. It's just been tougher lately, as I find many folks are not willing to pay for the skills, expenses, costs, etc. that it costs me to run a responsible, honest business. Many people I encounter consider nothing but price…maybe they'll get lucky, maybe they'll get a great job, maybe the tradesman will come back to solve problems…or not. I rarely go in to fix other's mistakes anymore. Start with me, finish with me, refer me. That's what I expect and mostly get.

Craigslist has given too many guys with a pickup, a level in the gun rack, and a dog, a place to enter the marketplace. So many consumers are only interested in price. This ties into the "where have the repairmen gone" thread. I'm willing to pay for quality work (I loves me my mechanical watches) and I wish/hope others will do the same.

Sometimes it gets frustrating and I was having one of those days yesterday. Huge apologies to Randy.

Jess

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Jess

I've rethought my response. I was out of line. Carpentry has been great to me and I respect anyone who has made a living with their hands. I got in at a good time in the late eighties. It's just been tougher lately, as I find many folks are not willing to pay for the skills, expenses, costs, etc. that it costs me to run a responsible, honest business. Many people I encounter consider nothing but price…maybe they'll get lucky, maybe they'll get a great job, maybe the tradesman will come back to solve problems…or not. I rarely go in to fix other's mistakes anymore. Start with me, finish with me, refer me. That's what I expect and mostly get.

Craigslist has given too many guys with a pickup, a level in the gun rack, and a dog, a place to enter the marketplace. So many consumers are only interested in price. This ties into the "where have the repairmen gone" thread. I'm willing to pay for quality work (I loves me my mechanical watches) and I wish/hope others will do the same.

Sometimes it gets frustrating and I was having one of those days yesterday. Huge apologies to Randy.

Jess

I did not direct that you. Sorry if you felt that way, but I think the OP need to hear this. I understand how you feel. Most painters are hispanics and I would not talk to them through your cell phone if they were in from of me. The higher end trades poeople are funny and its all about trust and coming through with your name behind the products. There are lots of Korean and Middle Easterners in the painting business here. They come up to my job sometimes asking for work and beating my painting pricing by xxx amount. Without thinking about it, the answer is no thank you. I love it when people shop pricing instead of ability. We need those guys to keep the pecking order alive. They burn the home owners, when they call us (they would have already heard of us or know us by referral), so that's more of a guarantee gig for honest businessmen like us. My painter, and electrician, are super busy all the time. they didn't feel the down turn in the economy in the past 5-6 years.

[berettafan]

Seems to me that if you could get hooked up with a large property manager, you could make pretty good and reliable money. Mine seems to have no problem spending my money and my rentals seem to need painting quite often (inside and outside). They manage a couple hundred homes, so one always needs painting. The price does not seem as competitive as when I hire folks myself, so the painters are probably making a bit more than on other jobs.

The reverse should be true. Anyone managing a couple hundred homes should probably have their own painters on payroll.

Property managers here will demand a cut of any work they 'award' to subs. Last figure quoted to me by an Hvac guy soliciting a contract from a property manager was 10%. My guy (Hvac guy) was shocked to find out the mgt bsns is so sleazy.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by berettafan

The reverse should be true. Anyone managing a couple hundred homes should probably have their own painters on payroll.

Property managers here will demand a cut of any work they 'award' to subs. Last figure quoted to me by an Hvac guy soliciting a contract from a property manager was 10%. My guy (Hvac guy) was shocked to find out the mgt bsns is so sleazy.

Thanks for the heads up on this one. Am on a condo board and our building has 57 units. The management co. charges the owners a total of $2300Can. a month for running the building. We vote on contracts awarded to contractors and I can see how easy it is for contractors to give kickbacks to the management co. In terms of accounting then it is probably easy for the management co. to hide these kickbacks from the owners and possibly the govt. for tax purposes.

Cheers, Guy

[LWJ]

I agree with a lot of the thoughts above. I am not a painter but have done a lot of remodeling / property management / hiring contractors as well as have many contractors as clients.

I think painting is the bottom of the barrel. Why? Very low barriers to entry. Buy a ladder, brush, and tarp (optiona) and you are in business. Much of your competition is the same. You can differentiate in any business but it takes a knack.

Here is what I know. There are contractors who stumble into being in business and businesspeople who happen to make a living in construction. Consider the thoughts below:

1) Please be a businessperson first. Your question really suggests otherwise. Sorry if I offend.

2) Whatever business you select, a narrow focus and exploiting niches pays off big. I have a client who is a roofer who advertises like mad. They get 3x the price of the lowball guys. The price shoppers simply do not call them for estimates! They do an excellent job but that should cost 1.3x not 3x. They pocket the difference after advertising costs.

3) Niches build referrals. Become an expert in a tiny world and you can own that world. My FIL did this in a tiny part of law. He claims that he brought more banks to the FDIC to close than any other attorney during the recession. And the bankers were begging him to do it. Why? He was the expert.

4) Sell solutions not price. In business, there are only four differentiating factors: Price, Service, Quality (it has other words in different industries), and Relationship. We have largely been trained to sell Price. However, what did Lexus do to Toyota? Service / quality trumped price. I challenge you to mix up the equation so that you are paid fairly for your efforts.

5) Finally. When I was in business school, a professor mentioned that most small businesses only earn a salary for the owner. As owner, you should earn a ROI for your risk and investment as well as a salary. Hopefully you are building something that has value that you can sell when you wish to retire.

Best luck!
Larry

[MatMtl]

Money is in commercial and industrial. Stay out of homes.
Money is where you need more equipment to work... weeds out hacks.
Otherwise differienciate yourself from the hacks through outstanding craftmanship, which is acquired through years of hard work... there is much more to painting then whites and a new brush...