So...just how bad ARE Audis?
 

In my search for WRX wagons, there becomes a point where the incredibly high resale value of them compared with the incredibly low resale of late model Audis begs the question.

In a perfect world where mechanical objects never break, the Audi A4 Quattro Avante is clearly a nicer car and their AWD system and rally racing heritage is about equal to Subaru's, I think. The price differential between say a 2006 A4 QA and a 2006 wrx hatch with equal miles is close to half price from what I can ascertain.

How crazy to consider an Audi instead? This would be a 2.0 turbo only, manual trans if found but they seem to be 99% autos and we're talking 100k miles or more.

TIA for any real experience. I've read all the 2nd and 3rd hand opinions already. :)

I see a lot of those being driven by kids today too. Same rules apply I'm sure except parts cost a lot more. Maybe insurance too.

Bat guano crazy.

Missed your earlier thread, but have you considered an older UrS6 Avant? Might be older than what you're looking for, but great cars with a legendary reputation.
Tough finding one with low miles since their owners tend to drive the heck out of them.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/s...02168Large.jpg

Signed,
Nephew of an original owner of one with 325K miles on the clock.

Speeder,

I had an S6 Avant. Absolutely loved it. Comfortable and pretty quick. 340 hp.
Bought used w 50000 miles.
Only problem was the stereo crapped out.
Sold it w 78000 miles.
I believe approximately 80k miles is entering the "danger zone."

Matt

I have zero interest in any "special" Audi models that guzzle gas worse than the one I already mentioned and have BMW M5 parts prices. This would be a DD/winter car.

fwiw I had an '06 A3 for a couple of years (was a CPO car I bought in '07) and it was a great car. Had to replace coil packs (under warranty) which is evidently a typical event. My ex loved her A8 and finally let it go after almost 10 years. The last few years it was in nickel-and-quarter mode with various electrical and other things going wrong.

I think the A4 avant is a great looking and performing car. I'm sure you'll get horror stories here, but they can't all be failing, otherwise I wouldn't see so many on the road. Then again I apparently make many questionable vehicle choices :D

Guy who sits next to me is waiting on the word from the stealer on what's making his '09 A4 with 90k miles use a qt. of oil/600 miles. They installed a new separator valve at no charge a few weeks ago and now it's back for high oil consumption. My guess is it's gonna be very cheap or very expensive with nothing in between. His car got broken into a few weeks ago and the thieves knocked the rearview mirror off. $800 from the stealer to replace that. He had a headlight out and that was $350 from the stealer. I offered to do it with Pelican's $125 replacement bulb. Denis, I know you're as much a DIY'er as anyone can be, but seems to me an Audi would keep you busy. I sure love driving them when they belong to Hertz or Sixt, but wouldn't own one out of warranty.

man you are in the wrong forum. Especially if it's BLACK. ;)

rjp

Should change the name to PPOT + Anti AUDI forum.

rjp

There is an OT concesus on the other forums I visit as well. Nasioc + anti Audi, and lotustalk + anti audi is appropriate too.

I side with them based on limited circumstantial evidence. However I do love the looks of most all of their wagons.

Thanks. The thing is, it's not just the looks, (which are great), it's the performance, comfort, luxury and sportiness plus the best AWD system for snow on earth besides Subaru.

I still love the Subie wrx option but the prices for 100k+ mile used stock wagons is a major downer.

I'd love a V8 S4, but I don't want this in my life.

http://www.audi-forums.com/attachmen...ners-motor.jpg

Yup. 4 or 5 cylinder Audis only for me, thanks.

Ha! That's the simple one! You should see the diesels!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat6.gif

So, as for the VAG 2.0 turbo sludge issue, is it avoidable if the PO changed the synthetic often enough? I don't feel like spending a half a day reading about it on the web. :)

I've worked on a few. I wasnt impressed.

It seems the sludge problems were with the 1.8's and dino oil. I ran synthetic through my '05 A3 2.0T for 178k with zero problems

Maybe just get an older Subie wagon and throw on some graphics. You'll be the Koreatown sensation! :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1415820480.jpg

Around here in Switzerland, 2 things prevail about (modern) Audis:

Highway robbery maintenance prices and abysmal reliability.

Owned by mouth breathing idiots, spending 98% of their time about .00001in. from your rear bumper at highway speeds.

Hate those cars with a passion.

those timing chains face the firewall to right? Crazy. If you are an optimist you can say it is like a modern version of a carerra 4 cam.

Interesting. I would have thought that they were just common cars in Western Europe, no particular demographic.

What do you like for a good winter/skiing fun car? :cool:

Buy a new one.

According to Consumer Reports, Audi, which has shown steady improvement in vehicle reliability during recent years, moved up four places this year to finish fourth overall—the top European manufacturer in the survey. Three Audis, the A6 sedan, Q7 SUV and Allroad wagon, have “much better than average” reliability.

Not that I am a defender of Audi but I have had other cars that were a pos, notably Subaru or slugaru.

My first Audi was a 2000 A4 1.8L turbo Quattro, bought at 75K drove to 135K with a timing belt, water pump replace by myself, abs soldering fix, normal brake pads. Sold it when the ac was having problems for a 2006 A4 1.8L turbo Quattro S @ 48K. At 90K replaced timing belt and water pump, drove to 120K and traded it for a new 2013 A4 2.0L turbo Quattro with sport suspension, now have 18K on it, dealer takes care of it.

My wife bought a new 1998 A4 2.8L Quattro avant and drove to 165K original clutch, only issue was a leaky engine, the cam cover never could seal long to stop the oil leaks. Traded for a 2005 A4 1.8L Quattro avant, still driving it at 135K. I replaced timing belt, water pump at 90K.

My oldest son drove a 2002 A4 1.8L turbo Quattro to 220K replacing it with a new slugaru.

I use my '89 964 C4 as a winter DD. Quite reliable, considering its age and mileage.
For loaded trips, I have a '00 MB E280 4-matic, that is boring and reliable as a screwdriver, starts to rust here and there, but has given me zero trouble ,like it 3 E-class predecessors.
Audi demographics here is quite appalling. Posers caring only about image, above common sense and reliability. 20 inch winter whels, 3 inches of snow clearance lowered A4s, tinted windows for winter nights. And 3 times out of 4 driven by a <40y.o. male with gaping mouth.

2005 A4 Quattro 1.8T

145K clutch, front wheel bearing. Still tight>

That's pretty funny. :)

According to some that would be the case for BMWs in CA. :D

Around here, we call them "BMW".


I've got a 2004 A6 3.0 I'm looking to get rid of if you're interested. Beautiful car, nothing wrong, just time to move into something newer. Getting close to needing rear brakes, but that's it.

I have owned 16 quattros.
Look at my name, I have lived the audi quattro life.
When I got the allroad, I racked up $17000 worth of repairs in 16 months of unaltered, stock from the factory condition driving.
Since that car, I have been driving Japanese cars as my family cars and American trucks.
I drive my 930 engined pcar a lot. It's reliable.

^^^Agree. The used prices are so tempting but would have to stock up on caseloads of aspirins.

Its a wagon to haul schtuff. Don't need all the HP and zoomy engineering to do the job.

If it weren't for the crappy body longevity (contrary to Audi), I would like to find a clean appliance such as the MB W210 4-mat wagons of 1998-2002. Terrific fuel economy and incredibly reliable. Skip the dealers and its the lowest cost of maintenance eva! Edit- More reliable than any jap cars too!

W210 Mercedes wagons are decent cars but it truly does not get any more boring than that. Might as well drive an old Ford Taurus wagon, which I've actually owned and it wasn't a bad car.

My 2007 A4 Avant was supremely reliable and a great ski vehicle. In 6 years / 90K miles mostly routine maintenance and wear items (tires & brakes) and a new battery. Dealer replaced coil packs and evap regulator valve under warranty (well known and easily remedied issues; parts to do both would be ~$300). Many mechanical (driveline & brake) parts shared w/other VAG models & years; widely available & relative bargain. I got 25-27 mpg during heavy-footed road trips and 20-22 mpg in heavy-footed local driving. Love the 2.0T; torque peaks @ 1,500 rpm.

Only reason we got rid of it was to get a new Q5 (2.0T / 8-speed AT). Love the Q5 even more.

Audi is, like, fourth most common car here in Sweden (after Volvo, SAAB and VW).
But many are pedestrian models, 1.8, 1.8T etc. If you can do the job yourself, and/or there is a junkyard nearby, then I suppose it can be an economic choice.

I have 240kmiles UrS4 2.2t -93 as daily driver. Now and then, something breaks but there is (still) endless supply of junked Audi 100's to pick parts from.

I looked into buying B6 S4, but after a while I came to conclusion that I don't get much more compared to my UrS4... except 10x the price, higher insurance premium,rev happy engine that seem to crack the cylinder liners, smaller boot volume and you cannot install trailer hitch on the car as engine cooling is inadequate for towing (!).

So UrS4 it is...thirsty as hell (especially on E85) but iron block 5-cylinder is foolproof (but not leak-proof). And quattro is used for real, so are studded tires. Oh, it has 2.0E badge on the boot :D

P.S. A8 is a bargain! One day I'll buy a W12 just for hell of it...

2006 BMW 530xi Sport WAGON - $11000 (mid wilshire)

2006 BMW 530xi Sport WAGON

or 325xi wagon

I had one of the two most problem-prone Audi models - a B5 S4 (the other being a C5 Allroad). It was fantastic.

Yes, I destroyed the clutch. The TB/WP service cost a ton. But it was dead, rock solid reliable. Never left me stranded and the only "infamous" check engine light came from a 'misfire' during really cold months when I had been letting the car idle too long for my short drive (trying not to drive it cold).

The CEL is a different mentality. When it goes off in an American car, you generally don't need the light to tell you because the oil pressure, water temp, and visible smoke from the engine by already told you that there's a problem (exaggerating, I know). Japanese cars notify you a little earlier. German cars (VW/Audi in particular) will notify you that one coil pack registered resistance 5% out of range - something you will never notice driving. As long as you have common sense on vehicle issues and/or a scanner don't worry too much in a newer VW/Audi.

If I had any complaint about the generation you're talking about (B6), is the interior quality may be the next iteration of what BMW found in the E36. It's not garbage, but compared to the model lines before and after it, it's a bit disappointing.

For what its worth, I bought a brand new 2002 A4 1.8T Quat in 2002. Its coming up on 230,000 miles now. I've had relatively few problems. Wheel bearings, a few minor sensors, waterpump, fuel pump. Car went to the dealer for a coil pack problem in the first two weeks we had it, and has never been back. Since then all maintenance and repairs have been done by me (manuals and diagnostic software are required). It is a manual tranny/no sunroof/zero options car (I ordered it this way). Really a pleasant car to drive. Unbeatable for winter driving. It is getting tired now, and I can see problems starting to develop. I feel I got my money's worth.

In England a few years back, Audi superseded BMW in this regard. And also in Blighty, Subaru's are often seen as bulletproof, or at least as reliable and long-lasting .

Discussing autos with my colleagues in Germany, they do not understand why Audi's are so highly regarded in the US.

Call me crazy, but I bought a 2009 A3 2.0T DSG with 120K a couple years ago , love the thing. Currently has 170K. CEL soon after I got it, did some research and apparently all the direct injected motors (BMW, Mini, VAG) have the problem with deposits on the intake & intake valves (no fuel to clean them). I pulled the intake cleaned the intake runners and valves. Wasn't fun but wasn't difficult. Problem solved, but with the high mileage I think it will need this about every 60K, I am starting to see my mileage drop around town. I hadn't seen a car with so many miles, that looked and drove like new. If I get 200K out of the thing I will be a happy. Oh, and 2009 no timing belt its a chain, I sure wouldn't want to change it.