I feel exactly the same way as you. I don't like it when people try to take my guns or give my money to wasteful projects like the F35 or to support third world countries with lots of natural resources.

God forbid we use the same money to develop infrastructure and technology in THIS country.

Btw, some people might consider a military pension to be social welfare.

Wow - a military pension is social welfare?

I am losing hope...

I didnt say I agreed with it. Im saying that some people see it that way. Fint wants to cut all social welfare, great. I mostly agree.

If we're generalizing by generations and their impact on the world, it's pretty tough for baby boomers to point the finger at ANYONE. Millenials and their skinny jeans aren't to blame for my health care costs nearly doubling in a few years, my former employer going bankrupt after 2008 and being taken over by a competitor, crushing national debt, failing programs like social security, yada yada yada. Didn't happen on my watch boys....

Good point, puppy.

Oh wait, there's another country we need to free the s*** out of...

These “my generation is better than your generation” arguments fascinate me.

Sanctimonious bull crap.

The truth is that every generation has done great things and horrible things.
And what one generation considers reprehensible another considers perfectly acceptable.

And the next new generation isn’t necessarily getting it wrong.
You want to talk about how much better your generation is than the next? Take a long look in the mirror first. So which generation is yours?

My generation thought racial segregation was perfectly acceptable
My generation saw a black man kiss a white woman on TV and considered it morally reprehensible
My generation saw one man kiss another man on TV and considered it morally reprehensible
My generation legalized abortion
My generation dumped huge amounts of lead into the environment
My generation dumped trillions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere and pretended it had no effect on the environment
My generation sent quadrillions of dollars to the middle east because we were too cheap to develop renewable energy
My generation unleashed atomic weapons on the world and spent the rest of our lives hoping we die before the technology is used to vaporize our descendants.
My generation legalized marijuana
My generation made music that literally changed the world
My generation used that same music to sell cars, credit cards, beer, fitness water, sports drinks, candy, yogurt, video games, diet soda, douchbag clothes, sneakers, erectile dysfunction medication, wireless telephone service , gasoline, deodorant, satellite TV, investment services, incontinence protection, office supplies, pizza, potato chips, department stores, breakfast cereal, fast food, diamond rings, fried chicken, cat food, mayonnaise, hotels, chewing gum, tires, fiber bars, car insurance and shi**ty operating systems. You people are going to hell.

Defense is a Constitutional mandate. All members of the nation benefit from national defense. Folks that you (the American people) elected determined that the F-35 was the most effective way to defend the nation.

Conversely, there is nothing in the Constitution regarding social welfare and it does not benefit Americans equally. Just the opposite.

Private enterprise and the free market are the appropriate vehicles to develop infrastructure and technology in THIS country.

A military pension is agreed-to compensation between two parties for providing a service. If you object to paying it, you object to paying your (the nation's bills). Assuming you have savings or a retirement plan...wouldn't you find it unacceptable for it to be taken away after you earned/saved it?

Lost me here. Are you claiming baby-boomers (as a group) caused these problems?

thats exactly what he's saying. Many of these problems cropped up well before most of us could vote, or were a result of things set into motion long before we could....

TV is about making the most money possible in the shortest amount of time so is it any wonder it's so bad?

The commercial content is relentless. Honestly I can't see how people can watch it for hours on end.
Sitcoms are just that... Situation Comedies. They've never had anything to do with reality.
The dumb white guy as a central character is a universal one. Looking at it now it just seems so lame.

Don't even get me started on so called "Reality TV".

But TV does affect culture. I'm sure people adjust their morals based on what's presented as "OK" on TV.

My neighbour is a cop (a good one) and he's convinced the crime shows affect what people do out in the real world.
I'm not sure he's right but I'm not a cop so I can't really fault his logic.

The observations you see here are just that, observations and comparisons (by folks who have watched several decades of young folks enter adulthood). While there are certainly exceptions, the generation, as a whole, appears soft, weak, undisciplined and poorly educated. Their parent's generation was as well, as was the boomers (but each has been successively worse).

My generation and the subsequent one...own the creation of an overly generous welfare state (pretty stupid IMHO). Your generation has made it a way of life. Hard work and sacrifice are no longer valued as they once were...and why should they be, when politicians line up to promise you the fruits of the labor of others.

If you are under 25 I will grant you the voting part. Otherwise...not so much. You can always claim that the crap that happened on your watch somehow was caused by the previous person, group, or administration. Each previous generation has had challenges and has met them. Yours is not the first...just the most prone to look for excuses. If you are 25 or older, the national debt has more than doubled since you started voting...and your generation has made it clear that your vote can be bought with other people's money...or some sob story that is glaringly short on facts (which you really don't want to hear). Previous generations were bad enough...but the crying about wanting your educational loans paid for and jobs not paying enough, etc. is just sad. Especially when there are so many unfilled position that illegals pour into the country to fill them while young US citizens refuse the work. When I was that age...my job didn't pay much either. Instead of crying about it (or wanting a handout of other people's money), I got a couple of extra, jobs doing exactly what your generation apparently refuses to do...just like most folks who were not skilled enough or experienced enough to find a better job. Working long enough, hard enough and smart enough eventually brought success and better compensation.

That is the old definition of wealth redistribution...working harder and smarter than the other guy until it pays off. Now that the group of folks paying most of the taxes is so much smaller than the group who pay no federal taxes...and in fact, get back more than they pay (wonder where that money comes from?), all voters have to do is vote for the fellow that offers them more of another's earnings...and they do (when they bother to vote).

So only those in generations younger than you are collecting on government programs? Because I'm fairly certain that's wrong in every possible way.....

Hate to break it to you Fint, but your story isn't special. I grew up in a trailer dirt poor, to parents that didn't have college degrees. I worked my way through college with a full time job, full load of engineering courses, and a wife and kid. I worked my ass off in my career and excelled to the point that most of my peers had 20+ years of experience more than I. When my company went bankrupt, was purchased by our primary competitor, and my organization was downsized, I started my own business to support my family. You know what? I'm not special either, because I know many others that have similar stories. I know lots of 20-somethings that are working hard to improve their lives. Though I'm sure in your eyes they are worthless because they don't look like you. My brother in law works 70+ hours and six days per week as a truck driver to support his family, but I'm sure you would instantly discard him because he has a flat billed hat, skinny jeans, and DC shoes. He's also a huge car guy that loves to wrench on his A4, but you'd probably never get far enough in conversation to find that you have things in common.

Generalizing and painting with a broad brush shows a real lack of understanding of the topic at hand. Turn off the news, or whatever crap source of information that you favor, and get out into the world. I suspect that if you approach it with an open mind, you'd find that many of your stereotypes are patently false.

I find it odd that every time that ideas are discussed here that the first response is almost always some sort of personal attack. I fail to see that as much of an argument...and more admission of failure.

I do also find it odd that what little argument (other than the personal insults) consists, not if ideas, but rather of exceptions that I already pointed out existed. I guess in a world where everyone gets a trophy, introspection or discussion of ideas is just too difficult. It is always easier to attack the messenger vice the message.

Obviously if the folks you point out in previous generations are welfare queens...then they are also part of the problem as I pointed out. Similarly, those in your generation that provide for themself and their family without requiring others help provide involuntary charity/assistance....then they are not the problem. The problem is the large number of folks who chose not to do so (the largest percentage in the history of this nation).

Fint argues for the sake of arguing. It's a hobby for him. Obfuscation, digression, and strawmen are his tactics. If you don't like it, stop responding to his posts.

i hope so. wifey says we need to support the kids until they are 30. i said, i'm going for a drive.

seriously, we have serious economic problems we need to solve.
1. health care costs and entitlement spending will spike. how do we deal with that besides means testing social security? i think more seniors will get reverse mortgages to help out the kids and grandkids. the best health care spending is prevention. healthy seniors cost less, are happier and live much longer to help out with the grandkids. that's win-win for everyone. so less drugs and more healthy lifestyle education.
2. reconfiguring our households to accommodate multi-generation families. fact is kids stay at home, so why not build a wing of the house for them when they get married and have kids. pool childcare, meals, transportation, and take advantage of lower property taxes by adding on to grandparent's house to all live together instead of buying an expensive newer house in the suburbs with a long commute.
3. revive our service and crafts industry. we need to value and pay carpenters, plumbers, machinists, welders, and masons. quality and craftsmanship have been devalued by cheap, generic, ugly chinese imports. stop buying from ikea and walmart. pay the carpenter to make furniture. pay the mason to build a custom fireplace, or the blacksmith to make a gate. quality, hand-made things that last are less expensive in the long-run and more beloved and cherished. remember a time we used to pass down furniture, tools, fine china or silver to the next generation?
4. our trade agreements should be renegotiated. our import tariffs are too low for china and other countries. american beef, agricultural products, technology, and weapons should be worth a lot more. but free-trade has devalued our goods around the world.

in terms of this thread, it seems we have a generational divide. as porsche owners, we are all very lucky. so why not lay down our collective rhetoric sword and shields. it seems we are all in a us vs them mentality. what's better is to agree on what we disagree on, put that on a shelf, then focus on the areas, however small, we do agree on. then let's form a superpac and pressure our elected officials to do something. congress has left for recess. infighting is all our federal government can do. we don't pay them to do nothing.

Thank you, Matt. Very well put, and your personal anecdotes add weight to your argument. It's people like you that are going to right this ship, thinking outside the box and using technology in new ways. Your kids' world will look completely different than the world that some seem to have a burning nostalgia for - which may or may not have ever existed.

Nice of you to visit from PARF just to take a shot at me. If you ever had a valid argument, you would not have to resort to personal attacks like this one.

Fix your argument and you will not need such weasel tactics to salve your ego.

Fint: "My generation and the subsequent one...own the creation of an overly generous welfare state (pretty stupid IMHO). Your generation has made it a way of life."

I'm 51. IDK how old you are but I've assumed you're around my age. The overly generous welfare state was inevitable, and put in motion in the 30's. Unless you're way older than me, I have a hard time accepting that our generation created it. Once most things like this get started, they remain forever. I can't think of a government program (or tax) that's ever been eliminated. Aren't we still paying a tax for the Spanish-American war?

I'm accepting no responsibility for the putrid welfare state!

A poster earlier mentioned that young ones in flyover states may value honesty, have a work ethic, and practice monogamy. That's true of all generations. It's also not true for all generations. You're always going to have deadbeats, regardless of generation.

I despise looking at my girlfriend's facebook page. My grammar and spelling are far from perfect, but facebook posts are embarrassing to read. Add foul language and a culture that accepts characters named "baby daddy," and I'm ready to check out. The model spellers and grammar wizards are young and old, however. I do live in a cultural armpit, though, so I can't be too critical. :-)

The generational war of words has perhaps intensified as the country has seen greater challenges. America's position as the world's dominant power is slowly ending. The days of an undramatic, comfortable middle-class lifestyle are dying. We have borrowed from tomorrow to fund today's good days. Eventually, the bill will come due. If the finger pointing is bad now, wait until the pinch truly hits.

Jurgen

As each new generation attained the age to vote, they had enough power to stop the madness...and did not. Unfortunately, my generation...and your generation share the blame....because we didn't put the reins on sufficiently when we had the chance...and the next ones allowed it to be even worse. To them...this idiocy seems normal. If indeed, millennials are "poor, beat down and emasculated"...and many do seem to be to an even larger extent that previous generations. Each new generation has seemed to worsen (not all, but a larger proportion) and the previous generation acts as an enabler.

As far as increased spending and folks not working...eventually there has to be a tipping point. Whether it is illegal immigration (which depresses wages) or subsidies to not work. If you give your kid has a part time job that requires him to get up early on Saturday, giving him $20 might not result in him quitting his job. If you gave him an allowance of $20 a week it might. If you gave him $200 a week, it would be even more likely. The same is true for helping out your neighbors. What is too much? Give you buddy across the street $20K because he is on hard times---or give the entire neighborhood $50K a year if they quit their jobs and stay home. How many would stay home?

If you look at the following Charts (late FY14 and 15 are projections):
First, fewer and fewer Americans choose to work (some can be explained by the aging population...but the statistics show that the rate has dropped much faster that predicted based on pop.).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416582430.jpg
How are we encouraging this lack of participation:
Welfare spending which discourages work and take funds away from legitimate business?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416582708.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416582752.jpg
Spending
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416583339.jpg
State and Local Spending?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416583403.jpg
Social Security expansion?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416583437.jpg
Healthcare cost escalation?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416583472.jpg
How is it payed for? Debt?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416583527.jpg
...and to answer the earlier question regarding defense spending...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416583601.jpg