This is what happens when you smoke too much MJ
 

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The guys grow boobs and the girls grow beards?

Seriously - I am not against MJ. Experimented as a child. Saw it made me stupid so I stopped. (OK Too late). What will become of us when it is legal?

They look happy enough. :)

But seriously. I know what you mean.

Looks to me they spared two other people.

i'd say that the least of their problems is MJ.

i just talked to my friend in CO. he said things are just fine.

What will become of us? What do you mean? I've done it, effects are neglible, but it gives me heart palps. Ill stick to alcohol, even though it can be much worse.

But, I believe in balance. I drink, but I'm far from an alcoholic. I smoke cigars, but only on occasion. Sooo nothing will happen to me, because even if it was legal neither myself, my friends or my family would partake. Just because something is legal doesn't mean the general populus will suddenly indulge, especially considering it is so available.

Why do you think "US" will be so likely to indulge when it is legalized? Are you worried a childhood temptation could manifest and you will grow a beard and wear a weed necklace???

I just don't understand why some people think all of a sudden the fabric of society will crumble because of some weed when the real epidemic is celebrity worship...

amen.

I wish the elderly people around here appeared to be as happy as this couple seems to be.
Does the end justify the means? Dunno.

They look very happy, so more power to them!

Why do we judge people by our personal standards and then try to force compliance? We should celebrate our diversity of thought and difference as part of what makes us a strong republic. I don't see their choice of lifestyle hurting anyone and some of you need to remove the stiff stick from your lower region.

Pot stereotypes are so silly. I know some regular users, who would work most of us into submission by lunchtime , and they get up and do it every day. Focused, driven, hard working, and successful. They will call you Nancy if you try to take a break, or can't keep up.
One of my friends had a garage built for him by the Amish. These guys showed up at sunrise, and worked till sundown , and what surprised him was that they smoked pot all day long. Never skipped a beat.
Built him a seriously beautiful wooden garage in one weeks time.
I'm thinking the couple above may have played with some hallucinogens

The sky is falling. The sky is falling.
Thing are just fine out here. Like everything else, if you don't care for it, don't do it.

Interesting question. You may want to ask it of yourself. You can celebrate as much as you think is appropriate but please don't tell me what you think I should celebrate. In addition, your premise, by the way, does not seem to be the case. This republic is more diverse than ever before and weaker than ever before.

Finally, even if we were stronger as a republic-which does not appear to be supported by just about every measure imaginable-where is the evidence that diversity of thought made us so?

I would have to disagree. They look virtually unemployable. If MJ indeed makes you that way....it seems pretty dangerous to me (and studies of heavy, long term use indicate that it is is very unhealthy, especially for younger folks).

i don't think that diversity has any causation to the weakness of the republic. rather, IMO, it is the divisiveness that exists that has weakened, and is weakening, the republic.

Smoking and staying on the high-grade weed today has some negative effects:

Your judgement is impaired(moral/ethical)

Your in a perpetual fog bank...

Perpetual procrastination(i'll do it tomorrow...maybe...maybe never)

Short-term memory loss(and like GM food, God knows what the long term effects are), and diminished inability to focus/concentrate.

I had more than my fair share in school, but it should be a 'phase' to pass thru, not a continued lifestyle into adulthood.

Only when your NOT smoking...then you can reflect of where you were.

Life's just better with a clear head...and it reflects not only what you mean, what you say, but what you actually do.

um.... given their age, so what. and you might be surprised at who is and isn't employable; i can see those two working as greeters at walmart. for all we know, they are retired millionaires. hell, i have a tattoo and long hair and wear birkenstocks nearly every day. i am gainfully employed and make pretty decent money. not like some on this board, by any means, but i do not want.

They don't look employable, I will agree to that. They don't want to work, many people are equally as unemployable without MJ. Thus MJ alone is not a good indicator of employability. Similarly, if someone came into my office drunk, I would not want to hire them. Or if they came in hungover. Your right! We should make alcohol illegal! Oops, I meant MJ :rolleyes:

So what your saying is that if something, after heavy and long term use, can be considered unhealthy, especially for the younger folk, it should be deemed an illegal substance and frowned upon?

Tobacco, soda, pizza, alcohol i.e. wine, beer spirits, television, pron, coffee, various prescription and over the counter drugs.

I'm not following your argument...

Your absolutely right. Staying on ANYTHING heavily and for a long time usually has negative effects. However, I think the root of the issue has to do with moderation and lifestyle choices. Those two obviously do not have the mental maturity to handle something that causes them enjoyment and enjoy it in moderation.

There will ALWAYS be people like that with absolutely any and everything that causes some sort of pleasure.

How about kids and video games? The list is endless. But making it illegal is not the answer, proper education is.

I'm not even a user, I just can't stand the terrible arguments opposing MJ :confused:.

It's seriously the least of our worries right now. Legalize it, regulate it and tax it.

The argument that it is unhealthy and bad for you through prolonged and heavy use is suchhhhh a poor argument.

Gateway drug, nop. Most of the people I know, have done it. Most do not do it anymore. None have tried anything "harder"

Give me an argument with some substance!

One of the dumbest posts I have seen in a long time.

It's yet one other thing the closet fascists (who pretend to be for "freedom") want to tell the nanny state to criminalize. Of course, they stand up and piously declare that they stand for "the general welfare", but really, what they want is for all of us to be (and think) like them. Or maybe that some pigs should be more equal than others... "But, it's for their own good!"

LOL, just LOL.

Nope. People a dropping like flies.
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[green text implied]

MJ(especially this high-grade stuff now) stays in the system a LONG time: THC is a non-polar molecule that stays in the fatty tissues of the brain and body fat. That's why a single joint of this high-grade stuff can stay in the body for 7-30 days(under present gas-chromatography methods).

Consider surgery...want your doctor about to slice into you to be "faded"...get on that Boeing aircraft and look out that window...want that engineer who designed and stress tested those wings attached to be "faded"...or maybe you have been falsely accused of murder or rape...want your attorney "faded".

Now consider a nation of youth going on their merry way...half-baked.

I've known friends who NEVER stopped even for a day since their teen years, and have no concept it is to have a clear-head...that's as tragic as needing to drink every day(and claiming there is no problem)

Since we are aimlessly posting some crappy statistics...

In 2012, 10,322 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.

Cashflyer...

Your use of a Nancy Grace meme has hints of sarcasm. I can't tell if you are kidding or serious. Please advise.

The number of robberies from January through April fell by 4.8 percent from the same time in 2013, and assaults were down by 3.7 percent. Over all, crime in Denver is down by about 10 percent, though it is impossible to say whether changes to marijuana laws played any role in that decline.[/QUOTE]

Aging population here is a variable, and in every country where lead-gas was banned, a drop in crime was a found as a positive correlation. Lead in the body does some whacked shyte.

Of course, weed is a very powerful de-motivational drug, and in men(who predominately do the violent crimes), it also raises the estrogen level in the blood-stream, just as being overweight raises the estrogen level in men as the body struggles keeping fat-cells alive).

Remember folks...statistics is the study of GROUPS, not the individual. That's how insurance companies make their $$$

Commonnnnn. This is a complete falsity! Just because it can be detected in the body does not mean it is having an effect!!!!

No matter how it gets into your system, it affects almost every organ in your body, and your nervous system and immune system, too. When you smoke pot, your body absorbs THC right away. (If you eat a baked good or another item, it may take much longer for your body to absorb THC, because it has to break down in your stomach before it enters your bloodstream). You may notice changes in your body right after you smoke. The effects usually stop after 3 or 4 hours.

Your examples, and your own personal example is concerning HEAVY PROLONGED USERS! Heavy prolonged anything is bad for you.

Your not giving me anything here that is substantial enough to warrant it to be universally illegal. Should we make prescription and over the country drugs illegal because the long term effects of heavy and prolonged use are negative? Please answer.

Have you studied any physiology, or how neurotransmitters work in neural networks in the brain, or what induces or reduces the transmission of information between synapses or pharmacology? That's part of what I do being a medical device engineer.

Subjective opinions don't supersede objective data which can be validated thru independent sources and experimentation(such as "that music was nice", versus during the day, with a fair amount of certainty without clouds, the sky will appear blue(unless your color blind))

Maybe because weed(like alcohol) is mainstream now and widely accepted, your having difficulty accepting that you simply cannot get around cause and effect.

You can get away with virtually ANYTHING, including smoking, drinking, excessive food consumption, etc. But like football, it's the 2nd Half which is usually the real kicker. How your going to 'arrive' at the later half of your life is up to you.

And I mean that in good health! :D

Marijuana's long-term effects on the brain demonstrated -- ScienceDaily

""What's unique about this work is that it combines three different MRI techniques to evaluate different brain characteristics," said Dr. Sina Aslan, founder and president of Advance MRI, LLC and adjunct assistant professor at The University of Texas at Dallas. "The results suggest increases in connectivity, both structural and functional that may be compensating for gray matter losses. Eventually, however, the structural connectivity or 'wiring' of the brain starts degrading with prolonged marijuana use."

Tests reveal that earlier onset of regular marijuana use induces greater structural and functional connectivity. Greatest increases in connectivity appear as an individual begins using marijuana. Findings show severity of use is directly correlated to greater connectivity.

Although increased structural wiring declines after six to eight years of continued chronic use, marijuana users continue to display more intense connectivity than healthy non-users, which may explain why chronic, long-term users "seem to be doing just fine" despite smaller OFC brain volumes, Filbey explained."

Nop not at all. I rely on an analytic skills combined with research. This topic isn't one I have the inclination to extensively research so I can barely break the surface on a technical level. However, most of the people in the positions to legislate MJ, be it both the advocates and oppositions, also do not have the physiological knowledge either.

Also, you will have research from both sides that claim to have objective data that it is either harmful or not harmful, both short and long term. If you say that is not the case, you can present data supporting your side, and i'll find data supporting mine - but then we would just be kicking tires.

Knowing both the short term and long term health effects of MJ is important, and should be researched, so that we can warn and educate appropriately.

However, ultimately the long term users will continue to binge, and will get the stuff from suppliers, whether it is legal or not. The recreational users will also still get the stuff from suppliers, whether it is legal or not.

I don't want my doctor faded, the engineer faded, or my attorney faded. I neither want my doctor, the engineer, or my attorney to take a swig of whiskey from a flask in their jacket pocket. I also do not want them sleep deprived, or taking any heavy painkillers, or on any other drug that may cause drowsiness.

I feel like we have digressed, because I am not arguing that it has no effect, or that those effects are in no way harmful, especially long term. I'm simply arguing that the relation between the cause and effect of MJ does not warrant illegalization, nor does it preclude some sort of apocalyptic decline in the function of society as a whole, because society as a whole will not transform into the two people in the original post upon it's legalization.

:)

I find it interesting that my observations of people who smoke pot (in another thread) is dismissed and not being scientific yet JD decides that his observations of people he knows is acceptable anecdotal evidence and no one howls.

But lets put all that aside.

Simple question: why is it OK to spend millions to campaign against smoking a filtered cigarette for health reasons but no one sees a problem with smoking unfiltered weed?

i don't care if people do either.

however, i do think that people do more harm to their lungs, overall, with cigarettes than with marijuana. how much marijuana does a person smoke in a day compared to how much a smoker of cigarettes smokes in a day?

i have no evidence, nor citation, but i'd bet that a person staying stoned all day does less damage than a person that smokes two packs+/day of cigarettes.

further, there is no medical reason to smoke tobacco. there are many benefits to smoking marijuana for certain patient types, such as those on chemotherapy. it is my opinion that we are seeing a backlash from the ludicrously strict laws prohibiting marijuana that we had in the past. it'll all settle out, IMO.

Which anecdotal evidence is it exactly that you disagree with?

And as for your simple question.

An estimated 42.1 million people smoke cigs in the states.
Similarly, more than 400,000 deaths each year are attributed to tobacco smoking. and another 8.6 million live with a serious illness caused by smoking.

I don't have a figure butI know the numbers will be astronomically lower when you compare weed. If MJ had those kinds of numbers, we would see similar campaigning.

The numbers of deaths from smoking weed are not properly measured since the activity is hidden since has been is illegal AND legalizing it will remove the stigma that prevents more people from inhaling unfiltered burning leaves.

Simple question. Which of my anecdotal evidence do you disagree with?

What numbers do you have? I'd like to compare them, even though they are not quite accurate.

A hookah pipe is legal, I believe that is inhaling unfiltered burning leaves. And it is not illegal to smoke unfiltered burning leaves. Why should it be illegal to smoke an unfiltered burning leaf? If i want to smoke a maple leaf, I damn well better be legally able to.

So is your issue with MJ or smoking an unfiltered leaf?

Tobacco cigarettes are no longer tobacco.
They add all kinds of poisonous additives which would be highly illegal by themselves.
(Why not throw asbestos in the blend while they are at it?)

The same is true with the drug wars.
As a direct result of these government policies, most MJ is no longer the wild natural plant with a slight psychotropic byproduct.
MJ is highly concentrated these days.

So the detrimental user aftereffects that the anti-drug people complain about....are the same ones they have helped create.

so you think that there are a LOT of people out there that are now going to become regular users of MJ, because it is legal? you really think that the people that want to smoke MJ don't, because it was illegal?

People aren't smoking "leaves."

The study I linked to is from 2014 and was published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Science (PNAS - a top tier journal).

Does smoking cannabis cause cancer? | Cancer Research UK
Marijuana poses more risks than many realize
Does Smoking Marijuana Cause Lung Cancer

You're word-smithing. I was making a word picture of inhaling a burning plant. Trust me, I know all too well about pot and, unlike slick willie clinton... And please don't use the tired excuse that there are other forms of THC delivery since the great majority is firing up.

Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

and...

Because cannabinoid receptors, unlike opioid receptors, are not located in the brainstem areas controlling respiration, lethal overdoses from Cannabis and cannabinoids do not occur.[1-4]

and...

Although cannabinoids are considered by some to be addictive drugs, their addictive potential is considerably lower than that of other prescribed agents or substances of abuse.[2,4] The brain develops a tolerance to cannabinoids.

Withdrawal symptoms such as irritability, insomnia with sleep electroencephalogram disturbance, restlessness, hot flashes, and, rarely, nausea and cramping have been observed. However, these symptoms appear to be mild compared with withdrawal symptoms associated with opiates or benzodiazepines, and the symptoms usually dissipate after a few days.

Unlike other commonly used drugs, cannabinoids are stored in adipose tissue and excreted at a low rate (half-life 1–3 days), so even abrupt cessation of cannabinoid intake is not associated with rapid declines in plasma concentrations that would precipitate severe or abrupt withdrawal symptoms or drug cravings.

Since Cannabis smoke contains many of the same components as tobacco smoke, there are valid concerns about the adverse pulmonary effects of inhaledCannabis. A longitudinal study in a noncancer population evaluated repeated measurements of pulmonary function over 20 years in 5,115 men and women whose smoking histories were known.[5] While tobacco exposure was associated with decreased pulmonary function, the investigators concluded that occasional and low-cumulative Cannabis use was not associated with adverse effects on pulmonary function (forced expiratory volume in the first second of expiration [FEV1] and forced vital capacity [FVC]).