I know ****-all about livestock but I was told they're dairy cows. We've done a lot of flights from Australia and Canada to Kazakhstan with about 300 head per flight. Not sure if they had some disease or genetic condition that required them to repopulate their bovine stock. We can hear them kicking around on takeoff and landing usually and the smell is god awful but I'll take them over PITA passengers any day.

I can't imagine a company employee referring to his customers as PITA.

What airline do you fly for?

When I sobor up properly, I'll tell ya about a Navy wife that took up a triple in the pax compartment of a C5 .

Motion, you are one of my favorite Pelican posters. You have great taste in cars (I was around in the Stradale days), live in one of my favorite places (Red Lodge), seem to have a love for lots of toys (RC helicoptors and more), and collect and race motorcycles.

But your positive, have-fun attitude is the best part! You seem to have found a way to really appreciate life, and want to live it to its fullest, and I really respect that and enjoy being inspired by it.

The last couple years of epic travel schedules is just another example. When I see your threads, I think of the ad campaign from some outdoors company or magazine that says "Get Out There"! (I can't seem to remember whose ad that actually is).

So, you have alluded to the "pro-actively getting status" several times. Have you figured out a way to basically get half of your trips for free? I have been to Asia several times and I can almost see how that can work. When you travel as many miles as you do, and maybe intentionally take the round about way, maybe you can just keep getting more and more until First Class is the norm, and you only pay for about half of what you do. Can you shed some light on your "system", if you indeed have one?

Keep on, keeping on!

JA

Well, that's on me for wording it poorly. Certainly 99% of the passengers I've flown don't fall into that category. That 1% however will challenge even the sunniest of dispositions. You've done a lot of travelling, spent a lot of time in airports and seen those particular individuals giving holy hell to the ticket counter, security people, and gate agents. By the time they get to the airplane they're so salty there's just no talking sense to them. I've had a passenger stick his finger into my chest and call me a p***y for not taking off into a 50 knot shear. Most of us could write a book detailing bad passenger behavior if we had the inclination.
In my current job I fly well over 100k a year as a passenger. I'm gold on United, Platinum on AA, and silver on Delta. I experience the same frustrations as all of you. I guess the difference is, I've seen both sides of the coin and choose not to take it out on the crews who are just trying to do their jobs and have no direct control over the conditions.
Apologies if you took offense at the PITA comment, wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

Oh, and I flew for a Delta subsidiary for 13 years and now for a primarily cargo airline.

So start an airline that does this. See if it succeeds.

There's a reason all the carriers that are still in business subscribe to the same (or very similar) "no frills", el-cheapo, everything-is-an-extra model. Because it's the only way to stay alive and remain viable. Jury is still out with respect to Virgin America which is more similar to the "service-based" model you suggest. They have better service and amenities than most but they're not exactly thriving either, last I heard.

If you fly for pleasure or sit up front, of course you have a different attitude!

I kept AA Platinum for a couple years, but biz changed and traveling was cut. Status makes seating and boarding easier, but not the rest of it. And I always treat the gate people and FA's with respect and appreciation. More than half the time, I get back, Meh...

You have confirmed what I have observed from watching airline employees. Airline employees think of us passengers as just pains in the ass, not paying customers. That attitude is no doubt the root of the problem. If I took that attitude toward my customers I'd be out of business in a year. The whole airline industry needs an attitude adjustment.

Sorry man, but you just don't get it. This isn't a retail store. Passengers certainly can become PITA, and if you don't get that, then I don't know where you've been hiding out your whole life.

This whole attitude of The Customer is always right is bull, but you seem to buy into it.

How about you work front line in the airline business for about two years, then tell us the same thing. You won't.\\I'm just glad I'm locked behind a cockpit door, because most people, including me, don't have the patience to deal with the 2 percent who are PITA's on any given flight.

This. I fly almost every other week if not more in some months. It's not for everybody, that's for sure and I suppose one day it might get tiring for me and I will move to a different job. The way I look at it, everybody is trying to do their job and it gets stressful. I can tell you this much, I wouldn't quit my job to go into the airline industry. It's a hard industry to work in from being a flight attendant, to pilot, to the guy figuring out what the optimum price point is. I wouldn't want to do it. So, I take my nice salary that I know is partially inflated because I do travel a lot, settle in with my nice travel pillow, put on some nice quiet music through my headphones and take a nap... Even through the hour sitting on the runway in a delay. I can't say a lot of people get paid for for taking a nap during business hours. :)

Beijing (CNN)—Chinese-style air rage is now served both hot and cold.

Last month, a China-bound Thai AirAsia flight was forced to return to Bangkok after a female Chinese passenger threw hot water on a flight attendant amid a heated argument between her boyfriend and the cabin crew over service.

On Saturday, passengers on a plane departing Kunming Changshui International Airport in southwestern China, angry with the crew for turning off the air-conditioning during the de-icing process, opened three emergency exits just as their plane was pushing back from the gate.

The flight was canceled and 25 passengers onboard were detained.

China Eastern Airlines flight MU2036, bound for Beijing, was already seven hours behind schedule at 3:45 a.m. when crew began to de-ice the plane at the Kunming airport, which saw more than 100 flights delayed or canceled that night because of snowy weather.



Frustrated by the lengthy delay, some of the 153 passengers -- who had been sitting on the plane for two hours -- exploded with rage when the air-conditioning stopped and an elderly passenger complained about discomfort due to the stuffy cabin, airport police told state media Saturday night.

Dissatisfied with the pilot's explanation about the need for air-conditioning to be off during the 30-minute de-icing process, members of a tour group started quarreling with the crew, according to police.

When the Boeing 737-800 jet finally pushed back from the gate, three of its four over-the-wing emergency exits suddenly popped open.

Photos circulating on social media show two opened exits on the right side of the cabin with passengers still seated, as well as crews and police on board documenting evidence.

Air rage and emergency exists: Stormy weeks in Chinese aviation

Anger common in delay-prone China

After detaining and questioning all 25 members of the tour group, the authorities announced that a male member of the group, prompted by a female tour guide, opened two exits on the right side.

Both were sent to jail for 15 days, while police continued to look for the person who opened the exit on the left side.

As news of the incident spread, some Chinese Internet users sympathized with the perpetrators because of the delay, but many considered their punishment too lenient and suggested airlines should blacklist them for life.

Air rage is a common sight in delay-prone China and Saturday's episode was not the first dramatic incident involving irate passengers at Kunming airport.

One of the country's busiest hubs, more than 32 million fliers passed through its terminal last year.

In August 2012, 31 passengers from a long-delayed flight tried to stop other planes from leaving Kunming by forcing their way onto the tarmac and occupying a taxiway for half an hour, state-run Xinhua news agency reported.

The following February, some 50 passengers from a canceled flight stormed several gates at the airport in an attempt to prevent other travelers from boarding their flights.

Police had to disperse the angry crowd with pepper spray, according to Xinhua.

Exporting air rage

With the exponential growth of outbound tourism, Chinese travelers now seem to be exporting their air rage overseas as well, with several incidents resulting in flight delays or diversions recorded in recent years.

In February 2012, a Chinese couple was kicked off their United flight from Guam to Shanghai, after they repeatedly yelled at a flight attendant and told her to "shut up" when she tried to move their luggage in the overhead bin to accommodate other passengers.

In September that year, a Swiss flight bound for Beijing was forced to return to Zurich when a fight broke out between two Chinese men over a reclined seat.

In February 2014, a fight erupted between two groups of Chinese passengers before their flight could take off from the Thai resort island of ****et, resulting in 29 people being taken off the plane.

Then, in April, a Thai Airways red-eye from Bangkok to Beijing turned bloody when a brawl involving three Chinese men broke out.

During an official visit to the Maldives in September, President Xi Jinping personally asked Chinese tourists to behave themselves while traveling abroad.

Last year the government released a lengthy list of do's and don'ts aimed at turning Chinese travelers into "civilized tourists."

That is an excellent summary of the situation. Thanks Scott for sharing... I still hate flying nowadays (mostly it's the surrender of all control, dignity, timing, and proximity to smelly human beings), but I also don't want to pay business class, so fair enough ! I do wish they'd bump up the prices somewhat (20%?) and give us 20% wider seats though. The population isn't getting any skinnier - but I think airlines did try that for a while and people did not put their money where their mouth is, and we're back to cattle seats.

I wonder if the checked luggage racket will continue now that gas price is almost 1/2 of what it used to be. Bet it does !

I have to disagree with that. Even on international first US airlines suck. They do what they have to do, disappear and are annoyed if you request so much as a bottle of water. This doesn't happen on every flight of course but it is becoming the norm. UAL used to be my favorite airline. I now avoid them like the plague. Emirates, Lufthansa, ANA, Singapore, QANTAS and others blow US airlines off the map- superlative service and delicious food. My last flight to Tokyo on UAL was a joke, frozen sushi, no soy sauce, inedible entrees, one bottle of water per person and a crew that not only could have cared less but were almost arrogant in their rudeness. For this we pay thousands of dollars?

Jeff Smisak can bite me.

I retired from flying in '07. Have flown as a pax only 3 or 4 times since. Will drive (car or RV) rather than fly, no matter what. Between the bedbugs in the hotels, cargo holds, and overhead bins, I am done.

Deadheading in uniform east coast to home on AA, using offline pass, yes, long before 9/11.

Am at the big desk in DFW, needed to get a new pass, having missed the connection. Am in line behind a very pissed off guy. Bent my ear, very loudly, about how bad AA is, and venting about being AA Platinum, and still being screwed, etc. I smiled politely, but did not respond.

He got to be first in line, and I could see the 3 or 4 agents stalling their cutomer so as not to get this guy. He finally gets to the agent closest to us, and immediately goes off on her. She finally gets to what he wants, having missed his connection too. She smiles the entire time and patiently explains to him his options. He finally picks one, after telling everyone within earshot how much he makes per minute, and how much she has cost him today, blah, blah, blah. She gives him his tickets, bag claims, and points him to his gate to continue to Miami. He blasts off, still broadcasting his displeasure. I swear, everyone sighed relief.

I was next in line, and was greeted with "Hello Captain, How can I help you?" I smiled, asked for the next non-rev seat to LAX and said I was so astonished that she had held her tongue with that last guy. As she handed me my paperwork, she said she had a way of dealing with 'those types'.... Of ourse, I asked, and she leaned a little closer over the counter said.. 'He is going to Miami, his bags are going to Cleveland'.

I love it thank you.

I fly four times a month exclusively on Delta and Alaska Airlines and can say I have never had a bad experience with customer service, passengers or scheduling issues. I have had the occasional delay due to mechanical and have had to wait in the plane for a gate to open up due to arriving too early but for me this is a non issue. I pay for my flights myself and they are not a tax write-off so for me I go for whoever is less expensive. I don't require that I am pampered in flight and frankly I'm usually too busy trying to get some sleep to worry about service. I'm kind of surprised that so many have had bad experiences.

Thanks for the words of encouragement!!!

I was flying Allegiant Air from LAX-Billings, Montana every month up until a couple years ago. The price was ridiculously cheap - sometimes 29 cents each way, plus taxes! But, the planes and overall experience was terrible. For all my other travel, both domestically and internationally, I was flying whoever was cheapest. This approach saves you money, but the overall experience is very bad. I hated getting stuck in airports for multiple hour layovers. I hated standing in line with a hundred people trying to rebook when things went upside down. I hated being treated like cattle by GAs and FAs. I hated sitting in the back of the plane by the bathrooms. It really was terrible!

Back in 2013, I decided to make a run for Delta Diamond, their highest elite level. I did that, and actually became a "triple Diamond", which means I really don't have to fly Delta for 3 more years, but I will still be Diamond.

I cannot say enough good things about how Delta treats their Diamonds. Forget Silver, Gold or Platinum. You HAVE to be Diamond. They will do anything for you. I am now the Boss! Other things that screw with other passengers no longer affect me. I really like that.

I have all the perks: TSA Precheck, Global Entry, VIP lounge access wherever I go, Sky Priority lines everywhere. Its awesome!

My wife and I banked 1.7 million miles last year with Delta, so this year, we get to fly round-the-world 5 times in Business Elite for FREE. This is what I've been doing all my flying for, and I'm going to really enjoy the benefits. For domestic travel, as a Diamond, I am upgraded to first class about 90% of the time.

Its also possible to get free OpUps to Business Elite on oversold international flights. You just have to try and do your flying on often-oversold flights to increase your chances.

Now for the bad news: Unless you're buying high $$$ tickets on Delta, this game is over as of Dec 31, 2014. But, American is still doing it, so if you want to get to American Executive Platinum level, you can still do it. You'll get all the perks, and really low cost round-the-world award trips to spend your miles on.

Having the partner credit cards that earn you miles and status with your spending is also critical. I spend around $100K a year on my AMEX Delta cards, so I earn a lot there, too.

I guess the bottom line is that if you're not loyal to any airline, and don't make the effort, you're always going to be kettle, unless you spend the big $$$ on business seats. Picking an airline, like AA, then going for top status brings you huge payoffs.

^ Yup. Back in my very frequent days, plus triple miles plus loyalty credit cards I amassed enough miles to be Lifetime Platinum. Not as good as Exec Plat (or whatever unpublished is above that), but pretty good - much better seat selection, better phone number to call for help, front of the line for cancelled flights, etc.

Take the experience of flying a lot of miles, and when I fly SWA (which is frequent for west coast travel), I know enough to get ahead of trouble. Checking on flight delays on earlier flights/same airport or airport in the sequence means I get moved to a better alternative before they finally announce you are screwed.

Plus I love to fly as mentioned before...

Thanks for the explanation. I have invested SO much time and money into being loyal to Delta. I would be really dismayed if I knew the staff thought I was an idiot PITA and treated me as such. I don't get that feeling at all from Delta staff. They have great attitudes. I do see see some questionable behavior from time to time, but it is negligible. The people flying up front, especially, are very well behaved.

I can only assume Scott has had a couple of bad days flying and is just venting a bit. I know he really loves his passengers and does the best he can to give them an enjoyable flight :)

Don, I share your love of flying. LOVE the feeling of boarding a plane and going through all the motions. Just cannot believe I can be flying thru the air at 600mph, 7 miles above the ground, while sipping a nice glass of wine :)

So one a more pedestrian level...

I once had Gold status with US Airways. 10 years later (budget cuts and all) I am not even a Silver member... but then I only travel 3x a year now.

I have to say. San Diego Airport has majorly upgraded. Peets Coffee has replaced Starbucks. The TSA line - no more shoes off, computer out, belt off...total breeze. Enough for me to enjoy my $2.10 small Peets coffee.

Richard, well I can dream right :)