I hate flying

[wdfifteen]

It just gets worse every time I fly. And U.S. Air well and truly SUCKS!!
Flew from Charlotte, NC to Washington and then home. I was near the back on a CRJ-200 on the first leg. A guy was having trouble getting something in the overhead bin. Cabin crew member said, "You'll have to find a place up front for it" and stood back and watched him struggle through the isle full of people, opening every bin until he found some room. Remember when the crew was actually helpful? Remember when they and said things like, "Let me find a place for that for you"?
Second leg started from Dulles. They had to bus us to our plane - another CRJ-200. They left the bus doors open while 40 folks or so got aboard, and the bus driver struck up a conversation with the driver of the bus behind us and ignored us. It was 12 degrees F outside. Someone got off and yelled at him to close the doors, so he did, and turned the heater up on high. In 10 minutes it was hot, hot, roasting in the bus and no one could get the doors open. One guy had the emergency hammer out and was about to bust the glass when a bus driver saw him and opened the door and started yelling at him. We passengers were so pissed off at him that the driver was fearing for his life in about .05 seconds. One of the people on board was a U.S. Air cockpit crew and he got off and chewed the driver a new azzhole, talking about "our" responsibility to pay attention to and care for "our" passengers.
Got on the plane and there were half a dozen empty seats in the mid-back area. We sat. And sat. And sat while the pilot and cabin attendant looked at papers and talked. Finally the cabin lady called the front row of passengers to attention and said one of them was going to have to move to the back to balance the airplane. All four of them just stared at her. I kind of don't blame them, because by now we were all thinking, "Really? Something ELSE you can't do right?" They just stared and eventually the cabin lady said, "Either one of you moves back or the plane stays here." The smallest (least effective) guy of the bunch volunteered to move and the passengers applauded and cheered him. Someone threw a wadded napkin at one of the three douches. We finally took off.
I've been in some small airports in some fairly small third world countries that were run better than U.S. Air's operation. Did I mention - U.S. Air SUCKS!!!

[matt f]

We call them " US Scare."

[wayner]

I find an 8 hour drive is worth it because an hour and a half flight works out to that these days with all the aggravation and delays...

[flatbutt]

So a CRJs stability can really be impacted by passenger distribution? huh

[cantdrv55]

I left two high paying sales positions due to too much air travel. The last one was just regional travel - from SF Bay Area to Oregon. Flying into Central or Southern Oregon every other week got old. It was one day wasted each way because of limited flight schedules and inevitable delays.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by cantdrv55

I left two high paying sales positions due to too much air travel. The last one was just regional travel - from SF Bay Area to Oregon. Flying into Central or Southern Oregon every other week got old. It was one day wasted each way because of limited flight schedules and inevitable delays.

I gave up flying to Pittsburgh from Newark in favor of driving the route. I could drive it in 7 hours while flying took up to 4 hours door to door with all of the BS thrown in. Driving was much mo' better.

[BE911SC]

America wanted "low cost" air travel and America got it. In large part that "low cost" came out of the employees pockets so you'll understand if the employees aren't always delighted to help you with your huge carry-on bag that you're trying to get around the baggage fee by forcing it into an overhead bin even if it kills everyone in the cabin. Deal with that every day and you'll understand why cabin crews aren't always eager to accommodate you with a smile on their face and limitless patience.

Your "low cost" ticket does not entitle you to "First Class" treatment. You gotta' pay for that, just like someone has to pay you more than a certain amount to do your job.

And in an open plea to the traveling public, do try to put something on before leaving for the airport. Your T-shirt and flip-flops may be intended to indicate your casual, carefree, laid-back sun and surf lifestyle but no one cares. Google the word "deodorant" and go buy some. Learn how to shave and comb your hair. Maybe then that one cute stew you're eyeing will pay attention to you. She sees slobs all day, every day so clean yourself up, smile and be polite (and gate-check your huge duffle bag) and maybe it'll pay off.

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

So a CRJs stability can really be impacted by passenger distribution? huh

Next time you're on one (smaller regional airplane) ask five other people to get up with you, in flight, and walk to the front of the cabin. Stand there for a minute and then walk to the aft part of the cabin, wait a minute and then go forward again. Repeat until the pilot comes on the PA and says sit down or I'll land and kick you off.

[Laneco]

Originally Posted by cantdrv55

I left two high paying sales positions due to too much air travel. The last one was just regional travel - from SF Bay Area to Oregon. Flying into Central or Southern Oregon every other week got old. It was one day wasted each way because of limited flight schedules and inevitable delays.

I left one for the same reason... Currently, I've got a customer who really likes me to do work in either remote areas (e.g. oilfields) or somewhere in the eastern time zone. I started charging them a little for travel time. They balked because I would charge a total of 4 to 6 hours of travel. The problem from my standpoint is that it would take an entire DAY to get there and another entire DAY to get back. So if it is one day of actual paid work, I take 3 days out of my work-week to do it and unless I charged something for my travel, it was just not financial viable for me. We reached an equitable compromise.

The regional jets - absolutely have to shift passengers around. Happens all of the time. Unless the flight is stuffed absolutely full because they have cancelled the two previous ones... Which is often the case.

If the drive is less than about 6 or 7 hours, I just drive. The whole get up at 3am to get to the airport at 4:30, to leave at 5:50 and spend the rest of the day screwing around with another flight, and another rental car agency, etc., is just not worth it. Its actually faster to drive.

And I will stop and pee anytime I feel like!

angela

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

So a CRJs stability can really be impacted by passenger distribution? huh

Oh yeah. I flew Ohio to Denver last month and there was a strong headwind. They ask a passenger to get off (threw them off, actually) so they could put an extra 180 pounds of fuel on board. Told us it would take an extra 20 minutes flight time. I'm not real comfy with them cutting it that close. "Just fill it up - I'll loan you the $$ for the extra gas, just get me there."

[biosurfer1]

I heard a funny saying regarding US air travel:

Fast, on time, or caring...choose 1

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by BE911SC

America wanted "low cost" air travel and America got it. In large part that "low cost" came out of the employees pockets so you'll understand if the employees aren't always delighted to help you with your huge carry-on bag that you're trying to get around the baggage fee by forcing it into an overhead bin even if it kills everyone in the cabin. Deal with that every day and you'll understand why cabin crews aren't always eager to accommodate you with a smile on their face and limitless patience.

Your "low cost" ticket does not entitle you to "First Class" treatment. You gotta' pay for that, just like someone has to pay you more than a certain amount to do your job.

And in an open plea to the traveling public, do try to put something on before leaving for the airport. Your T-shirt and flip-flops may be intended to indicate your casual, carefree, laid-back sun and surf lifestyle but no one cares. Google the word "deodorant" and go buy some. Learn how to shave and comb your hair. Maybe then that one cute stew you're eyeing will pay attention to you. She sees slobs all day, every day so clean yourself up, smile and be polite (and gate-check your huge duffle bag) and maybe it'll pay off.

Exactly. We got what we wanted. Cheap air travel. Everybody that buys a ticket feels entitled. It is now just bus travel with wings. What kind of service do you get on a bus?

As I write this I am at LAS airport with a cancelled flight . . .

Ian

[recycled sixtie]

Driving from Edmonton to Victoria BC last holiday season took about 12 hours of driving plus an 1.5 hours on a ferry. Price of an airline ticket return was about $550 each round trip and would take 1hour 40 minutes.

Taking into consideration gas, hotel one way but drove back direct I found the whole trip more relaxing plus I had my vehicle when I got there.

Anything to avoid the line ups in an airport around the Xmas season. Would have been ahead $$$ if I had not tried to move a parkade wall with my suv.....

Still like the drive.
Guy

[450knotOffice]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Oh yeah. I flew Ohio to Denver last month and there was a strong headwind. They ask a passenger to get off (threw them off, actually) so they could put an extra 180 pounds of fuel on board. Told us it would take an extra 20 minutes flight time. I'm not real comfy with them cutting it that close. "Just fill it up - I'll loan you the $$ for the extra gas, just get me there."

They aren't actually cutting it as close as you believe. There are FAA rules for minimum fuel that must be carried. The absolute minimum Reserve fuel that must be on any airline flight is 45 minutes worth of fuel projected to be on the jet at anticipated touchdown time, taking into account all variables that can affect the flight time for that given flight. No pilot or dispatcher I know will be comfortable with only 45 minutes worth of extra fuel however, so more is typically added as a buffer.

Now, throw in forecast and/or actual bad weather at the destination airport, and the flight will need to have a viable alternate airport added to the flight plan - and occasionally TWO alternates, if the first alternate planned is considered slightly marginal. Obviously that will require even more fuel - oftentimes a LOT more fuel.

Throw in some extra fuel for possible holding delays enroute, and the fuel load goes up even more.


Anyway, realize that there is no "cutting it close" on an airline flight with regard to fuel.

Now, on the other hand, if an airline were to "fill it up" on every flight, yes the flight would arrive with LOTS of excess fuel, however, quite possibly 1/3 of the passengers would have to be left behind due to weight constraints - usually maximum certificated landing weight. That certainly would NOT make those passengers happy.

As for shifting passengers, yes, believe it or not, a 50,000 pound jet's BALANCE can be thrown out of the acceptable range through the placement of just one or two 180 pound passengers. Will it crash? Almost certainly not. However, flight stability and pitch authority margins will be compromised - even if only a little. Every aircraft has a Center of Gravity range that allows acceptable flight characteristics. It's called a CG envelope. If the CG is out of the envelope, no matter how close it may be, it's out of the envelope and must be corrected. Oftentimes, that will only require one or two passengers to be shifted for or aft.

Large jetliners have these very same issues, however - due to the fact that the larger jets all store their cargo under the passenger cabin in long compartments - cargo will get shifted fore or aft by ramp personnel if a weight and balance issue arises. This is transparent to the passengers, of course. A smaller Regional Jet usually has most of its cargo loaded in a cargo hold that is not under but AFT of the passenger cabin, where it has a great effect on CG. Since there is nowhere else to shift cargo to, the only other way to shift CG is by moving one or two passengers.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by cantdrv55

I left two high paying sales positions due to too much air travel. The last one was just regional travel - from SF Bay Area to Oregon. Flying into Central or Southern Oregon every other week got old. It was one day wasted each way because of limited flight schedules and inevitable delays.

My Dad moved from Bend, Ore for that exact reason: He called it, "Panic in a Can" flying out of Redmond to the big airports when he traveled on business.

I live two hours from all the major airports in the DC area, so my drive window is right around an 8/9 hour drive or the train.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Exactly. We got what we wanted. Cheap air travel.

BS.
"We" didn't say, "We want to be treated like cattle as long as it's cheap." On the airlines that offer Economy Plus ( a little more space for a few more dollars) the seats are always sold out. (Let's not talk about my "economy plus" seat that was in front of the frikking door. It didn't have extra leg room because they provided it for me, it was the same seat in front of the door that they sold as coach untll they realized they could pass it off as "special" and charge more). I always travel "business class" when I can get it, but the seats are limited and on some regional flights there is no such thing. Airline employees exhibit such a level of obvious disinterest in their jobs that I worry that the jobs that aren't so obvious - those that involve safety - are being ignored to an equal extent. It is very concerning to me. U.S. airlines have lowered their standards to the point that I'm expecting a disaster any day. I just hope I'm not a part of it.

[Shifter]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

U.S. airlines have lowered their standards to the point that I'm expecting a disaster any day. I just hope I'm not a part of it.

How about you hop on a Keystone flight? I still think U.S. airlines are a bit safer... I will walk rather than take a Keystone flight.

[island911]

hmmm... no moaning the actual flying.

Sound like you don't like crappy customer service.

Who does?

[billybek]

We were in the Boston area for Christmas and had an interesting time getting to Boston and home again.
On the way there, we cleared American customs in Calgary to find that the aircraft we would be flying on would be 3 hours late due to fog the previous day in San Fran. Checked on the way to the airport, no delays reported.... Oh well, stuff happpens.
On the way home, we were re routed through O'hare but didn't know that until we reached the airport. We had to wait for almost 6 hours in Logan for our rescheduled flight.
On the positive side the woman at the check in desk for United was fantastic. She took our bags early and gave us lunch vouchers.
On the not so positive side, as we were getting ready to push back there was an announcement that I didn't hear (getting old and my hearing has never been good) that because the flight was full, that you couldn't store your jackets in the overhead bins! I was quite taken aback when the male flight attendant asked who owned the three jackets in the overhead and very rudely dumped them in my lap! That is what overhead bins are for, jackets and briefcases and the like not your fricking luggage!
Check your bags next time you cheap f%#ks.... I did!
Next time I am going to bring one of those cheap light nylon bag/backpack things to stuff all our winter jackets into.
The return trip ended up being a 19 hour day from door to door.....
Ok, rant over.....

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Exactly. We got what we wanted. Cheap air travel. Everybody that buys a ticket feels entitled. It is now just bus travel with wings. What kind of service do you get on a bus?

You get space to move around. Space to store your stuff. As far as i know there is no law that allows the bus co. to lock you in the bus and make you sit on the tarmack for 3 hours before starting your journey (while calling your departure "on time") Except for the actual travel time bus travel has it all over air travel.
Imagine if we had a viable rail system for 500 mile trips.