How do folks end up converted to whackos, zealots and extremists?
 

I've wondered this a little in the past, but these days it seems to be coming up more and more for obvious reasons.

How do seemingly normal folks get converted into whackos?

Especially, recently with the IS stuff, people from all over the world seem to be converting to IS and traveling to Syria to fight or in some cases, fighting on their home turf. Yes, in most cases, these folks have been Muslims (though not particularly extreme, and in many cases, relatively lax), but not in every case.

But, besides the folks that are running off to hang with IS, what about the people that followed and still follow Manson?

I just don't understand how these folks get roped in and changed so completely.

I find myself thinking "there's no way, that could never happen to me." But then I bet some of these other folks would have said the same. (of course, in my case, it's true ;))

French Muslim converts and dies in Syria
American convert to Islam is killed fighting in Syria, U.S. official says - The Washington Post
British convert to Islam vows to fight to the death on Syrian rebel front line - Telegraph
Damian Clairmont killed in Syria: Canadian man died in fighting near Aleppo | National Post

This one seems especially odd, but she may have been a nutter before.
Kent benefits mother Sally Jones is now jihadi in Syria | Daily Mail Online
Nearly as odd. Apparently, the old coot's still got it (he's 80 now)
Charles Manson gets license to marry 26-year-old | New York Post
An article that is a bit related, but I don't think it's exactly the same phenomenon that I'm talking about. It's more the mob mentality.

Deindividuation « You Are Not So Smart

They find something to hate then are found by others who hate the same thing.

I'm thinking that in many cases, they feel like they don't belong to a group and want to and find a group that's happy to have new cannon fodder and knows how to recruit the weak.

Rebel without a cause.

Dying for something to believe in.

Fairly certain one that commits to such a role has forgone any fiduciary duty.

Wrong forum. Spiritual issue..

This is not about religion; it's more about personality or the characteristics of the person that allow them to be sucked in by extremists and whackos.

Insecurity and intolerance.

And there's plenty of that in PARF, where this belongs.

There was this Humanities class when I was in my undergrad called "Man's Search for Meaning."

IMO extremism, zealotry, etc. is as if someone signed up for "Man's search for Meaning", and then bought the Cliff's Notes for the test, skipped studying, and then just went straight to test day without understanding the context of any of it.

In the case about Manson and his new wife... There is a very small percentage of women world wide who are attracted to very dangerous men.
(much less than .01% but world wide that's equates to many thousands)
The worse these men are the more attractive they are to these women. It's not uncommon to find men on death row with a fan base getting lots of mail from women with offers of marriage.

IMO... The religious cases are about people wanting to be part of something "important". (not in all cases obviously)

Often in our modern society people become disjointed and lost. They lack purpose and are generally unhappy.
Converting to Islam and going off to join the fight is very appealing to some of them. Again it's a small percentage of people who affected like this.

With over 7 billion people world wide this phenomenon is really is about numbers.

Think about this...

There are about 1.57 billion Muslims in the world. Lets be conservative and agree .01% are extreme radicals. That equals 157,000.

157,000 is a lot to deal with.

How do folks end up converted to whackos, zealots and extremists?
 

Organized reliigion will always be there to prey upon weak-minded fools who need a crutch to cope with the harsh realities of life. It's expert at extracting their loyalty, money and in many cases, their lives.

Yup. People with nothing, looking for something to believe in.

So am I weak minded Jeff? Incapable of dealing with the harsh reality of life? Your bitter broad brushing is starting to make a bit of a mess......

It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with acceptance. It is also both a push and a pull. When I don't fit in and feel alienated, I am pushed towards more fringe elements. The fringe elements are always recruiting (the recent French terror attacks are already being used for recruiting) pulling the disenfranchised towards their cause. The more someone feels alienated, the more potential there is for them to want to blame the other party or seek revenge. The more I feel accepted, the more apt I am to align my beliefs and actions with the accepting party, even to the point of committing heinous acts. This happens every day in America and it is the behavior gangs count on for membership.

Cult like brainwashing...
Easier to do with people who are lost and searching for answers.

relative deprivation
 

relative deprivation

It starts with "the perception of an unfair disparity between their own situation and that of others in their peer group"

For example: the woman might be quite attractive herself, but she feels that its unfair (& she's deprived) that other girls are prettier. The guy might be well off compared to the wider community, but feels that its unfair (& he's deprived) that others like him are richer.

People who are overtaken by deprivation anxiety in situations like these are fair game for organisations that can quickly spot the symptoms.

If they are lucky they will be 'found' by a reasonably harmless support group like a mainstream religion that may provide benign comfort & support . If you are unlucky you will 'found' by a cult or a sect that will exploit you for everything you have and leave you far worse.

No however those who are definitely are disproportionately attracted to it. Always have been.

What happens in the mind of a solo wack-job to make them go off? Take the guy who shot up a theater in Co. a couple of years ago, I don't get it.
Now I completely understand the kind of rage that will make a person o after a single person, because they believe that person has done them wrong, but I do not get taking out a bunch of people unrelated to a situation.
Or the kid who shot, stabbed, and ran over a bunch in Ca. not too long ago, because he couldn't get laid.
You never heard of these things fifty years ago but something in society is saying to a weak mind that this type of reaction to a situation is okay, is it in the water?

The "solo wack-job" is a more recent phenomenon. There's something about the modern world that affects some individuals in this way. They even have them in Russia and China but you'd never heard about it.

I wouldn't even try to understand why they do what they do. That's what makes them insane.
For instance the guy in the theater may have thought he was the Joker for real and was doing what the Joker does.
Cray to us normal folk but that's just as likely as any other scenario.

A few years ago a local patient of a mental hospital killed a doctor. (he stabbed him with a kitchen knife which he had stolen earlier that day)

When asked why, he answered. I though he was stealing my blood and I can't have that. :confused:

underlying fulfilment issues + boredom + internet

Some people just want purpose, they want to feel like they matter and they want to stand for something. Most of those types are harmless but then there are those that are not...

Then there are those that have a mental illness that doesn't unfold until there is an opportunity. Thats when things get dicy...

I think there is a lot of merit in this theory. It is SOOOOOOOooooooooooo easy in the human mind to go from being content with one's life to angry with everyone for depriving one of that most "richly deserved".

I have watched jealousy make incredibly ugly specimens out of more than several humans........

:eek:

Too much free time.

.

This, humans are pack animals, it only seems complicated. The lone wolves are generally fame whores. There is the odd person like Mr Whitman who gets a brain tumor, but that is literally like a one in a million deal, more like one in ten or twenty million, thankfully.

Organized atheism will always be there to prey upon weak-minded fools who need to be angry and attack people who are strong in their religious beliefs. It's expert at extracting their loyalty, money and in many cases, their final eternal destiny.

Crazy to begin with and then put attention whore on top of some serious personality issues.

Really? Please provide some examples of atheist attacking people to further the cause of atheism.

Comparatively , see how many examples you can find of religious extremist.

Now don't get your undies in a wad snb. I was just making a parody of PoP's post #11 to voice a disagreement. If you want to attack religion take it to PARF.

How do folks end up converted to whackos, zealots and extremists?
 

Doesn't bother me. I'm agnostic, not atheist per se. I think the evidence shows that there are things we don't understand but it also suggests that the notion of an anthropomorphized giant invisible sky fairy with a zombie son obsessed with death, suffering and what human beings do with their genitals is pretty ridiculous. I find any discussion of religion (or passionate anti-religion / militant atheism) to be a waste of time. It just doesn't matter, evidence suggests that when we die we just die. That's it. Maybe some people have a hard time coping with that. I don't. I think it underscores why our time here is so valuable and why we should spend it on worthwhile things as much as we can. Believe whatever you want just leave me the hell out of it.

I find people unwilling to discuss their beliefs are not particularly secure in them. I have atheist/agnostic friends, and have had some excellent intelligent discussions on the topic. If your beliefs don't hold up to questioning, they aren't very strongly held....

Believe whatever you want but I don't plan on going to Hell.
(Disclaimer: another play on words parody to show disagreement with PoP's PARFy statement).

I agree. I am very confident in my convictions and I have solid answers but they aren't accepted by those that disagree with me. We shouldn't consider other people's lack of approval to measure the validity of our beliefs.

I think I understand the spirit of the statement below but would add that there are LOTS of beliefs which people hold very tightly (almost all of these seem to be religious beliefs) and yet the foundations of those beliefs don't stand up very well to questioning.

Perpetual victims.

I have known a few people that seem to always be at someones mercy claiming victim status. Like everything in their life is crap and that's because someone has taken advantage of them.
On and on it goes. There's never any light at the end of the tunnel and these people are ripe for the picking by some religious nutter with an agenda.

One lady in particular has detailed her long and drawn out rape case on Facebook. She was raped as a teen and now at 40 something it's till ongoing on if you can believe that.

I'm sympathetic but I have to ask why did it take her 20+ years to do anything about it?
........... And you guessed it. A few years ago she joined the local branch of the Church of Scientology and shortly after that made the complaint to the police.
Meanwhile the guy that did it is in his late 70s.

I guess better late than never but the fact that she posted all of this stuff on Facebook tell me she's not all there.

No need to worry. You won't. Hell doesn't exist. It's a manmade construct. You're good.

Panties have been unwaddedSmileWavy

No attack on religion from me, just fed up with people who don't tolerate other people's rights to believe / or not.

Actually being an atheist/agnostic is also a form of belief, because everybody that knows the truth is dead.:p

Hang out with Sammy and perhaps pee on his lawn?

That's very true and will likely remain so for a long time to come...unless reincarnation really happens...but I can't believe that!!:D

Different theory.

1.2 Billion Muslims, if 0.1% can be easily influenced isn't that 12 million easily recruited people?

Having said that, there is a FOX (yes FOX) news contributor I think her name is Bridgette Gabriel who has made an interesting point that while most Muslims aren't into the actual violence jihad thing, about half of Muslims, in her opinion, aren't opposed to it, if someone else does it.

Sounds like BS? show me the droves of Muslim leaders lining up to decry this crap. Yes a few showed up in Paris this week, but not much until then. How many non-muslims and muslims of a different sect have been slaughtered in the last few weeks in Africa by other muslims, 10,000 or more? In just a few weeks? Little or no MSM, or anyone else, on that side of the coin.

In the true atmosphere of PARF, you can't let someone just believe what they want. You INSIST on stating they are wrong. Whatever. :rolleyes: