Roofing Accident / Property Damage Q?

[Scuba Steve]

I'm interested in some basic advice, and whether I'm completely screwing up a situation.

I own a rental house and I've been planning on replacing the roof in between tenants because it's getting old. It doesn't leak and there were no structural issues of any kind in the attic noted by the inspector when I bought it 2 1/2 years ago or by anyone doing work in there or up above. It seemed otherwise healthy and happy. Or it did until yesterday.

I got a phone call about an accident that happened at the end of loading all the materials onto the roof. No injuries at least, but the roof collapsed. I have no idea of the distribution of the load or the he said/they said between the roofer and material provider, whether they were ready for it or any of that. Damage is pretty bad beyond the obvious with the roof, the second floor wall on one side of the house bowed out 1', the chimney broke off in the attic space and the opposite side wall is out an inch or so. The flooring in a 2nd floor bedroom also buckled, plaster cracked and whatnot. I'm not a civil engineer so this is just what I notice.

The house is also considered historic so this will be "fun." The material provider's insurance sent a civil engineer out already but I know nothing of their report or whether one is even made at this point. I know a builder/civil engineer and we are going to look tomorrow. No clue what the roofing company is up to with their insurance. My homeowner's insurance does not cover damage by contractor so they're not involved.

I walked around with everyone and we saw no insect damage or rot and there have been no signs of any defects up there so I doubt this will fall back on me. At this point I'm thinking about how not to get screwed. An attorney on my side would be a wise move but don't know what kind. Maybe construction? Beyond that and going in with an engineer of my own to come up with a plan to stabilize and then another to repair the damage I'm at a loss for how to proceed.

[Arizona_928]

where on the roof were they loading the roofing material?

[Scuba Steve]

That's a good question. To me it looks like they loaded all of it above the chimney. The city inspector said the weight was 3,700 lbs. Not sure of its distribution but from my ground level picture it does not seem very distributed. My guess is it was moved up there all at once by machine instead of multiple drops or carried by ladder as needed.

I haven't seen from above and roofers tarped it to prevent rain damage. They borrowed a cherry picker and kept looking around the chimney area, but at the time it was leaning over the edge of the roof and they were concerned about it falling onto the sidewalk. The chimney runs up through the second floor between two bedroom closets and continues straight on up maybe 4-6' from the roofline. No defects were ever noted with that either.

[CurtEgerer]

Steve, I've investigated many of these type failures over the years. One resulted in the total collapse of a barn. The homeowner left for work in the morning as the supplier was stacking shingles along the peak with a conveyor. When she got home that afternoon, there was just a big pile of debris where the barn once stood In other cases, the tops of the walls are pushed out a few inches, creating instant 'skylights' along the tops of the walls. In metal plate-connected truss roofs, it often causes the metal plates to pop loose and nobody ever knows until years later when a home inspector finds them or a snow load collapses the roof.

So if the bundles of shingles were all stacked up along the peak of your roof, they took a huge gamble at your expense (hopefully, you took photos). The bundles must be spread out individually over the entire slope of the roof to simulate a uniform load. Most roof structures are not designed for a concentrated load along the top. Sometimes roofers get lucky and nothing happens.

The reason they stack them along the peak is simple: it makes it much easier to lay the shingles with nothing in the way.

[mossguy]

Was roof girl involved with this in any way?

[Scuba Steve]

This would have scared off even her.

Thabks, skylights are the perfect way to describe what it looks like. I saw the nails at the end of the ceiling joists showing where the top plate was pushed outward. It would not surprise me if both exterior walls on the second floor have to be rebuilt along with every ceiling joist, just to start. No clue what buckled the flooring except that something must have shifted.

I was at work when this happened but can't imagine that anyone wanted to stay up there long enough to unload the roof. My guess is the stuff was left alone and they got off ASAP. There are two attic access points but it would take a 2 story ladder to get on the roof. I think the roofing company and their supplier will be hashing this one out. The supplier did the loading.

Maybe the engineer tomorrow will see something. At some point I can share pictures but am still a bit reluctant right now.

[ledhedsymbols]

Good plan, but this is going to be one for the insurance companies to fight over. The roofer and the supplier are insured, and it sounds like you used licensed bonded labor, which is VERY smart. You may need legal help with this one. It's a shame, but I suspect that the blame game will start. Just hope you get made whole without too much trouble. On the BIG plus side, it sounds like a property damage incident only. Thank goodness some dude trying to make a living to support his family wasn't hurt or killed.

[CurtEgerer]

I'm surprised your homeowner's insurance won't cover this? My experience here in Michigan is it would be covered and then your insurance company subrogates against the contractor/supplier insurance companies to recoup their money.

I'd ask the contractor if he would consider parking a truck up on the peak of your roof without consulting a structural engineer first. Because that's about the same amount of weight. Of course, if one disassembled the truck into small pieces and spread those over the entire surface of the roof, there would be no problem.

[dad911]

In the old days, this probably wouldn't have happened. Delivery would have been dropped on the ground, and the roofers brought up shingles with a power ladder, a few bundles at a time.

New boom trucks will reach out 50', and bring up whole pallets at a time.

It could be a pissing contest.... Did operator hit roof, roofer stack too much weight in one spot, or a structural failure, causing a chain reaction?

[A930Rocket]

We load shingles on every house spread out on the ridge. Maybe 3-4 bundles in a stack.

Of course, this is new construction.

[9dreizig]

Just ran this by the GF who ran a roofing company for 30 years.. Her first question was how many roofs have been stacked on each other over the years ? That can add huge weight.

[Scuba Steve]

There was one. Old roofs were removed courtesy of hurricane Hugo.

edit: I verified, insurance is for stated hazards only. I need to re-shop insurance providers once this is all wrapped up.

I DIY a ton of things, but if someone is coming over to handle a job I can't do I always make sure they're licensed and insured. For saving a few bucks there's too much at stake if something happens. Some people I know think that's wasting money but I disagree.

Here's what it looks like from across the street. The white material blowing up is plastic sheeting. The small box that's on the right is some material that's smaller than shingles - all of those + tar paper and whatever else must be in the low area because I remember seeing none from down here.

[dad911]

Ouch. I just went back and re-read the op. Buckled flooring and blown out walls. Likely broke studs, floor joists and sheathing. Do you know if the house was balloon framed?

Someone owes you a house.

[rusnak]

That house is in trouble. I'd get a PI attorney. This is a tort case.

[Arizona_928]

Do the bundles of singles follow the ridge behind the tree?can't really tell. Also it looks like the siding is buckled!

[cpconst]

Looks Luke a 3/12 pitch roof from the pictures. 3700 lbs in one place on a 3/12 is like parking a new 991 with four passengers in it on your roof but in less surface area. The house looks very old and if the exterior walls are bowed out I'd say its a tear down. You need to start looking for sugar if there is any lemonade in your future. I know it's a bad word but you may want to lawyer up.

[GWN7]

Better Call Saul. Someone is buying you a house.

Everything can be fixed, but at what cost? At some point it's cheaper to tear it down and rebuild new.

It looks like where the second floor attaches the siding is pushed away. As mentioned it appears to be balloon construction which would account for the siding being pushed out.

[dyount]

Looks to be balloon framed walls and overloaded point load of too many bundles around the chimney.
THIS is going to be expensive and not end for a long time. Everyone is going to be pointing fault fingers for sure.
A large portion of the 2nd floor will need to be opened up to pull the wall line back and with the amount of roof damage I'd look to replace the roof structure totally at this point. It'll cost more to fix the stick framing than replace.
Other issue is long term loss of rental income on your end as well.

I'd point my fault at the roofing contractor who overloaded at point loads. As well, if they would of had the roof stripped and papered could of dropped shingles across the entire roof and not had a problem at all.

[Scuba Steve]

It is most likely balloon framing from what I've seen - according to the national register the place was built about 1920. The siding is pushed out along with the interior walls on the upper floor. It may be on the lower floor as well; the plaster could have stayed while the wall moved. The ceiling upstairs angles downward from 0-18" since some ceiling joists have nothing to hang on to. Their nails point outward in the direction the wall went.

I doubt the city would allow a demolition permit, a place just up the block was taken down to hardly more than a facade to repair it and bring it back to commercial use.

A neighbor saw what happened - in his words a forklift truck had a big pallet they put on the roof, then he heard a lot of yelling and noises and the forklift went back up to grab the load. He said the pallet was broken when they got it back down (couldn't get it right because of the angle it was now positioned at?) and they got it back on the truck as best as they could and got out of there fast.

I have the name of a reputable builder who does work downtown and an established construction attorney. Monday will be fun. In the meantime it's a ton of stress. It's the perfect way to destroy a weekend.

[Bugsinrugs]

Pray for dry weather.