Are EVs really worse on the Enviroment? - Page 3

john70t · 02-15-2015, 06:03 PM

Why not a 240mpg diesel hybrid?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_XL1

afterburn 549 · 02-15-2015, 06:57 PM

3 post in and nothing to do with Porsche.....The drawing card was?

slodave · slodave's Garage

This is the "Off Topic" forum. Porsche doesn't need to be discussed here. As well, the forum caters to BMW, VW, Mercedes, Audi, Mini, Saab, Volvo...

afterburn 549 · 02-15-2015, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slodave

This is the "Off Topic" forum. Porsche doesn't need to be discussed here. As well, the forum caters to BMW, VW, Mercedes, Audi, Mini, Saab, Volvo...

I realize that, but there is a under tow going on here.
Why would someone pick Pelican Parts and drop dwn to E.Cars and carbon foot prints?

slodave · slodave's Garage

For the OP... Some EV cars are only good for city driving. The Tesla can be used as a touring car. I've posted my driving experiences with one. It's been driven up and down 2/3's of Cali without a problem. Even did a road trip to San Diego without charging it all the way. On the way back, I had 8 miles range left when I pulled I to San Juan Capistrano to charge it. I did have to stop in SJC on the way down as well, but during that trip, I never charged it to capacity.

And EV's are in their infancy, just like the gas "buggy" was 100 odd years ago. Those first engines were horribly messy, stinky, terrible gas mileage.

EDIT: My Tesla thoughts after driving one...

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by slodave

And EV's are in their infancy, just like the gas "buggy" was 100 odd years ago. Those first engines were horribly messy, stinky, terrible gas mileage.

Yes, and it was many decades before they approached the efficiency we enjoy now. EV development will most certainly proceed faster than the IC engine has.

airwrench · 02-16-2015, 05:59 PM

Alrighty - wow.

Wasn't trying to make a statement or threaten gas cars. Just a discussion topic. Looks like I hit some raw nerves.

I have owned 4 BMWs and 4 Minis and currently have a Mini (which seems to have inherited the good and bad points of BMW products). I guess for completeness as to the forum, I have also owned 2 VWs, and 1 Saab. I have worked on many Porsches, both as a hobby and as engineering on projects for Stuttgart.

I'm not sure any engineering facts are wanted here, but:

84MPG on diesel in terms of efficiency is 84 miles for 39kWh of energy (for Diesel #2, for B20 it's more like 37kWh).

My electric goes 100 miles on 24kWh. So the efficiency is .46kWh per mile diesel vs. .24kWh per mile electric.

And as others have stated, I've never gotten that kind of economy out of a modern turbo diesel - more like 50MPG from Germany's finest.

What I am curious about is that electric motors are so efficient that it may make sense to replace the transmission on a gas car with a electric motor. The IC engine could then be run at it's highest efficiency point into a generator. Kind of like why locomotives are diesel electric. With Audi race cars approaching this type of construction it may happen on a road car sooner rather than later. I understand the 2 motors in a Tesla P85D together barely weigh 200 lbs. The 6 speed transmission in my Cobra replica weighed 130lbs. and to be fair, you would have to throw in the driveshaft and part of the diff for a comparison.

Alright - I'm sorry I brought the subject up...

Carl

john70t · 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airwrench

What I am curious about is that electric motors are so efficient that it may make sense to replace the transmission on a gas car with a electric motor. The IC engine could then be run at it's highest efficiency point into a generator.

That makes perfectly good sense.

Then add super-capacitors between (in parallel and series with the deep chemical battery) and efficiency will be better maximized.

Other than loss of air/road/mechanical/heat/transition frictions, plus allowing for accessories draw, every drop of available fuel used will be savored to its fullest.
Not pissed away needlessly.

That is closer to the true goal of individual independence and self-sufficiency.

SilberUrS6 · 02-16-2015, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airwrench

Alrighty - wow.

Wasn't trying to make a statement or threaten gas cars. Just a discussion topic. Looks like I hit some raw nerves.

Alright - I'm sorry I brought the subject up...

Carl

Don't worry about it. Some folks will find offense or conspiracy in anything. And if it's not to be found, they'll make some up.

It's an interesting topic.