How important is church? Need your advice

[look 171]

I am working with this young couple who bought an old house and they are interested in two bathroom restoration as well as some other items that are absolutely necessary before they can move in. Some how they found me through a relative. I met up with them twice after hours in the freaking dark and we hit it off pretty well. I tried to schedule a meeting today, on Sunday because one of them works on Saturday so I am very understanding about client's work schedules. I wanted to take my kids out for a bike ride and feed the ducks around the lake due to the beautiful weather this time of the year so I tried to schedule this meeting in the morning. I got," We can't. Church, and we have to do some more church stuff after that, so best time would be after 2pm." They have been begging me to do this for them from the very beginning since they reviewed my design. I don't go to church and am not religious at all, so am I asking for too much? They want to go to church, hang out after but also want to move in because they are under the gun with their rental.

I found out Sunday is church day and it is very important to them apparently. Can they make it up some other time or miss a day? I made my decision over lunch this afternoon to not take the job due to their inability to be flexible with their leisure time. Plus, our plate is very full with projects. I will inform them tomorrow during regular hours. I have to make up some excuse(that's the easy part) but really want to tell them the truth. So for those of you who go to church every Sunday, is it something one must do or can it be done another time? I am just trying to understand what's going on so I will know next time.

[aigel]

Some churches make it practically mandatory through peer pressure if nothing else. And people get into it, where they can't miss it. I think you did the right thing - if they can't meet your schedule for whatever reason it isn't your problem. I would keep it neutral and tell them that you only have weekends left for attention and if their Sunday is booked where they can't meet on a regular basis this will lead to issues on the job.

G

[Gogar]

Church has nothing to do with it.

If you want the job, work in the schedule, set your price, and do the job.

If you don't want the job, don't do it. Or, do the stereotype GC move and bid the job at 200% and see if they bite.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Depends on what you believe I suppose. Some people find it nearly essential (I personally know people who consider it virtually mandatory to attend twice a week) whereas others (like me) don't attend at all - ever (I consider it a complete waste of time).

It's your life and you only get one. Don't let somebody else live it for you. If the clients aren't going to work with you and compromise a bit then that's their issue. Is there no other time you could carve out during the week?

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Church has nothing to do with it.

If you want the job, work in the schedule, set your price, and do the job.

If you don't want the job, don't do it. Or, do the stereotype GC move and bid the job at 200% and see if they bite.

I wouldn't play that game, just in case they bite and I will have to "do it". If they are like this now, there will be issues later. I am one of the most flexible contractors around. I met them twice without electricity in the evening. The most powerful flashlight can only go so far. Its not about the job, I just want to understand this whole church thing since I grew up not religious.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Depends on what you believe I suppose. Some people find it nearly essential (I personally know people who consider it virtually mandatory to attend twice a week) whereas others (like me) don't attend at all - ever (I consider it a complete waste of time).

It's your life and you only get one. Don't let somebody else live it for you. If the clients are going to work with you that's their issue. Is there no other time you could carve out during the week?

I am more then happy to met up during the week or any other time but they have to work and deal with nasty LA traffic. So we met in the dark before daylight savings came around today. If church and church related activities are more important then moving in, then I fulling understand. My thinking is there must be another contractor that attend their church, so maybe he will understand.

[winders]

This is crazy. Inability to be flexible with their leisure time? Who cares why they are busy on a certain day of the week until 2PM. They are. That doesn't make them inflexible or problematic. They just happen to have a standing commitment on Sunday and aren't available until 2PM. If you can't deal with that, you are the one with the problem. You don't need to understand anything about the "church thing".

Issues later because they are like what now? Have a commitment? Wow.....

P.S. I don't go to church so don't go there.....

[aigel]

I think some of you are missing the point that this is SoCal and housing is on fire and finding any half way decent contractor on short notice for a smaller job is practically impossible. Look171 is the one calling the shots here, I am sure he has more than enough work. He is trying to help these folks out and gets blown off on his suggested date because something else is much more important.

So, he is asking how come? Well, people are religious and join churches where they feel it is more important than a moving date. People have always been spiritual and put it over more practical goals in life.

G

[look 171]

Originally Posted by winders

This is crazy. Inability to be flexible with their leisure time? Who cares why they are busy on a certain day of the week until 2PM. They are. That doesn't make them inflexible or problematic. They just happen to have a standing commitment on Sunday and aren't available until 2PM. If you can't deal with that, you are the one with the problem. You don't need to understand anything about the "church thing".

Issues later because they are like what now? Have a commitment? Wow.....

P.S. I don't go to church so don't go there.....

Problem? Nah, I fix the problem by not taking the job. Simple, really. I understand if its work or other important things they have to attend to, so I suppose church is pretty important, more important then moving in knowing they have two months to move out of their apartment or be in the street. Church and having lunch with their friends is more important I suppose. Saturday is blown, during the week, the only available time is after hours with flash lights so we can see about an pretty extensive remodel. Electrical is shot. Telling you this isn't going to solve the problem I do not and will not have, right? From my experience, folks who have crazy schedules and their "inability to be flexible" will lead to slow decision making and late with their purchases for the project. My question still remains, is church and hanging out that much more important then getting the house ready to move in or live out in the street. I get blame if I don't finish, of course. I am not blaming the church but try and understand now.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by aigel

I think some of you are missing the point that this is SoCal and housing is on fire and finding any half way decent contractor on short notice for a smaller job is practically impossible. Look171 is the one calling the shots here, I am sure he has more than enough work. He is trying to help these folks out and gets blown off on his suggested date because something else is much more important.

So, he is asking how come? Well, people are religious and join churches where they feel it is more important than a moving date. People have always been spiritual and put it over more practical goals in life.

G

Thanks George. They are a nice young couple in their mid 30s, but really lack the understanding of dead lines, planning, and timing on home remodel since this is their first house. I never call the shots, but just trying to help since an old client recommended them and hate to see them get eaten by the dirty contractors around here. If these folks can't have their priorities straight, I am always the one to blame at the end. We are almost never late with jobs completion. I don't overburden myself with too many projects, because it drives me nuts.

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by winders

This is crazy. Inability to be flexible with their leisure time? Who cares why they are busy on a certain day of the week until 2PM. They are. That doesn't make them inflexible or problematic. They just happen to have a standing commitment on Sunday and aren't available until 2PM. If you can't deal with that, you are the one with the problem. You don't need to understand anything about the "church thing".

Issues later because they are like what now? Have a commitment? Wow.....

P.S. I don't go to church so don't go there.....

It would be real easy to tell your customer, your hours of operations are Monday through Saturday 8 to 5 and they need to leave work early to meet you.

Not your fault or problem if they can't make it, what other people think is irrelevant, especially those that think you should have to kiss ass.

Forget about them and move on, don't heed advice from those who want to blame you, like the author of the post I quoted.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

It would be real easy to tell your customer, your hours of operations are Monday through Saturday 8 to 5 and they need to leave work early to meet you.

Not your fault or problem if they can't make it, what other people think is irrelevant, especially those that think you should have to kiss ass.

Forget about them and move on, don't heed advice from those who want to blame you, like the author of the post I quoted.

unfortunately there are many who think that way when they are paying out any sum of money, they expect their asses kissed. I am expected to say how high when they command jump. yep, he's one of them judging from his post.

don't get me wrong, majority of my clients really appreciate what we do for them. We bend over backward and they notice it and are very thankful for it.

[winders]

Originally Posted by look 171

unfortunately there are many who think that way when they are paying out any sum of money, they expect their asses kissed. I am expected to say how high when they command jump. yep, he's one of them judging from his post.

don't get me wrong, majority of my clients really appreciate what we do for them. We bend over backward and they notice it and are very thankful for it.

You know nothing about what I expect so don't pretend to know. When I hire someone to do a job, I expect them to do what they say will do for the price they quote in the agreed upon time frame. I expect the person(s) to show up when they say they will and to do quality work. Other than that, I don't have any other expectations. Even these modest expectations are rarely met these days by people in your line of work.

If a potential customer's schedule does not match up to yours, don't take the job. You didn't need anyone's advice here. This "commitment" could have been coaching a team, taking some kind of lessons, or going to a retirement home to visit people that don't have family. It doesn't matter what it is and it is no indicator of what kind of customer they would be.

[DanielDudley]

I am the coffee maker and greeter for a church meeting group.

It is a legitimate obligation.

They didn't say no to personally insult you. It seems as if you are taking it that way. For some people, their faith is a good part of what makes them the kind of people you would get along with. If you can't honor their faith or their religion, consider that this at least is worthy of respect.

How would you feel if they were on a forum complaining that you could not meet them, because you ''had'' to spend time with your children. Couldn't you skip that ? I sense a double standard here.

[look 171]

You missed the point again but that's ok. I do know one thing just from a few lines typed so far, you tend to stereotype and are prejudice toward a certain group. I am pretty spot on without having met you.

You're upset at me is it because you been screwed by a dirty contractor you hired? The guy never showed and never return your call? YOu seem to stereotype us in our line of work but yet, I shouldn't assume, based on my experience that type of potential clients will be problematic in the future? If you don't want to answer my question about church, don't do it. I don't need to know if you go or not.

I will say this to you. If you ask that I meet you on a Saturday or Sunday, and if I refuse and ask you to take time off work during regular business, you will be one pissed off camper. This much I am sure I am right.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

I am the coffee maker and greeter for a church meeting group.

It is a legitimate obligation.

They didn't say no to personally insult you. It seems as if you are taking it that way. For some people, their faith is a good part of what makes them the kind of people you would get along with. If you can't honor their faith or their religion, consider that this at least is worthy of respect.

How would you feel if they were on a forum complaining that you could not meet them, because you ''had'' to spend time with your children. Couldn't you skip that ? I sense a double standard here.

Mr. Dudley,

That's the stuff I am looking for. I am really trying to understand due to their tight schedule and their priorities. I have given up time with my kids to meet with clients and I am perfectly OK with that and have done it many times. Thanks to you, I learn something new. Never knew about the whole coffee, greeter thing and the commitment to church. Now I know. Remember, you are talking to a guy who's never stepped one foot in a church parking lot and know nothing about why they do what they do.

BTW, I am not offended, but I see some impossibility to only have a 4 hour window weekly to meet, discuss and make decisions on a pretty complex project that needed to be completed in 2 months. They made it clear that's their only time to meet for the week.

[Jim Richards]

You made a good call. If both parties involved in a project that requires regular or frequent interaction can't make their schedules mesh, for whatever reason, it's going to lead to problems.

BTW, from my experience, look 171 is a great contractor.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

You made a good call. If both parties involved in a project that requires regular or frequent interaction can't make their schedules mesh, for whatever reason, it's going to lead to problems.

yup!

[fintstone]

For many, church is a stronger commitment than work, moving in, or almost anything else. Most contractors I have worked with want my business and do their "sales" to suit my schedule. It has been part of business every place I have lived. Obviously, unless self employed, I have to follow my employer's schedule if I am to be paid and subsequently able to hire folks to work on my home, car, etc. I have rarely had the luxury of deciding when I would work or go to church. Even if I like a specific contractor and want to hire them, my previous commitments come first. If you are self-employed, your schedule is likely the most flexible. If you do not really want the work badly enough to make adjustments, you should pass on it and let them hire someone else who needs the work more.

I understand that you are very good...so that probably allows you to be a bit less flexible with your customers, but you must understand that many have very little flexibility in our schedules.

[winders]

Originally Posted by look 171

You missed the point again but that's ok. I do know one thing just from a few lines typed so far, you tend to stereotype and are prejudice toward a certain group. I am pretty spot on without having met you.

You're upset at me is it because you been screwed by a dirty contractor you hired? The guy never showed and never return your call? YOu seem to stereotype us in our line of work but yet, I shouldn't assume, based on my experience that type of potential clients will be problematic in the future? If you don't want to answer my question about church, don't do it. I don't need to know if you go or not.

I will say this to you. If you ask that I meet you on a Saturday or Sunday, and if I refuse and ask you to take time off work during regular business, you will be one pissed off camper. This much I am sure I am right.

Again, you don't know me so you should stop with the assumptions. I am not stereotyping....there are very few really good GC's out there. When you find one, it is wise to keep on their good side.

I don't know you from Adam so I have no idea what kind of GC you are. But, if you told me that you only worked M-F and 8-5, I would make a decision based on how you fit in with my schedule. I wouldn't worry about what you were doing on your weekends.

I know a great GC in my area that I have used twice now. He is reliable and the people he uses have been as well. He delivers and I pay on time. We have a great relationship. We have met on a Saturday and during regular work hours. He does what needs to be done and so do I. Imagine that!

My problem with your posts is that you seem to think this couple is being ridiculous. Based on the information you have presented, your only reason for thinking this is their Sunday time commitment for church. Which somehow makes them a problem just waiting to happen. Whatever.....