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puddy · puddy's Garage

Super sad story :/ I just hope that another mentally Ill pilot doesn't decide to ditch a plane during take off, into a city.

flipper35 · flipper35's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ted

turning military and commercial aircraft into drones is sounding better...
they just need to make the technology more affordable than the pilots.

And what keeps the guy from programming the route or a hacker from purposely killing everyone on board?

widgeon13 · 03-27-2015, 09:08 AM

Why is his medical condition identified in the note not be divulged to the public given that he murdered 149 innocent people. They must realize it will eventually come out.

BE911SC · 03-27-2015, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordner

The lower end of the pay scale is not for losers and F ups, it is for the low time pilots on the way up.

I meant that the losers and f-ups stay at the low end of the pay scale. I'll try to be clearer next time.

I started out there too.

gordner · gordner's Garage

I have seen some real losers and f ups work all the way to the top...and some at the top turn into losers or f ups over time.
People are the variable, there is no way currently to get away from that...and people are unpredictable.

URY914 · URY914's Garage

To think that a-hole welcomed those passengers on to the flight as he stood in the door.....

icemann427 · 03-27-2015, 11:27 AM

This is probably a very stupid question, but since I don't fly a whole lot, I'm not familiar with the cabin doors, anymore. If the Captain really wanted to get back in the cabin, is there a way he and a few of the passengers could have accomplished that, some how? Like using some carry on baggage as a protective shield as you and three or so other people act as a battering ram using your weight and inertia to weaken the frame/door to gain access?

ossiblue · 03-27-2015, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemann427

This is probably a very stupid question, but since I don't fly a whole lot, I'm not familiar with the cabin doors, anymore. If the Captain really wanted to get back in the cabin, is there a way he and a few of the passengers could have accomplished that, some how? Like using some carry on baggage as a protective shield as you and three or so other people act as a battering ram using your weight and inertia to weaken the frame/door to gain access?

The reinforced doors on the airbus have been tested against a hand grenade. It failed to open the door.

gordner · gordner's Garage

After 9/11 a mandate was issued to upgrade commercial aircraft cockpit doors that was effective pretty much world wide. The modified doors are essentially bullet proof, and are designed to defeat an attempted breach. The frames are hardened and the doors are a composite build up of pretty good strength, the whole intent is to prevent what you describe. With enough time I am sure you could get through, but there was not a lot of time in this case to get it done.

speeder · speeder's Garage

The answer to his question is no.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Now they're going to start profiling white guys. Scheisle.

icemann427 · 03-27-2015, 11:49 AM

OK, thanks guys! Thanks for the edumication!

motion · 03-27-2015, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar

Rather than all the conspiracy/terror theories and suggestions for Triple-armored padlocked security-clearance fingerprint double dead-man switches and remote-control robot future-planes,

I suggest that we consider the SCALE of this incident related to the amount of flights flown daily in the world, shake your head, and mourn for the victims and their families, and move on.

Psychological evaluations for pilots seems like a good idea though.

Gogar is right, of course. This type of event is extremely rare. Its a good thing ATC folks aren't flying the planes

Computer-navigated Google cars have proven to be far, far safer than human driven cars. Its still early days and they are woking on things. Now Apple has joined the fray with its own project, and Google has too.

I think the best solution may be an automated flight deck, with 2 pilots still present, if needed. They should not have the ability to over-ride the plane's logic systems, unless approved by ATC somewhere, within a few seconds. The planes logic systems would be redundant by various means of streaming: local programming, satellite, etc, which all check against each other.

flipper35 · flipper35's Garage

It isn't far removed from that now other than the ability to over ride everything. Pilots don't just fly like they used to, they manage the aircraft as a system.

gordner · gordner's Garage

I know more than a few pilots that would be hard pressed to fly without their FMS and autopilots...
Scale really is the key as motion points out, this is a very rare occurence and not easily preventable. How far do you revamp the system to prevent an occurence with such a low probability? Psych testing is a great idea for sure, but certainly presents its own host of issues. No easy answers here I don't think.

Crowbob · 03-27-2015, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemann427

This is probably a very stupid question, but since I don't fly a whole lot, I'm not familiar with the cabin doors, anymore. If the Captain really wanted to get back in the cabin, is there a way he and a few of the passengers could have accomplished that, some how? Like using some carry on baggage as a protective shield as you and three or so other people act as a battering ram using your weight and inertia to weaken the frame/door to gain access?

Well we now know an axe is inneffective.

Laneco · 03-27-2015, 01:10 PM

I've never really understood why the cockpit wasn't larger to include a lavatory within for the pilots. I fly several time a month and have always thought it was a security risk to have the pilots going in and out of the cockpit to use the lav.

Also seems more courteous to me to provide the pilots with a personal restroom. I guess both safety and courtesy have taken a back seat to cramming a few more paying passengers into each aircraft.
I cannot even imagine how horrifying the last few minutes were on this plane. RIP....

angela

VaSteve · 03-27-2015, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Why is his medical condition identified in the note not be divulged to the public given that he murdered 149 innocent people. They must realize it will eventually come out.

This guy still has his civil rights and privacy.

widgeon13 · 03-27-2015, 01:50 PM

He's dead. I'm assuming it will come out eventually, why not now.

Texlexic · 03-27-2015, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laneco

I've never really understood why the cockpit wasn't larger to include a lavatory within for the pilots. I fly several time a month and have always thought it was a security risk to have the pilots going in and out of the cockpit to use the lav.
angela

I was on the team that performed systems integration and flight testing for the Airfone system on UA's 747-400, and they had a small room with a couple of bunks and a lav behind the pilots, inside the cockpit, for relief crew on long overseas legs. I'm sure A/C size makes a difference, and they probably ditched that to put more paying seats upstairs. This was pre 9/11, anyway.