Any body ever board horses?

[fastfredracing]

We just looked at a REALLY REALLY run down farm , in one of the best areas north of Pittsburgh. 20 acres, Huge indoor riding arena, Giant Colorado ski lodge looking common area, 6 apartments, a huge 1800's run down farm house, barns, wash area, a few sheds, dumptrucks, backhoes, tractors , bulldozer ,out buildings, more tools , than I could ever fit in my building, the whole works .
I guess, at one time, it was a hoity toity riding scool, with students, and instructors living in the place ..
It is really rundown, the owner/operator did time, divorced, and it was left to his daughter to run. He has since passed, and it seems that she could barely manage a small apartment, let alone this place. It is one giant horde, and it is really falling apart. However, this is a killer piece of property , neighboring one of our most prestigious neighborhoods. It can be subdivided, and something in me tells me it could be a home run if we could pull it off. I cannot stop thinking about the place . Everything we would need to clean it up , is right there.
I think we would need at least one full time employee. + ourselves . It is really close to home, and big enough that I would consider selling what we have and building a place there. It can be subdivided.
30 some horses currently boarded there. I have no idea how it is functioning, as there is really no body running it , but there were people there riding today, and a bunch of horses in the stalls .
The money is good enough , that I think even if we bought the place, and just put it back together, cleaned up the debris, painted it all up, gutted the farm house down to the studs, and made if functioning again ,we could flip it, and make some serious coin.
One major stumbling block. I once rode a pony at the amusement park, and that is about the extent of my knowledge of horses and the whole equestrian thing.
My partner, about the same.
Any thoughts?

[Brian 162]

I'm like you I've only ridden a horse once. However we were with friends whose nephew boarded horses. The only thing I got from the conversation about boarding horses was every day someone was up at 5 in the morning 7 days a week doing what had to be done in the stables.
That's all I can tell you, hopefully others will have more input.

[Dan J]

You'll need a barn manager that you can trust (good luck on that) If you can get one
you could do it

[70SATMan]

Had to take a 2x4 to my cousins pony once. Mean son of a *****.

[LakeCleElum]

No to boarding, but grew up on a farm. I know a few that pay $400-$500/mo to board one horse....My brother has 2 horses and 2 cows....He spends about $7K a year just on Hay.

This could pencil out, but it's a daylight to dusk job for at least one person.....

It sounds like you are already pretty busy with real estate and your shop? Are you going to be a slave to getting this place into shape?

Do your research, run it for 5 yrs and sell out to a developer?

[mreid]

Find a good stable manager and offer room and board (you want them living there). I lived on an old chicken farm in upstate New York and we boarded about 12 horses. People today buy horse time shares (I kid you not). This could be a gold mine for you, but you need to find someone else to do the real work. If people feel like it is an upscale operation, they will pay in kind. I say go for it.

[Laneco]

I grew up with horses, and spent my teen years training horses professionally. We did board horses as well.

There are different types of boarding stables. A higher end stable will include the cost of feeding the horses (aside from specialized supplements which the owner must supply), stall cleaning, and turn-out. Horses are normally fed twice per day at a stable, though some horses are "free-fed" meaning that they always have hay in front of them. Figure 1 pound of hay per 100 pounds of body weight twice per day. So a 1,000 pound horse will eat 20 pounds per day. I think you know that it all goes somewhere. Stall cleaning is literally a non stop operation on a larger facility. Though 20 pounds dry goes in, mixed with water, grain, etc., figure 30 to 40 pounds including the soiled bedding very easily. Just a rough bit of math is that 30 horses are going to generate 900 pounds of waste per day...

A live-on site manager is really a necessity. Their housing and even board for a horse for them can be bundled into their actual salary. Limit the hours that other people are allowed on the facility and this will reduce both the workload on your manager and some of the risks that stables tend to have. Make rules and STICK to them such as mandatory helmets, proper footwear, etc.

Regarding the risks - commercial liability insurance is needed along with standard property insurance and some type of care/custody insurance. You will also need to be able to place a lien on a horse for unpaid board. That works somewhat like a mechanics lien on a car and can sometimes be the only way that people will pay up. Unlike a car which you can park in a back lot, you will keep feeding the horse and incurring costs every day until the owner pays up.

Run well, with good clientele, they are an absolute money maker and the value of your dirt never goes down (for future development purposes). Run poorly, you will accumulate low end clientele (like the car business) except that you will be literally eaten out of house and home.

angela

[Bugsinrugs]

Laneco said it all. Insurance , insurance ,insurance.thats all I got.

[fastfredracing]

Never thought about the waste. Sheesh, and I thought I dealt with some crap on a daily basis. What does one do with all the waste?

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

Never thought about the waste. Sheesh, and I thought I dealt with some crap on a daily basis. What does one do with all the waste?

My parents had a big ol dumpster for just two horses. Good luck.

[pavulon]

Many horse people are coo-coo for cocoa puffs. Really. If you can spot those folks and avoid them, you might have a chance.

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by Laneco

I grew up with horses, and spent my teen years training horses professionally. We did board horses as well.

There are different types of boarding stables. A higher end stable will include the cost of feeding the horses (aside from specialized supplements which the owner must supply), stall cleaning, and turn-out. Horses are normally fed twice per day at a stable, though some horses are "free-fed" meaning that they always have hay in front of them. Figure 1 pound of hay per 100 pounds of body weight twice per day. So a 1,000 pound horse will eat 20 pounds per day. I think you know that it all goes somewhere. Stall cleaning is literally a non stop operation on a larger facility. Though 20 pounds dry goes in, mixed with water, grain, etc., figure 30 to 40 pounds including the soiled bedding very easily. Just a rough bit of math is that 30 horses are going to generate 900 pounds of waste per day...

A live-on site manager is really a necessity. Their housing and even board for a horse for them can be bundled into their actual salary. Limit the hours that other people are allowed on the facility and this will reduce both the workload on your manager and some of the risks that stables tend to have. Make rules and STICK to them such as mandatory helmets, proper footwear, etc.

Regarding the risks - commercial liability insurance is needed along with standard property insurance and some type of care/custody insurance. You will also need to be able to place a lien on a horse for unpaid board. That works somewhat like a mechanics lien on a car and can sometimes be the only way that people will pay up. Unlike a car which you can park in a back lot, you will keep feeding the horse and incurring costs every day until the owner pays up.

Run well, with good clientele, they are an absolute money maker and the value of your dirt never goes down (for future development purposes). Run poorly, you will accumulate low end clientele (like the car business) except that you will be literally eaten out of house and home.

angela

This is as good as advice on this subject can get.^^^^. I have two stables and corrals on my property that sit empty, regardless of numerous requests to board. Been there done that. Even at $800 per horse per month I lose money. Could make a couple bucks if I was willing to feed them twice a day and pick up after them myself. I'm not.

[GWN7]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

Never thought about the waste. Sheesh, and I thought I dealt with some crap on a daily basis. What does one do with all the waste?

You put it in a pile and next year you sell it to rich people for their gardens.

[id911T]

My wife and I own a small horse boarding business (12 horses), so not exactly what you are looking at but some of this may apply.

We only do self-care pasture boarding (they feed) and full-care pasture boarding (we feed). All the animals have access to shelter of course, but they do not stay in stalls. They are free to circulate between pasture and shelter as they please. Since we have our own animals to care for the workload isn't that much different than our normal routine (1hr in the evenings). We do not provide stall boarding except for medical reasons, since it's a PITA and takes a ton of time.

If you have clients that want their animals in a stall most of the time and turned out for a few hours a day, then expect a ton of work feeding, mucking, and playing musical chairs. This may be a requirement for studs, horses with medical issues, crazy horses, or those with crazy owners.

If you have the land and can give the animals some room, then your daily responsibilities change to checking them over, feeding supplements/hay, making sure the watering is working, and giving your fences a glance.

It was easy for us to get into boarding since we already had horses, and supplements our income nicely. Chose your clients carefully, it's easy to spend 80% of your time dealing with 1 bad-apple client.

[ckelly78z]

We just got done building a large pole barn 60'x104' on our own property to house our 4 horses and 2 donkeys with the remaining area being an indoor riding arena for us to enjoy. Many people have asked us to board thier horses for them, but I refuse to have the foot traffic, liability, parking problems, and drama of having a boarding facility. The only way I would do it is if it was a separate property that was managed by somone I could trust completly for doing the work and being honest.

This property you mentioned sounds like a possible gold mine if you don't end up pouring all of your money, time, and soul into it. There is always work to be done on a farm, especially when you are catering to a high end clientelle who expect cleanliness, service, and perfection.

[greglepore]

Fred-my s/o specializes in equine real estate, both private and commercial. She and I have run the numbers several times, and it is very very hard to even break even on a horse operation in the northeast. The only way that you make money is by doing lessons and other programs. The actual boarding, at least here in eastern Pa, is usually break even or worse.

Here, with our winters, winter care is a giant PITA. Horses that don't have pasture don't necessarily get turned out, and as a result the load on the barn, both literally in terms of cleaning stalls and figuratively in terms of hay, goes up exponentially. Oh yeah, Pa has a statute that requires you to have a manure management plan in place, with an operation of 30 horses that requires paying someone to haul.

And then there's barn drama to deal with. Ask any honest horseperson about it. Boarding stables are notorious for it among the clientele.

Here, is eastern Pa., the going rate is around 600/mth for full care. It is darn near impossible to break even at that. Self care is half that money, with lower expense, but beware, because often self care translates to "owner there half the time", meaning you do the other half.

Unless you want to train horses and riders, or have a manager already in mind, forget about it.

Now, if the property is otherwise attractive enough and the horse operation would partially subsidize it, fine. It is a full time business, though, and it sounds like you have one of those. And its more backbreaking than what you do now, if that's possible.

Jut adding to the excellent advice upthread.

[GH85Carrera]

When I was a teenager I wanted a horse or I thought I wanted a horse. My mom did the perfect thing. A friend of mine that already had a horse had me spend the weekend with him. I thought it was fun the first day to get up early and go feed the horse, muck out the stable, brush the horse and all the other things needed. We did not have time to ride the horse. The second day was not so much fun. Then I figured there are NO holidays, snow days, or just not feeling like it days. I decided my bicycle was a better deal.

There are numerous places within a mile of my house with horses. Some rent out space, many are just for their own horses. I like to look at horses as I drive past.

It takes a lot of work and money to have a horse in the modern world. Maybe you can capture some of that money. Good luck.

[jhynesrockmtn]

I run a non profit equine therapy program. We have 8 horses and have transitioned from a full boarding situation to taking care of them on our own and just renting the 8 acres and facilities we occupy. I have a full time equine specialist on staff. I know relatively little about their management. I've watched the owner of the 120 acre horse property we are on go downhill with an incompetent owner to the point he's lost all boarding clientele with the exception of one newer trainer and her clients. It's been a series of bad decisions, drama he couldn't deal with, etc. Don't underestimate the on going capital maintenance and re investment. Not knowing anything about horses puts you way behind. It isn't just a manager you'll need. You'll also need staff to feed, clean stalls, etc. The drama part is very real. Horse people are crazy :-)

[dad911]

Don't underestimate the cost of repairs, cleanup, the drain on your time, and lost income from the time it takes from your other business.

This sounds like more than a full time job......worse if you don't love horses.

[SiberianDVM]

I would love it, but then I had horses from age 6 to age 20, and I am a veterinarian. Even so, it would be a hell of a risk.

For someone with no equine experience, the risk would be enormous and you would never have a minute when you were not dealing with a problem.

When I was a kid, many years ago, there was a very large stable/riding facility/boarding facility on the outskirts of Augusta, owned and run by a married couple, one of whom was a real Oklahoma cowboy who had once played polo on the same team as Will Rogers, and the other whose family had been "society" in Aiken, and lived and breathed horses. They lived 1 step above abject poverty. If they couldn't manage to make money doing it, it must be dang near impossible.