How would you smart guys interpret this Carfax
 

CARFAX Vehicle History Report for this 2011 BMW 1M: WBSUR9C59BVS96556

I don't want to color anybody's answers with what I am thinking. If you were interested in a car and saw this Carfax, what would it make you think?

Looks fine to me...are you concerned about something specific? Short ownership intervals?

edit: ah, I see it now. The PA, then offered for sale in NC then back to PA, then to IL is a bit weird, but being a CPO BMW I bet it's just the way things were reported to DMV that make it look odd.

They drove it 1800 miles in two weeks?! There's something funny with that... I'd like to see the transfers from dealer to dealer. That cannot be right.

The ownership intervals are short, some really short. That's the only red flag I see.

Meh. Car got traded around, looks like the it was a 'managers car' and got driven by the last dealer. I don't see anything too odd.

What bothers me are the following things:

1) Carfax says 1 owner. How is this possible based upon what the report itself shows?

2) The car was CPO'd then sat unsold for an entire year, then sold, got like 1,800 miles put on it in 2 weeks, and turns up for sale in FL? (again, somehow Carfax says 1-owner at the top, which makes no sense)

3) If you look to the left, you'll see that the carfax report is provided by Champion Motors of Pompano. They are not the seller. The seller is a small outfit that sells used Porsches, BMWs, Ferraris, etc. I called the selling dealer today and asked if he could clarify how he got it, and he didn't know off the top of his head. This is ok, as he is a salesman and it was his cell phone. I asked him to get it figured out if he could before I get there tomorrow to have a look. He said he thought it might have come from Champion, which would make sense based on the carfax. But I just don't get how the car got from Chicago to FL plus 1,800 miles in 2 weeks and turned in to a different dealer without Carfax saying it has been more than 1 owner.

4) Supposedly the dealer in Chicago (Perillo) is shady as hell and has their own in house body-shop and will represent accident cars as like-new. No matter what, if I got serious I'd have a PPI done by someone with a paint meter and try to be sure about the car's history. I mean,if they respray the lower chin up front that's one thing, as they all get gouged down where you can't really see from being so low, but if it has respray on any panels I'm walking. I might walk anyhow, it just bugs me that the history is so odd.


Do you think if I called or stopped in at Champion they'd be willing to tell me how they got the car even though it's not there anymore? They'd have no incentive to do so, except just being kind humans (which I don't generally associate with car dealers)

Traded around for sure. Also could have been a lemon, pushed around.

I don't know the details but let me tell you that I definitely would NOT buy this car. Maybe in 10 years when it is $5k, but it probably still demands a pretty good price - not worth the risk if you can get a no-stories car elsewhere (how about from a private 1st owner!) for about the same money.

G

Part of the pricing on it is because it has 2.5 years left of BMW CPO warranty on it, combined with the mileage (and the unfortunate dealer profit). From a private seller without the CPO, it would be about $5k less.

BTW- in 10 years I doubt it will be worth $5k. They all sell for more than original MSRP now, 4 years and maybe 25k miles later. They only made 740 of these for the US. Part of my logic for buying a 1M is I expect depreciation to be minimal. I don't think its gonna be worth MORE, or even the same, but if it only loses $15k of value over the next 6 years that's really not bad at all.

Assuming for a moment that you bought into my financial assessment, if a PPI shows no bodywork and reveals no issues, and you at least have the piece of mind of a real warranty, would you still bail? I'm trying to be disciplined...

go to the BMW boards and start looking around for 1 series and lemon and see if it looks like someone might have traded it in to get rid of it. If there were only 740 made, there might be a chance you can find the original owner. I am just assuming as it would seem to me that whoever buys a 1M would probably be forum user too.

Oh, I am all over the 1M board:
BMW 1M Forum / 1-series M Coupe Forum - BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)

Great group over there. A lot of the time they can tell me who the owner is/was, but no such luck this time. Not yet at least. There's a few tricks remaining that I can try.

I have driven coast to coast in 3.5 days several times.
Dont sweat the mileage and the time.

In and of itself, no big deal. But would you buy a car, drive it 1800 miles I'm 15 days, then trade it in?

flip it?
dealership?

I know one guy that would buy a nice pickup in AZ and drive it back to the rust belt and sell a used rust free pickup for a profit and the profit was his airplane ride home. He would get a "free" trip back to see his parents. Sometime he made enough to put some money in the bank.

It was for sale during this time, a rare car like this one is not a typical demo, really not a demo at all. It seems strange that it would sit for a year, then have been sold(dealer transfer, hence the one-owner status), then driven 1800 miles and sold again to another dealer. I guess it's possible, but not likely. BMW should be able to give you the scoop.

Guy on the 1 series board works at a dealer and was able to tell me this:

Production date was 2011/09

MSRP was $53,760 (before destination)
Options:
ZC2 - Convenience Package (alarm, comfort access, PDC)
ZP2 - Premium Package 2 which includes 7KB - Nav w/ enhanced BT
494 - Heated front seats
655 - Satellite radio
688 - HK Sound
6NR - BMW Apps

Retail sale was on 11/19/11 so factory warranty would expire on 11/19/15
72 month/100K CPO (done at Perillo BMW) brings that out to 11/19/17.

Wholesale dealer is listed as Tom Hesser BMW of Scranton, PA...they did the PDI on 10/24/11 with 1 mile on the clock. It looks like it was then traded to Perillo as they are the retail dealer who sold it to the first owner on 11/19/11

Break in service was done at Daniels BMW in Allentown, PA on 12/22/11 with 478 miles on it.

Next service was done at the same dealer on 11/21/12 for "Snap-in adapter / telephone cradle incorrect connection /contact" with 4,306 miles.

Next was done at BMW of the Main Line in Bala Cynwyd, PA...standard oil service at 8,325 miles along with the battery cable recall.

Last one was done at Perillo in Chicago: Brake fluid flush, wipers, microfilter, "Sealing ring (O-ring) of refrigerant line Leaking", "Key battery, remote control permanent failure" and oil service done on 12/16/14 with 9,542 miles.

So that is as much as BMW can tell me, I think.

Ok, that is good background. The longer you keep the car the less important this shuffeling history will likely be. That said, it made you pause - it will undoubtedly make the next owner pause as well. And reduce the number of buyers = reduce the price. I'd still shy away from this.

Have you dealt with selling a special interest car? I have sold two 911 and both of them were 20+ years old. The number of "enthusiasts" that expected a mint car for $15k was staggering. I'd hate to deal with those morons and have to explain to them why some shuffling during the first few years of the car isn't a big issue. ;)

G

I've only sold cars twice, both to forum members, and so they were good transactions because everyone was above board. But your point is a valid one.

I was looking at a Carfax for an 07 Vette. It had 8 owners in total 3 of which in the span of a year and a half. It raised a flag with me thinking something mechanical that can't be figured out.

The Carfax is worth the paper it is printed on. There, I solved your paradox.

The fact that people make major purchase decisions on this service simply staggers me. A huge number of things don't get reported to Carfax. Much of what gets reported to Carfax is misinterpreted by their algorithms, like this being a "one owner" car. It is WORTHLESS. With all that said, nothing on there is scary. It likely bounced between dealerships through wholesale transactions.

Get a good impartial PPI, and if you like it, buy it. Carfax should be a tiny factor in your purchase decision.

The point is, as you state, that people use the Carfax to a fault. If you have a car with a funny Carfax it will be less marketable than one with a spotless Carfax. If you buy the car to re-sell, driving investment etc. like our OP here, this is very important. You don't want to pay top price for a car that is not in the top marketable range ... the fact that we are having this discussion shows that this car is not a nobrainer.

G

You guys both make sense.

OWP makes sense in saying that this likely is a good car. If you would just buy it and drive it into the ground like a regular daily driver, this would not be a biggie.

I read a little on the 1M - looks like fun, but for Porsche Turbo money? ;)

Can't you find one out of a nicer climate? I see one on SF craigs list. Over $60k :eek:

Good luck in your search!

G

The one I'm looking at is in South Florida now, but spent it's life in PA up to now. Another one just came up to tonight, one owner for sale by owner, and has always been in Miami. Orange. 13k miles. BUT- has CF hood and trunk (painted) and owner wants 62.5k. And not nearly as much warranty (only till May 16 versus Nov 17).

I've considered 996tt as well, but then we're talking about a 12 year old car and for a few years I want something that needs very little fixed. Plus the back seat of the 1M is a lot bigger for the kiddie seats.

Here's the orange one:FS: Valencia Orange 1M | 13,000 Miles | Fully Loaded | 1yr Warranty Left

Why are you worried about the warranty on a 20k mile car? Do you expect large things to go south? If yes, then why buy such a car? :)

If it has that little miles a rust belt background may be ok, but I'd still rather have a car from a better climate.

Here is the SF one I found on CL. Also orange. So 60k really is the going rate? You really must like these. I am not following. 60k will buy a hell of a lot of other performance cars.

2011 BMW 1M Coupe *Must See color! 6 Speed*

G

I'm just saying that it you look for a Carfax that is spot on perfect that you might be looking forever. That car shows no accidents, which is about all the value a Carfax provides.

2011 1M average wholesale is $49,500, and there's normally several per week at auction. Just sayin'......:)

I would not depend too much on carfax.
IF I had a very expensive sought after car ,If It got bobooed.......would I hide it, and fix it in a dark place so no one would ever know on carfax?

It was sold 3 times. It is not a one owner car. CARFAX is, as mentioned above, worth the paper it is printed on or pixels you are looking at. A test drive is the only way I ever feel comfortable about a car. If it goes down the road at 80 with no surprises and does not leak or smoke I feel ok about them.

The nice thing about a 1M vs a Porsche Turbo is the BMW blends in a bit better to the background, you're making a "quieter" statement (though I would love a 996TT myself).

Didn't even drive it.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...425_144823.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...425_144857.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...425_145036.jpg

Carfax said no accidents, right? Exhibit A how worthless they are.

What is it we see on the last picture?

I don't know OWP. If the car has been handed off 8 times between people and dealers it likely is not a good sign. A single owner, even if he had a fender bender, would probably have it repaired to standards that will take a lot more to detect it. This is shoddy crap work, showing no love whatsoever by the owners.

340hp? That's not even close to a 911 TT, if you don't include the 993. I have to say though, it is neat to have a little muscular stubby car like that with high performance. Just not 60k cool in my book.

I may have a E46 M3 in my future. I still am jonesing a convertible. The convertible Porsches I like are all outside of price range now. (Would have loved a "his and hers" 993 coupe + convertible). The E46 is in the 15k range now - would be more car than a Boxster.

G

Over spray on the tail light, and maybe a tape edge line on the bumper underneath, I think.
Respray=accident or at least some parking lot bumpercar.

Oh - primer - got it! I thought it was wax residue, but it is sprayed on, indeed. Insurance qualified collision shop work!

G

The pictures are worth far more than the Carfax. I would never buy sight unseen based on Carfax results, that is why. You simply cannot beat a good in-person inspection.

George, I fully agree regarding the 1M. Seems like a ton of money for a cool car, but not an incredible car. If much rather have a 996TT and a spare $15k. The TT would be a better long term investment, and probably be more reliable as well.

The pictures I took don't even do justice to how bad the work was. There were runs in the paint. The bumper did not align properly on the right side. The paint near that same tail light with over spray also seems to have been wet sanded as you can see in the white section.

The 1M has gone up in value and will likely at a minimum hold close for some time. Read up on it.

That said, I am not closed to a 996TT. But it would have to be minty fresh with lots of records and sport seats. Ideally speed yellow.

The price of that car will buy you a 997 TT. A 996 is close to half that cost.

Shenanigans on the 997tt. Really?

Yellow!?!

I know nothing about BMW's but looking at the pics on the M1 board gave me wood.