Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 8595492)

Community colleges are chronically ignored as well. You can get your prerequisite work done for 1/3 of the price, without any impact to your final degree.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 8595492)

Community colleges are chronically ignored as well. You can get your prerequisite work done for 1/3 of the price, without any impact to your final degree.

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway (Post 8595643)

I'm starting to think that college is a myth. I have come in contact with several folks who do not have college degrees yet are experts in their respective fields and are commanding serious money.

While I know not everybody can be like them I am looking at the common threads that make them different. Seems like it's :
1) they really dig what they do
2) they have a passion to understand all aspects of it
3) they ask more questions than they answer
4) they are all good natured
5) money was never the motivation but money found them

I am sure there are other characteristics. Those are what stands out.

Btw - these folks could teach many professors a thing or two.

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese (Post 8594870)

Need to subscribe to read the article. Either way, the colleges have done a real great job convincing a generation there is no honor in being a carpenter or an electrician...

Originally Posted by MRM (Post 8594933)

One of the points is that simply giving access to college doesn't do much good without some guidance of what to do with it. The upper classes have that guidance built into their support network. The lower classes don't, so the realistic access to meaningful college education explains more of the income gap than any other factor, times ten.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 8595669)

My son's brother dropped out of college after the first semester. He was a serious geek and got a job as a software engineer. That was in about 1985. You probably need a degree to get a job like that these days.

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 8595724)

Along those lines, this is worth a read

Education and class: America

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 8595865)

The Economist is a rather conservative magazine and one of the most thoughtful English language media sources on econcomic topics. Hardly a liberal rag.

Originally Posted by afterburn 549 (Post 8594895)

schools , think tanks they are all business and pander to the hand that feeds them.
Take away the subsidies , you will see them hike the sails for a better horizon.
Until that time they will preach what the govt grant and free monies tell them to preach.
Simple

Originally Posted by Nickshu (Post 8595445)

The only reason this reality has not hit campuses and the "culture" is that the government continues to subsidize a multitude of creative financing options for college education.

Originally Posted by Nickshu (Post 8595445)

By and large the 4 year degree is no longer worth even a fraction of what it costs today. That said it' still a necessary evil. The key is to not pay $300K for a private university degree in underwater basketweaving when you are just as eligible to be accepted into a good graduate program coming from the local state or community institution.

Originally Posted by Nickshu (Post 8595445)

This.

A 4 year degree from virtually anywhere today is meaningless. There are some exceptions to this such as engineering where you can actually use a 4 year degree but by an large without graduate studies most 4 year grads are unemployable without further education.

The only reason this reality has not hit campuses and the "culture" is that the government continues to subsidize a multitude of creative financing options for college education.

By and large the 4 year degree is no longer worth even a fraction of what it costs today. That said it' still a necessary evil. The key is to not pay $300K for a private university degree in underwater basketweaving when you are just as eligible to be accepted into a good graduate program coming from the local state or community institution.

Originally Posted by HardDrive (Post 8595487)

We put the money in years ago. Nice to know we are being screwed for taking personal responsibility. I don't think we qualify for a Roth. Too much income.

Originally Posted by petrolhead611 (Post 8596560)

We have the identical problem in the UK. Many kids are now taking up apprenticeships again, including commercial ones( there is high demand for places) and learning on their job. They come out of it with a good job, a career , and no debt. My view today is that unless a degree leads to a well paid profession, eg Medicine, architecture, etc, dont bother going to university. Even accountants and lawyers can qualify in the UK by working as a trainee in a professional firm without the hideous expense of university, that is if they can get the very highly sought after traineeships.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 8596570)

The traineeships sound like a fantastic idea, I don't believe they are common here. In aerospace many of the best engineers that I have worked with are former aircraft mechanics who went back to school, I'd love to see an easier path for similarly talented individuals.

If one of my kids is interested in a licensed trade (plumbing, HVAC, electrician, etc) I won't discourage them. Demand is growing and a large percentage of the workforce is near retirement age. Licensing means that the illegal aliens won't take those jobs, and they can't outsource plumbing a house to India.

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 8596673)

My Dad was a Tool & Die Maker for Packard before and during the Big One achieving his BS in Chemistry while working full time. After the war he never looked back eventually landing as an Aerospace Engineer in CA. His comments were that the new engineers lacked the practical hands on experience and relied on theory alone, which he felt didn't always lead to functionality.