Early life experiences are certainly issues that maintain the income and education gap.

That is what my youngest decided to do. She graduated with a 4.25, received an open acceptance to any UC in the state and when I asked her where she wanted to go she told me that it doesn't make any sense to spend the money of a UC for her pre-reqs.

We're lucky that we have a great JC just down the road and she'll transfer to a good four year and spend the dollars where it matters most.

I had a cousin who wanted to go to Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, which at the time was the most expensive college in the country. He lived at home and got his AA at the local community college and went straight to Embry-Riddle where he graduated. So it does work out for some students. But here's a quote from the Barista article that pretty much gets to the heart of the problem:

"But community college is already close to free for most low-income students, and still only 4 percent of all community-college students earn a two-year degree in two years. (Yes, 4 percent.) Money is just part of the problem.

We like to think of college as a meritocracy, a place where only the dedicated and smart survive. But it seems to be something else. Between 1970 and 2012, the proportion of American 24-year-olds who came from affluent families and had a bachelor’s degree rose from 40 percent to 73 percent—quite an enlightenment period for privileged kids. But over the same period, the proportion of American 24-year-olds who came from low-income families and had a bachelor’s degree rose from 6 percent to just 8 percent.

***

Our class-based higher-education divide explains more about America’s widening income gap than does any other single factor, according to Anthony P. Carnevale, the director of the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce. Declining union membership, frayed social services, low minimum wages—none matters as much as the unequal distribution of college degrees and certificates. “Income inequality started increasing in 1983,” Carnevale told me, “and 70 percent of that inequality is derived from differences in access to higher education. It is both a fountain of opportunity and a bastion of privilege. The problem has gotten worse and worse and worse".”

I am finding the cost of college fairly manageable, to my surprise. My daughter was accepted at several private and public schools. She decided to go to the Clark Honors College at U of Oregon. She's a practical kid and felt the program, cost, and location were the best choice. So far, most of the way through her freshman year, it looks like a very good school for her. The in-state tuition and room/board are not too high. Next year, when she moves off-campus, the cost will be lower. The distance is far enough that she is getting the "going off to college" experience, but she can visit home when she wants. Oddly, I now talk (mostly via texting) with her more, and more thoughtfully, than when she was in high school.

If what you're saying is true (i.e., that she can go to UCLA or Berkeley), I hope that you will step in as a parent and stop the insanity.

To be able to go to a National top 20 level school for $14K tuition, and pass that up and go to a community college is . . . not to be harsh, one of the dumbest things I've ever heard and a really, really bad decision.

UCLA or Berkeley (for those able to get in) are the best educational bargains in the world.

If you can pay it, pay it. If you can't pay it, she'll get financial aid and won't have to pay it.

Sorry, but I thoroughly disagree. ACCESS to higher education for the poor and minorities has never been better. I am white, but grew up with household income that was consistently near the poverty level. I was able to easily receive more money in grants and loans than I needed. Were I a minority there were numerous scholarships that I would have qualified for. In talking to an advisor at that time, I was told that many of the minority focused scholarships are not awarded every year because there are not qualified or enough applicants. So access is not the issue. Based on mention of "declining union membership, frayed social services, low minimum wages" I smell an agenda from the author.

Attending CC for prerequisites has zero influence on what college your bachelor's diploma comes from. So long as the credits transfer there is no downside to CC.

The first two years of college are the most formative and hugely important. Socially, getting connected to the campus, etc.

To go to a CC when you have the opportunity to go to a UCLA or Cal (which have roughly 15% acceptance rates, similar to many of the Ivies) is just insane. The tuition at those schools is, relatively speaking, dirt cheap.

That's like having the winning lottery ticket and deciding not to cash it.

I do highly agree with your first paragraph, though.

Access and opportunity to colleges for lower income and (favored) minorities has never been higher. End of the story on that one.

(Favored minorities means non Asians. Asians are disfavored minorities who are actually actively discriminated against by most admissions committees).

So true and so true.

At 50 years old, I am currently going to a community college to get the "required" degree that came with accepting my new position as a prototype technician for an autoparts supplier. I am going for a machinist's degree, but doing only one class at a time while also working full time, I will be close to retirement age before I finish a 2 yr associates degree !
I have often preached that the ONLY reason companies require a degree for employment is that you prove that you can keep at it and get the job done, and are able to put up with the stresses and BS of college to complete the requirement. I don't believe for most degrees, that it has anything to do with learning the skills of your desired trade, it's more about accomplishing your goal, and proving that you can be taught something and retain it long enough to take a mid-term and Final.

+1. Well said. The few bucks you save at a JUCO can in no way compare to what you're leaving on the table when it comes to academic rigor and quality, facilities, and overall campus life a good 4-year college provides. Not to mention that you run the risk that kids who choose to save on tuition by going to JUCO might get disenchanted with the whole experience and not continue. I've seen this and it's unfortunate. Especially those kids who got accepted into good schools but went the cost savings route.

Not a terrible decision at all and you make it sound as if she can't transfer which is ridiculous as that's her plan. She is not in an Associates program.

You haven't considered mandatory dorm for freshman and other costs associated with school "away". Even if she were to go to UCSC which is about 7 miles down the road, we'd still have pay dorm fees as a freshman which more than doubles what you quoted. Meanwhile she's living at home, working local, buying her own car and has nearly 10k in her savings at the moment.

The cost savings are substantial and getting her transferable pre reqs at our JC will have absolutely no detrmental affect on her degree when she graduates. The rating of their education is very good and it may be argued that she is getting more benefit from taking the same pre-reqs in a smaller class environment and she's currently pulling a 4.0.

It's not even a matter of whether we can pay for it or not,, My eldest will be transferring to Cal Poly or Davis in the fall (girl keeps changing her mind). So far paying as we go, no loans, no dependency on the Govt.

It's the best bang for the buck and neither of my girls will be saddled with student loan debt when they graduate. They are on their own for their Masters, my eldest is already talking about a straight shot to her Phd in OChem.

WHens the last time someone said "Where did you spend your first year in college?" :D

I don't think our approach is insane at all, it's very practical. THey certainly aren't missing the "college experience".

You make some great points, but I think the last two years are, especially at a big school, by far the most important. All the real work happens in the 3/400 series courses. I actually took four graduate level Econ courses my senior year and made all the connections then.

I went to Cal...I was older than my peers because I chased the baseball dream after HS, taking over a year and a half off from school while I struggled to get a scholarship. This was the mid 1970's folks and recruiting was very much a regional affair, especially in the non revenue sports like baseball.

I had no parental financial support while not in school. That was their deal...and it was fair in my mind: I could have played at any number of southern schools right out of the gate, but I grew up in California and wanted to return. Again, 1970's. Eek.

So I worked and played, learned an inordinate amount of things about myself, made a lot of mistakes and grew up rather quickly. The best thing I came to understand was how to get a job. I had a bunch.

So when I got to be a freshman, I witnessed carnage on a scale I could not have imagined: Most 17/18 year-old kids have no more business being in college than my Lab (who wants to be a English Major, btw).

All the mistakes I made were off the college grid. The drunken flunk outs, the over obsessed burn-outs, the rebels all were playing for score. I wasn't: Thank god my one month excursion in Mexico with a cute boat woman from SOAR didn't show up on my GPA.

The parental decision on where and how to invest in our children's education is, of course, child by child. I treated both of my kids differently and approached their college year investments accordingly.

I can tell you that had a robust CC program been available here, the calculus would have been much different.

Well, that's entirely dependent on the kid isn't it and IMO if a kid isn't motivated to continue college, it doesn't matter if it's a traditional four year college or a JC where they start out as Freshman, they are going to drop out anyway.

I guess if one doesn't know their kids well enough one can just ship them off, pay for it all and hope for the best. I'm lucky to find myself NOT in that position.

Of course one needs to take into account what the particular JC is able to provide. There are some very, very good JCs out there. Of course one misses the whole Frat/Soro thing,,,,,, shame that.

Believe me if I didn't feel the level of education she was getting was good enough at this point, I'd have shipped her off. That's not the case. We looked well into the success rate with transfers into the Four Years where they are loooking to finish up.

[QUOTE= Thank god my one month excursion in Mexico with a cute boat woman from SOAR didn't show up on my GPA. [/QUOTE]

Pics or it didn't happen ;)

Color me envious.

Not necessarily. If you bomb out of the four-year college at least you tried it. You bypass UNC Chapel Hill for the local community college, get unmotivated for whatever reason and never experience the former, well, not a one for one. At UNC Chapel Hill maybe you don't get "unmotivated" and drop out. Huge disparity in academics support, surroundings, challenges, etc.

That said, to be clear, Mike, sounds like you've done your due diligence and this approach will obviously work for you. A 4.25 GPA - wow! Congrats.

The kid's diploma is going to say UCLA or UCB on it, even though 2 of the 4 years were spent at a junior college. It is not stupid or insane, it is fiscally smart. Get the prerequisites at the JC on the cheap, get the higher level courses at the university. The last 2 years are WAY more important than the first 2 in college. I can not disagree strongly enough with your opinion that going to JC/CC for the first two years is a bad idea.

lmao.

We'll just have to disagree on that one, then.

Although I'd guess that 99.9% of people truly in the position of being accepted to UCLA or UCB (esp. paying in state tuition at those schools) would not choose to go to a community college instead. UCLA ad UCB are unique in the value they offer (internationally renown and highly selective level of universities v. price). The tuition is "three years for the price of one" compared to similar caliber schools. The only one that could even come close might be UVA for a Virginian.

And, if one was already accepted to UCLA or UCB, and chose to go to a CC instead, there's generally no guarantee they'll be able to transfer.

Which part is funny?

Thanks! Yeah, happy as hell but, the vain side of me was a little disappointed I must say. ;) But, in the end what is that? So my MY bragging rights get taken down a notch.SmileWavy School didn't come as easy for her as her older Sis but, she's a very hard worker and has her "plan" worked out to the nth. Wherever she decides to finish up I'll be immensely proud of her.