Miata vs S2000 vs. Corvette/Trans Am/Camaro. What are the fundamental differences?
 

Marketing stereotypes aside, why would you choose one over the other?

I did some basic reading, and here are my impressions, so far:

There is a large price difference, to start.
Miatas go for $6k to $8k, while S2000 is $15k+

Miata is lighter.

S2000 has twice the HP, so it’s probably a totally different car to drive.
S2000 more of an aggressive sports car than a casual "fun to drive" Miata roadster ?
It seems the allure of the Miata is the addage “Its better to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow”

S2000 had limited supply, which is probably reflected in the higher price.
Out of production also limits supply. Also considered a future collectible.

If it safe to say car buffs feel that S2000 is the near perfect car,
while Miata is the near perfect platform you can heavily modify ?

Lastly, are Corvette / Trans Am / Camaro even part of this conversation?
I don't really know where they fit in.

Do you want to go fast in a straight line, or fast while turning?

The muscle cars couldn't be any more different. Cheap but cheaply made, fast, only the Corvette will handle well. How well depends on model.

S2K is a Miata on crack. More powerful high revving engine, much higher limits. Also very hard to find one that hasn't had the Fast & Furious treatment. The Miata is all about fun. Not fast but you can beat on it around town and have a ton of fun without going to jail. Both are super reliable.

It's an odd collection of cars to look at. What are your criteria?

You have no torque 4cyl momentum cars vs V8 cars with torque.

Momentum cars are great first cars (or forever) for learning to drive on track.
Miata great sports car.
S2000 no torque gutless car under 4k rpm, hated it, but it looked sharp!

You did not mention what year cars, mostly 1990s at those prices?
I'd avoid the C4 Vette and go for a C5 Vette.
A 4th gen Camaro or Mustang is a nice car too.

If you test drive them all you'll know which feels best to you.
Life is short try them all.

I don't fit in the S2000. Not enough room between the door's arm rest and steering wheel for my knee when using the clutch.

Took the sun visors out of the Miata, and fit great. The visors hang down too far and obstruct vision for tallish people.

For street driving, nothing puts a smile on my face faster than the Miata. I can drive it hard, flogging it to redline, and it's still not fast enough to cause problems. It is ignored by law enforcement compared to the 911.

Cars with 400+ horsepower are fun for only a few seconds at a time unless you're on the track.

Mash the throttle on the Miata, and you're having fun.
Mash the throttle of a Corvette, and you're committing a felony.

add the sky and the Pontiac clone esp the turbo versions
and the bmw z3 z4

s-2000 is a very good car but most are over 100k miles with a price that does not reflect the miles

mazda speed version is the best of the mx-5's [factory turbo version]

I have had both, an early Miata and a apt S2000. The S2000 handling limits are higher, a better track car out of the box. My little Miata really lack power. Put it this way, a tow truck almost beat me, He wasn't racing, I was trying like hell to get past him so I can get to the turns. The tail can be stepped out and brought back in the Miata with ease. The S requires a tiny little more effort. The grip is much higher in the S as well. As far as torque is concern, the S2000 is almost as fast from 0 rpm to 5000. it just doesn't feel like it, after that, another 100hp is really nice to have. I shift at 5000rpm when ever I drive it.

;) a 6 cyl vette make more sense?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1430496025.jpg

40hp 125/15 slicks fun slow car. :cool:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1430496044.jpg

I did not care for the S2000, could not get comfortable in that car. Great motor, I think the torqueless wonder appellation is not accurate either, it just needs to be wound up a bit. Miata fit me like a glove, with a turbo it fit me even better than that.

I could, and did include the Boxster and the offerings from BMW when I was looking. You really need to go drive them all. I would not consider the Camaro, Mustang or Corvette to be comparable.

As someone who has recently been shopping for an S2000, I like the driving dynamics. To me, its still gutless, but thats not the point, its fun to drive. Miatas are also fun to drive, but more gutless. The two 4banger cars you mentioned are lighter and more nimble, but the V8 cars can be made to handle very well, they're just more clumsey in the transitions and less precise feeling. But, you get the power! The difference comes to feel, build quality, and taste.

Some of the replies mentioned, track driving, is that your goal? What is the intended use of the car? If it is going to see heavy auto-x / track / DE time, I'd go for the miata. The consumables are considerably cheaper and will last longer. If its a street only car, that becomes a wash.

Also, how important is it to be an open car? The F-body cars will be horibly flimsy/floppy feeling in a convertible. . . as will a Fox body and newer mustang.

I prefer the feel and fit of the S2000 to a first gen Miata (have not driven newer), and I'm 6'1", 180lb.


edit: another option: Not sure if this is your cup of tea at all, but have you considered an '04 - '05 STi? I loved mine, only sold it because I put 150k miles on it and was a little bored with it. With very little done to it, it flat ripped. I liked showing up to PCA auto-x's and beating everything on street tires. Very easy to drive fast.

And another option - E36 or E46 M3? Their prices are in the low $10k's to low $20k's depending on options, miles, etc. I'm looking at a '99 'vert this afternoon.

My only S2000 gripes are the examples I've driven had excessive clutch travel before engaging (not sure if the examples I drove, or the model in general), clutch pedal will come out 75% before biting. Also, the power steering is overboosted, which means you could just put fatter front tires on, and it would probably feel better.

With some criteria I'm sure we could help narrow things down. I love helping to spend other people's money.

Depending on what you want, don't rule out the American stuff either. I had a Stage 3 Roush Mustang and have a GT500. They are a totally different kind of fun, but still a blast.

The first 2 options don't require you to grow a mullet.

5.0 Mustang then this thread adding two cars that are not even similar?

Odd.

I'm sorry if I caused any confusion, but I am not buying another car. I'm still getting used to driving my 911 !

I was just discussing LX 5.0 with a friend the other day, and somehow the idea of the Miata came up.
(Both cars where the stereotypical driver's reputation precedes any actual objective assessment of the car itself)
Which got me to wondering about the truth behind those cars as well.

I think they all have their place but I know two guys that bought the 2015 Z07 and it's one hellovacar

The S2k must not be too slow. I think their 0-60 was around 5.0 and their top speed was around 155. They'll keep up with a 3.2L 911 unless it's been modified.

Yep, the sunvisors were an issue for me until I removed some of the foam from my seat bottoms in my miatas. The miata was pretty good on the street and you could have a fair amount of fun at mostly legal speeds.

I'm not sure what 911 you've got. I used to have an '88 targa. The miata with a slightly stiffer than stock suspension and grippy tires was for me pretty close to the driving experience of my old 911 (albeit much, much slower).


Oh yeah. I really enjoyed driving my old '97 miata, but my '04 turbo did everything that the other did, but better. It was faster, handled better and was more comfortable.

I eventually stepped up to an '08 Boxster S. This is another huge step up from the turbo miata.

My last several cars were an '88 911 targa, followed by a slightly modified '97 miata (handling mods), a mostly stock '04 turbo miata and now an '08 Boxster S. The Boxster is a fantastic car. The old '88 911 was an equally fantastic car, but more raw and quirky than the Boxster. The turbo miata was a ton of fun and was like the boxster to the 911, more capable and comfy. The early miata (with the upgraded suspension and wheels and tires) was more like the old 911, more raw and quirky, but not as raw or as quirky as the old 911.

I got out of the Porsche initially for financial reasons, for that reason the miata was the perfect replacement. 85-90% of the fun at 50%, or much less these days, of the cost.

I love fast cars as much as the next guy, I just can't handle the trouble they can bring on the street. Driving slow cars fast makes for lots of trouble free fun. A Miata might be my next car to fit that need.
C5 and newer Corvette's are extremely capable cars. I just don't think I'm adult enough to own and drive one. This applies to modern Porsche's as well.

Miatas handle a lot like a 944. The early ones are a bit flexy, but the aftermarket support is awesome. S2000s are twitchy at the limit. Late model Corvettes are serious cars. Late model Mustangs are surprisingly agile, but they get a lot of complaints for steering feel. They hook up at autocross though.

I have a supercharged 1.6 Miata. I take it out for any kind of errand, where I often won't take out the 911 if I'm not going to have a good warmup period. The supercharged engine will easily keep up with a stock SC, and pulls like a train to 7000 +. Not much there past 100 or so, but that would be my street limit in any case.

I find that I like the Miata a lot more than I thought I would. It has the feel of a nice Swiss watch movement in a cheap body, and it has superb chassis balance. It has a raw feel like an early 911, but after a while you realize that the raw feel of a 911 is communicative of how it likes to be driven, and the raw feel of the Miata is just body flex and cheap shocks, both easily fixed.

With appropriate upgrades, Miatas are more like a scalpel, and like a clean driving style, no tail out, just even drift. They like that in any guise, but are more dramatic to throw around in stock form, and this equates to a lively sporty feel at any speed. Air cooled 911s have to be driven correctly to get the best out of them, and tell you so, and this makes them more engaging. They like proper corner set up and approach, where the Miata can be trailed in, chucked in or whatever, and it will still be your friend without much protest. They have a carefree, unburstable feeling of Japanese reliability and serviceability that makes them a fun, cheap date.

Truth be told, If I had gotten the blown Miata before I ever drove a 911 by the scruff of the neck, I wouldn't own a 911 today. But I didn't. They are fun like candy and ice cream, where a good 911 is fun like cocaine and heroin in a speedball. This may be why people like the S2000, because they definitely give you the feeling that they could turn and bite you at the limit. Well set up, a Miata can give you some serious cornering and speed. A well set up 911 however rewards excellence and provides constant feedback all the way from the autostrada to the racetrack. The Miata will let you do things. The 911 will let you do things and feel like Vic Elford if you get it right.

Bottom line, If you don't need a car set up like the Hammer of the Gods, a Miata might do it for you. Modern Corvettes fall into that HotG category, BTW.

I bought my Miata already supercharged for 7000 dollars in 08. Did the timing belt and tune up, and I am on my second set of tires. With oil changes, my total investment is still around 8K. I would not hesitate to drive it from coast to coast tomorrow, and I would have AC the whole way if I wanted it.

Locally there is a 260hp turbo charged Miata that SCCA races in the same class as Z06 Vettes and does very well. The limiting factor in a 30 minute race was the smaller tires on the Miata over heat and give up before the larger tires on the Vette.

As an every day driver in city traffic I need torque to move the car.
The S2000 is fast but it has to be reved to 9k or so to be fast.
The old Vette pulls from 1800 rpm in traffic on the freeway.
On track here's a nice S2000 with some front and rear aero as seen from my C5 Z06.
https://youtu.be/ixENUntyMRk?t=6m8s

DanielDudley, that was a fun read. Thanks.

I imagine that an S2000 would get old driving stoplight to stoplight around town. My RX8 was similar in regards to no torque down low, you had to always keep the engine wrapped up to get any power out of it.

Yes, for driving in heavy traffic or stop and go traffic, a torque monster will be easier to drive than a high revving low torque vehicle, but then so is an automatic trans. Fortunately, my first miata that wasn't a turbo had the larger motor and was pretty torquey for a small, light weight 4 cyl vehicle. I've also been lucky in that my commute has almost always been at times that were outside of the main rush hour traffic by a couple of hours so I've managed to avoid the worst of the traffic.

If you're buying a sports car that you're going to have to drive in heavy traffic, then you'll probably have to adjust your criteria to something different than if you would never or rarely get caught in heavy traffic.

I've driven multiple generations of Miata and always thought they had plenty of torque to feel quick around town.

I've always felt they were zippy enough up to 60-70 for any driving, but I don't have much seat time in the really early 1.6L cars. I understand they had less power, but were more rev happy and were the lightest weight, so I would assume they would be adequate. I don't remember thinking they felt slow, and that's something that makes an impression on me, when a car feels like it won't get out of its own way.

wow, the s2000's really are spendy. they want 12K+ for an S2000 with 130K+ miles, pitted paint, and the fast/furious treatment. i had no idea.

Miata and 911 are soooo different at ax. 911 spoils you with power out of turns where miata leaves you looking impotent if you drive it in the same way.

I test drove a 2nd gen Miata this week.
I now what they mean by "aggressively drive it, but still be under the speed limit."

The car just felt light. Hood and doors were light as a feather.

This is not a floaty luxo car for women or people who drink coffee on their morning commute.
The steering was like the 911 steering: very tight and responsive.
Suspension was firm. I bet you aggressively carve turns with this car.
Exhaust wasn't exactly silent.

The gear shift was perfect.
Blows away the 915 shifter.
Zero play. Very short throw.
The stick snapped hard back to center like a rock.

At only 140 HP, a very noticeable the lack of power compared to the 911. Is this what a 150HP 944 feels like?
I was downshifting to keep the RPM's above 3000, which helped make the car more responsive.
But, Since it was a test drive of someone else's car, I never got it above 4000rpm. So I am sure there was HP left on the table. I think redline on the gauge was like 7200rpm peak HP.
Like a 911 (and unlike a V8), you need to be in the right gear to optimize performance.
And this makes driving this car more engaging, which is the whole point of not driving an automatic Camry, right?

This^

Three friends have purchased a Miata after driving mine. A real eye-opener of how fun driving can be.

Took mine to Mt. Rainier twice in the last few days. Absolutely the perfect car for the twisty roads, top off for an unobstructed view of the scenery.
Trunk is big enough (barely) for a couple day packs and hiking shoes.

Worthless tidbit about Mt. Rainier: You can coast from the Paradise parking lot, fourteen miles, all the way past Longmire, to Kautz Creek. I did this a few years ago in the 912E, engine off, all 14 miles. Went around some corners pretty fast to maintain momentum, but its downhill all the way.

If your only complaint about the Miata is power, they are easy to find supercharged or turbocharged for not much money. Problem solved!

The engine block is iron. Bulletproof. Same block used in Mazda's trucks.

Why didn't they use an aluminum block to save weight? The designers knew that getting the top brass to green-light a diminutive two-seat convertible sports car for production was going to be difficult, (the MG was long gone, and many thought there was no market for this type of car) and costs had to be very tightly controlled.
Designing and manufacturing an entirely new engine for the limited production numbers anticipated would have blown the budget, and therefore, the entire project out the door. The solution was to modify the existing truck engine with dual overhead cams.

Had they known how wildly successful the Miata would become, maybe they would have sprung for an aluminum engine. Good thing they didn't, for all the guys bolting superchargers and turbochargers to them without any internal modifications.

The hoods on all miatas (definitely the 1st and 2nd gen, but I think the 3rd gen too) are made of aluminum.

Right, if you want it to be responsive, you need to keep the revs in the sweet range. You can short shift if are just cruising.

Now take that and x3=S2000. a little more high strung

Since it was a test drive of someone else's car, I never got it above 4000rpm
So I am sure there was HP left on the table.
I think redline on the gauge was like 7200rpm peak HP.

After driving my brother's 2nd gen Miata he said "that is the highest this car has ever been revved." How sad is that? He owned the car for years and never hit the rev-limiter? I drove it for 10 minutes and found it right off.

Agree with above. Low torque cars need to be would up a little bit.

Was that the miata? Wow, yeah, you may have well just been idling the thing around.

Yeah, very sad. Those are the folks that create and hold up traffic and drive me bonkers. It's very sad for a spirited car to be wasted.

The S2000 is more high strung but not sure if its worth two time more in price. I never kept up with the pricing, but people are saying good one are in the 15000 range and the 2nd gen Miata is, around 8k? Miata is hard to beat for that kinda of bucks

The basic Miata door cards remind me of the 911 RS door cards that lots of people seem to lust after.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1278875546.jpg http://i58.tinypic.com/2yywh12.jpg

seems you can make the new Camaro push.
https://youtu.be/M34f1-A_NFA