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-   -   Why does Boxster get a lukewarm reception? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/866623-why-does-boxster-get-lukewarm-reception.html)

WPOZZZ 06-02-2016 07:10 PM

I love my 987.1 Boxster! I drive it more than the other P cars. The dog is my co-pilot and he loves it, too!

Jeff Higgins 06-02-2016 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak (Post 9145669)
Boxster's have oiling problems when raced hard. Correctable. (Don't know the year range and may have been mentioned previously)

Their engines are not the same as your 911. Oddball steps and tools are required to take apart and put back together. But, hey, my 81 requires a 37MM crows-foot wrench to get into, a 67 Chevy does not.

I drove one 98 Boxster in a little bit of anger. Every bit as fun as my 81. I would love to drive an early 2000's Boxster S. Betting a big step change.

Beyond that I have coin limitations.

My owners' manual cautions against running it on slicks on a race track (2003 Boxster "S") because of the oil starvation problem. Like you say, easily fixed. If were going to see much track use, but it's not, at least for now. I promised my wife I wouldn't "ruin" it as I have my pretty thoroughly track-prepped '72 911...

Spec Boxster looks like it might be a "relatively inexpensive" way to go racing. Cheaper than Spec 911, now that the price of eligible cars has climbed so high. More dignity than spec Miata, too... :D

Bob Kontak 06-02-2016 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 9145728)
More dignity than spec Miata, too... :D

Pal has a several year old GT3 Cup. Bought it used.

Was helping him at the track last weekend at VIR. Mainly lugging tires and drinking his beer. Oh, and I plugged in his cool shirt connections.:D

Anyhoo, he has a Miata "set up" for racing. Don't know the depth of the car's prep. It was raining Sunday morning. He has beautiful rain tires for the 911 but he is still only a fairly-experienced pup. Never rain driving.

He said "Eff it, I need to first learn in the Pinata how to drive in the rain".

CJFusco 06-03-2016 01:57 AM

My garage last night. I could get used to the whole "two Porsches" thing... SmileWavy

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1464947825.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1464947850.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1464947873.jpg

sugarwood 06-03-2016 02:37 PM

I love seeing CJ's Cayman after the repair. Glad you saved it. Great looking car.

gduke2010 06-03-2016 03:59 PM

Haven't seen that commercial in a while. It's my favorite Porsche commercial. Thanks for posting it.

CJFusco 06-03-2016 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarwood (Post 9146749)
I love seeing CJ's Cayman after the repair. Glad you saved it. Great looking car.

Thanks! I'm very happy with the job done by Automotive Associates; it's easy to see why they're a top-rated Porsche shop.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1464999734.jpg

recycled sixtie 06-03-2016 05:53 PM

The Cayman has great styling. The early Boxsters not so much.:)

J-Mac 06-03-2016 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie (Post 9146993)
The Cayman has great styling. The early Boxsters not so much.:)

Well Boxsters were designed 20+ years ago..They were quite the thing in '97:)

black_falcon 06-03-2016 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie (Post 9146993)
The Cayman has great styling. The early Boxsters not so much.:)

Actually I think the early Boxster's have aged very well and are the best design of the lot (although the 981 is growing on me). It's a design that doesn't photograph well, but is pretty striking in real life. Looks best with the top down and in polar silver with red leather.

CJFusco 06-04-2016 04:12 AM

Yeah, I disagree as well: I think that the 986 Boxster is actually the most handsome of the lot. The evidence that they were a big deal in 1997 is that pretty much everyone copied them! As soon as the Boxster Concept hit the show circuit, BMW and Mercedes rushed into production with its competitors (I think it was a couple of years before Audi joined the fray). I remember the knock on the Z3 and the SLK when they were first released was that the cars didn't feel completely developed, and the speculation was that they were rushed into production to compete with the Boxster. Happily for them, the Z4 and the 2nd gen SLK became much better cars.

It's ironic that the knock you hear on 996s is that they're ugly because they have Boxster headlights; I think that the Boxster is much, much better-looking than the 996.1, which looks sorta frumpy from most angles.

To me, the 987 Boxster looks much more bland than the 986, almost as though they were trying to play it safe with the design and ended up making a generic-looking car. It's not a bad-looking car, mind you, it just looks sorta "in-between"; for some reason, the 987 design looks better on the Cayman. The 981 is certainly striking-looking, but I don't love how big they're getting. I guess it's just the way of the world, considering that the newest Mini Cooper is the size of 20 years ago's small SUV.

onewhippedpuppy 06-04-2016 04:27 AM

I totally agree that the 986.1 has aged very well, and that the 987 looks better in Cayman style. The 987 Boxster lost the rear hips but they became more pronounced on the Cayman, which is a damn good looking car.

recycled sixtie 06-04-2016 04:30 AM

The Cayman and the 911 look better as coupes. I find the convertibles are not as pleasing to the eye particularly with the top up. Each one to their own though. When I first bought my 2001 Boxster I was happy to get a Porsche at a reasonable price.

Since I have owned my 2013 PRHT Miata in January I have had the top down once just to see what it felt like. I would consider a Cayman the next time round because they have the styling spot on.:)

CJFusco 06-04-2016 04:45 AM

I should add that the Boxster Spyder does take things to the next level, though; very desirable car.

I even swapped out my side vents ("gills") for the much-cleaner (and complimentary colors for my car) Boxster Spyder units. Aesthetically, it's made a huge difference, IMHO.

quaz 06-04-2016 05:02 AM

I will jump into this discussion. As a former hotrod early 911 owner I am on the Boxster bandwagon now. After selling my 911 I was looking for either a 996 or 997 that was unique. Problem is 99% of them are black or silver and basically bland. If you happen to find a well optioned car in an actual color move fast because they don't seem to last long. I stumbled on this 2000 Boxster S and my wife and I fell in love with it. After going for a ride in it and looking it over it took me about 10 minutes to decide to buy it.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1465045169.jpg

onewhippedpuppy 06-04-2016 05:20 AM

Boxster Spyder is a bucket list car for me, it is near the top of my favorite Porsche list.

Kevin, I love the look of the color matched centers! Was that factory?

quaz 06-04-2016 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 9147316)
Kevin, I love the look of the color matched centers! Was that factory?

The Areo kit and wheels were factory ordered just as you see the car. Only thing I have done to it is put an exhaust on it. I would lie and say I am not going to do anything else to it, but that isn't me. However I don't think I am going to change the looks of the car at all.

Next up on my list of todos is clutch and IMSB. Just trying to decide if I am going to do it myself or job it out.

billh1963 06-04-2016 08:06 AM

Another convert here. I used to look down on the Boxster. Now, I own two of them along with my four air cooled 911's and three 914's

Where else can you get so much Porsche sports car for so little money?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1465056369.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1465056397.jpg

masraum 06-05-2016 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJFusco (Post 9147294)
I should add that the Boxster Spyder does take things to the next level, though; very desirable car.

I even swapped out my side vents ("gills") for the much-cleaner (and complimentary colors for my car) Boxster Spyder units. Aesthetically, it's made a huge difference, IMHO.

So is the Spyder side vent a direct bolt in swap for the vent on our cars? I've got an '08 Boxster S. The spyder version is just a screen, right? Have you got pics of it on your car?

How do you like the plenum and throttle body mod?

CJFusco 06-06-2016 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum (Post 9148863)
So is the Spyder side vent a direct bolt in swap for the vent on our cars? I've got an '08 Boxster S. The spyder version is just a screen, right? Have you got pics of it on your car?

How do you like the plenum and throttle body mod?

The Spyder vent is a direct swap for the stock unit in the Boxster and Cayman, but the mounting frame that goes on the "inside" of the vent is different. The correct frame comes in the kit that you can get from Suncoast. Suncoast Porsche Parts & Accessories Side Grille Set - Boxster Spyder

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1465221366.jpg

The plenum/TB upgrade is great. It's tough to say how much impact they alone had on the performance of the car, because all of the upgrades (plenum, TB, exhaust, tune) all work in tandem to make the car more responsive. Much better mid-range torque, much more direct throttle response, and I'm sure a lot more peak HP. The biggest difference in terms of performance was definitely the exhaust upgrade, followed by the tune... but whatever you plan on doing, do the tune last so that all of the upgrades are considered when the tune is programmed. This is the order I would do the upgrades:

1) Exhaust/headers
2) Plenum/TB
3) Tune.

The car is MUCH faster and more fun to drive after tackling these upgrades. It just pulls harder from low RPM and that Fabspeed exhaust note is intoxicating.

rusnak 06-06-2016 10:22 AM

^ I understand the concept that the systems work together, etc.

But what do you mean by "tune" in terms of a performance upgrade? That seems like just normal maintenance.

I also have to say, as a lifelong aircooled guy, I'm not comfortable calling snap in plastic parts anything other than a cosmetic modification.

DanielDudley 06-06-2016 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusnak (Post 9149776)
^ I understand the concept that the systems work together, etc.

But what do you mean by "tune" in terms of a performance upgrade? That seems like just normal maintenance.

I also have to say, as a lifelong aircooled guy, I'm not comfortable calling snap in plastic parts anything other than a cosmetic modification.

The TB that he was referring to was a larger throttle body to go with the intake. The tune he is referring to is a remap of the electronic command unit that sets the ignition timing and the fuel map. More air, more fuel, and more aggressive timing advance curve equals more power and responsiveness.

It's the equivalent of ''chipping'' your 911 and converting your MAF

masraum 06-06-2016 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusnak (Post 9149776)
^ I understand the concept that the systems work together, etc.

But what do you mean by "tune" in terms of a performance upgrade? That seems like just normal maintenance.

The engine management is computer controlled. When he says tune, he's talking about reprogramming the chip. Imagine you had an early 911 with webbers. You then rebuilt the motor with SSIs, higher compression and hotter cams. When you put it all back together, you'd have to change the jetting (or whatever you change on a Webber) to go with the new parts. He's talking about getting the ECU tuned to match the improved flow (intake and exhaust) through the engine.

Quote:

I also have to say, as a lifelong aircooled guy, I'm not comfortable calling snap in plastic parts anything other than a cosmetic modification.
Correct, cosmetic, but hey, sometimes cosmetic mods are nice and a nice way to set your car apart from all of the others.

masraum 06-06-2016 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJFusco (Post 9149364)
The Spyder vent is a direct swap for the stock unit in the Boxster and Cayman, but the mounting frame that goes on the "inside" of the vent is different. The correct frame comes in the kit that you can get from Suncoast. Suncoast Porsche Parts & Accessories Side Grille Set - Boxster Spyder

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1465221366.jpg

The plenum/TB upgrade is great. It's tough to say how much impact they alone had on the performance of the car, because all of the upgrades (plenum, TB, exhaust, tune) all work in tandem to make the car more responsive. Much better mid-range torque, much more direct throttle response, and I'm sure a lot more peak HP. The biggest difference in terms of performance was definitely the exhaust upgrade, followed by the tune... but whatever you plan on doing, do the tune last so that all of the upgrades are considered when the tune is programmed. This is the order I would do the upgrades:

1) Exhaust/headers
2) Plenum/TB
3) Tune.

The car is MUCH faster and more fun to drive after tackling these upgrades. It just pulls harder from low RPM and that Fabspeed exhaust note is intoxicating.

Nice, thanks for the response. Wow, those side vents aren't cheap, but then I didn't really expect them to be, especially since they are Porsche parts and not some knock-off. I'd rather, and probably some day will get those vents.

That sounds good. I think I saw something about using the TB and Plenum from a Spyder on a site the other day too. Same idea as the GT3 TB and plenum mod that you did, but slightly different parts. Yeah, I'd be happy to do the performance upgrades too, but I'm still under CPO warranty for a bit and not looking to spend that much right now. I'd also really love a torque biasing diff. If only I had a bunch of extra money just laying around.

CJFusco 06-07-2016 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum (Post 9150355)
Nice, thanks for the response. Wow, those side vents aren't cheap, but then I didn't really expect them to be, especially since they are Porsche parts and not some knock-off. I'd rather, and probably some day will get those vents.

That sounds good. I think I saw something about using the TB and Plenum from a Spyder on a site the other day too. Same idea as the GT3 TB and plenum mod that you did, but slightly different parts. Yeah, I'd be happy to do the performance upgrades too, but I'm still under CPO warranty for a bit and not looking to spend that much right now. I'd also really love a torque biasing diff. If only I had a bunch of extra money just laying around.

Yeah, I looked for a suitable (cheaper) alternative to the side vents for a long time, but just didn't like the look of the other aftermarket options. I ended up getting a gift certificate to Suncoast and figured that that would help justify/offset the cost a little bit. I'm glad I did.

Rusnak, sorry -- I should have been more clear; I'm used to posting about mods over at Planet9, where all of the users already have Boxsters or Caymans and are used to the vernacular. Yes, by TB I mean "throttle body" -- the opening for the IPD plenum is 82mm, larger than the stock 987 opening. It is designed to work with a 997 GT3 throttle body.

And the "tune" is exactly what the others describe -- it's like "chipping" a 1980s-90s car, or putting more aggressive jets/carbs on an older car. Bolt-on mods alone won't significantly improve the performance of a 987 because the car's computer will always deliver the same air-fuel mixture as long as the software remains stock. You might get a little bit more throttle response out of bolt-on mods, but to optimize their impact, you need an ECU tune. Since everything is managed by an onboard computer these days, when you purchase a "tune," the company sends you an OBD port adapter and software. You load the software up to your laptop and connect it to your car's OBD port. The program then reads the file from your stock computer, which you send to the tuning company with a list of your bolt-on mods. The tuner then builds a "map" in the software that takes into account your mods and optimizes the air-fuel mixture, timing, etc., to get more performance out of the car. You then reconnect your laptop to the car, upload the new software map, and bingo! You get a much smoother and stronger torque curve as well as considerably higher peak HP. It really does make a pretty huge difference.

rusnak 06-07-2016 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielDudley (Post 9150221)
The TB that he was referring to was a larger throttle body to go with the intake. The tune he is referring to is a remap of the electronic command unit that sets the ignition timing and the fuel map. More air, more fuel, and more aggressive timing advance curve equals more power and responsiveness.

It's the equivalent of ''chipping'' your 911 and converting your MAF

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJFusco (Post 9150585)
Yeah, I looked for a suitable (cheaper) alternative to the side vents for a long time, but just didn't like the look of the other aftermarket options. I ended up getting a gift certificate to Suncoast and figured that that would help justify/offset the cost a little bit. I'm glad I did.

Rusnak, sorry -- I should have been more clear; I'm used to posting about mods over at Planet9, where all of the users already have Boxsters or Caymans and are used to the vernacular. Yes, by TB I mean "throttle body" -- the opening for the IPD plenum is 82mm, larger than the stock 987 opening. It is designed to work with a 997 GT3 throttle body.

And the "tune" is exactly what the others describe -- it's like "chipping" a 1980s-90s car, or putting more aggressive jets/carbs on an older car. Bolt-on mods alone won't significantly improve the performance of a 987 because the car's computer will always deliver the same air-fuel mixture as long as the software remains stock. You might get a little bit more throttle response out of bolt-on mods, but to optimize their impact, you need an ECU tune. Since everything is managed by an onboard computer these days, when you purchase a "tune," the company sends you an OBD port adapter and software. You load the software up to your laptop and connect it to your car's OBD port. The program then reads the file from your stock computer, which you send to the tuning company with a list of your bolt-on mods. The tuner then builds a "map" in the software that takes into account your mods and optimizes the air-fuel mixture, timing, etc., to get more performance out of the car. You then reconnect your laptop to the car, upload the new software map, and bingo! You get a much smoother and stronger torque curve as well as considerably higher peak HP. It really does make a pretty huge difference.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me.

I've been looking at this Porsche Diagnostic Store | Durametric Software Products for Sale

It's to read trouble codes and reset the service light. What do you guys use for that?

rusnak 06-07-2016 09:34 AM

The one cosmetic mod (actually 2) that I did was to switch all of the interior lights and exterior halogens to LED. Now the lights are all LED and whatever the headlights are. They look like there might be two different types of lights in there. I'd love to switch them for HID but I need to find someone who's done that.

CJFusco 06-07-2016 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusnak (Post 9150975)
Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me.

I've been looking at this Porsche Diagnostic Store | Durametric Software Products for Sale

It's to read trouble codes and reset the service light. What do you guys use for that?

FYI, when you get an ECU tune, many of the tuner companies give you the capability to reset service lights and read error codes with the software that you buy for the tune. You just plug the OBD adapter right into your car and you can do those things via your laptop.
My recommendation is to kill two birds with one stone. I went with VividRacing, which Pelican member Sydney (porsche4life) works for; I'm sure he'd be happy to answer any more specific questions you might have about their products. They have awesome customer service, in my experience, and I am very happy with the tune.

onewhippedpuppy 06-07-2016 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusnak (Post 9150975)
Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me.

I've been looking at this Porsche Diagnostic Store | Durametric Software Products for Sale

It's to read trouble codes and reset the service light. What do you guys use for that?

Durametric is an awesome tool, highly recommended for anyone that owns a modern Porsche. It gives you diagnostic tools similar to the dealership PWIS and even allows basic coding. Totally worth it.

cairns 06-07-2016 01:43 PM

Love Durametric- couldn't imagine owning a newer Porsche without it.

masraum 06-07-2016 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 9151159)
Durametric is an awesome tool, highly recommended for anyone that owns a modern Porsche. It gives you diagnostic tools similar to the dealership PWIS and even allows basic coding. Totally worth it.

What do/can you do with it that makes it so invaluable? I assume it's really only useful when you have a problem (at which point, you're probably REALLY glad that you've got it).

Fein 79 06-07-2016 01:55 PM

Because they're ugly...

rusnak 06-07-2016 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cairns (Post 9151285)
Love Durametric- couldn't imagine owning a newer Porsche without it.

Yes, sort of like my Innovate LM-1 wideband O2 meter on the 3.2 911.

I think I need to get a PC laptop to go with it. I have an OBD II scanner, but it's limited in terms of what it can read. OTOH, the scanner cost more than the Durametric does.

Jeff Alton 06-07-2016 09:04 PM

Lots of good comments on this thread.

We have a 2003 2.7 Boxster as a loaner car and are building a 2002 3.2S race car. The 2.7 car is fun to drive. Most 996/997 owners who use it say "can't believe how fun it is" or "Its quicker than I expected". They are fun cars, but not for everyone.

Interesting too about the gender issues. I prefer our 997 S and 996 Turbo. My wife prefers our Cayman (soon to have a built 3.8). But we both enjoy driving the Boxster with the roof down.

CJFusco 06-08-2016 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 9151159)
Durametric is an awesome tool, highly recommended for anyone that owns a modern Porsche. It gives you diagnostic tools similar to the dealership PWIS and even allows basic coding. Totally worth it.

But again -- don't most software tuning programs contain the same abilities as the Durametric, at least in terms of resetting the service light and diagnosing error codes? I'm not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious.

onewhippedpuppy 06-08-2016 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJFusco (Post 9151887)
But again -- don't most software tuning programs contain the same abilities as the Durametric, at least in terms of resetting the service light and diagnosing error codes? I'm not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious.

It lets you look at a lot more stuff than even a good OBD reader. Cam deviation, which can be a sign of looming IMS failure. DME over-revs to see how a car is driven. Check engine hours and operating ranges. You can change basic coding for things like LED vs standard lights or a fixed vs power spoiler. Probably the nicest thing is for troubleshooting, you can control individual activation for things like fans, spoiler, HVAC controls, etc. It's most of what you can do with a PWIS.

CJFusco 06-08-2016 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 9152008)
It lets you look at a lot more stuff than even a good OBD reader. Cam deviation, which can be a sign of looming IMS failure. DME over-revs to see how a car is driven. Check engine hours and operating ranges. You can change basic coding for things like LED vs standard lights or a fixed vs power spoiler. Probably the nicest thing is for troubleshooting, you can control individual activation for things like fans, spoiler, HVAC controls, etc. It's most of what you can do with a PWIS.

Oh wow. Thank you for the information; this sounds amazing. I might have to look into picking one up; I'm especially intrigued by cam deviation...

Are all these reading capabilities available on the "Enthusiast Kit"? Pricing actually isn't too bad.

porsche4life 06-08-2016 06:04 AM

Matt hit it perfectly. Our cable will read the standard codes, durametric is way more in depth for troubleshooting.


And yes if you are interested in ECU tuning, pm me!

masraum 06-08-2016 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJFusco (Post 9149364)
The Spyder vent is a direct swap for the stock unit in the Boxster and Cayman, but the mounting frame that goes on the "inside" of the vent is different. The correct frame comes in the kit that you can get from Suncoast. Suncoast Porsche Parts & Accessories Side Grille Set - Boxster Spyder

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1465221366.jpg

So I assume the whole desnorkeling process is completely independent of the Spyder Vent insert process. You could potentially do both or either.

How long does it take to do and undo the desnorkel mod? It looks like it's about 10-15 mins if that unless you are going to put a mesh in place. Of course, with the Spyder vent insert, I wouldn't think the mesh would be necessary.

OK, I've also looked at a couple of explanations of the desnorkel process, and it seems there is a huge restrictor plate that is designed to prevent item intrusion (ie cigarette butts) and an actual snorkel. Is the goal to actually desnorkel or deplate? I would think the snorkel would be good, but the plate would be bad.

masraum 06-08-2016 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJFusco (Post 9149364)
The car is MUCH faster and more fun to drive after tackling these upgrades. It just pulls harder from low RPM and that Fabspeed exhaust note is intoxicating.

I've got the factory sport exhaust. I really like how I can drive my car in quiet mode or loud mode as the mood suits. (actually, I can't control the exhaust independently because I have Sport-Chrono, so to get the louder exhaust, I have to go to sport mode which gives me the remapped throttle) I mostly drive in quiet mode with the missus, but not always. I usually go to loud mode when in a busy parking lot. Keeps cars and pedestrians with integrated smart phone more alert on a quick throttle blip. If I see a cop, I may go into quiet mode if I'm not already. The sound in quiet mode is good. The sound in loud mode is great. I like the ability to switch back and forth at will.

Mods that I'd like to do are TB and plenum with a tune, and torque biasing diff. I find that at times I get some wheel spin that I don't like. On my previous car, a factory turbo miata, I had a torque biasing diff, and I liked what seemed like a bit more predictable traction and predictable behavior with it. At least now that we are in the summer months, I have more traction than when it's cold out.

I factory short shift kit might be nice too. The Spyder vents would also be something that I'd consider as well as some 18" wheels if they were lighter than my 19".


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