Do I Need a Tractor?
 

I recently bought a new house that sits on 2.5 acres. Maybe .8 acres of grass, a long asphalt driveway and a large portion of un-landscaped trees and underbrush. There are hundreds of hardwoods and pine trees and the lot borders are created by two creeks that meet in a V shape. The mowing isn't a big deal but I would love to tame some of the underbrush with a bush hog on a regular basis and a PTO powered limb chipper would be very handy. I'm looking at used sub-compact tractors with a 3 point hitch, PTO, and 4wd since there are some decent slopes near the creeks.

This is the lot.
http://i.imgur.com/ODnC1xE.png

Is a tractor one of those things you wondered how you lived without it once you get it?

Something like this little Kubota looks interesting.

http://img.machinio.com/tkb/1542911.jpg

A year or two ago, I was on here asking questions about tractors. I wanted one, and wondered if I could legitimately say I "needed" one.

I bought one, and I really enjoy puttering around on it. I use a finish mower on our 2 ac of grass. And I use a brush mower on the .5 ac of brushy area. I still use a riding mower around the house.

My father has about 2 ac, and he has a tractor about the same size as the one in your picture. When he was in his 40s, it got a LOT of use. When he hit his mid 50s, I saw him using it less and less. Now that he has hit 70, it mostly just sits in the yard, maybe getting used 6 or 7 times a year.

How old are you? Do you feel up to really using the tractor as a tractor, or is it just going to be a fancy lawnmower? (like mine)

Can you distinguish between "Need", and "want". Want is more important IMHO. I don't "need" a Porsche or a Rolex or a lot of other things in life.

I think you justified getting one when you said you wanted to tame some of the underbrush on a regular basis. Renting a chipper when you need one might be something to consider. That BX2200 is a great tractor, but there are others that will do the job. Here eliminating things like underbrush/brush are prudent in terms of fire prevention. A tractor that size will be able to maneuver in & out of reasonably tight areas. I have two tractors. One is an L frame Kubota with a loader which is indispensable for digging, moving dirt, brush, hauling, lifting, scraping, pushing and any other creative ways I can think of using it. I have a box scraper, landscape rake, a blade, and rear forks among other things. I love it because it makes short work of things around here. I bought mine used with 500 hours on it for a lot less than a new one. You might check out used ones. Lots of time you can get them with accessories & implements for a lot less than buying new. There are lots of people who buy them, don't use them & sell them at a good discount. I'm slightly older than cashflyer's dad & still love to get on mine. Don't know if it snows where you live enough to use it for clearing the driveway & other places, but it would be great for that too.

You need 20 hp to run a small bush hog. I think you'll be happier with a bigger machine. I have a Kubota 2320 on my 2.5 acres and I can't imagine being without it. I thought it was an extravagance when bought it new 5 year ago for $14k with a front end loader, but has been worth every penny.

That little lawn "tractor" is for suburban lots. You need a real tractor. Diesel. With P.T.O. and a 3-point hitch. Add remote hydraulics and now you're talking.

You don't "NEED" one, you could rent a few times per year and do your lawn with a nice riding mower.......However, If you buy right, it will last a lifetime and you can always get your money back when you sell.....Don't buy too small; better a lightly used larger one than an new that is 20 HP or less.....

Last years I bought a JD 2240 (27 HP) with bucket and back blade for $10,500.....975 hours and well taken care of.......I bought it mainly for snow removal in our neighborbhood, but use all the time for hauling dirt, grading, clearing brush, etc......A chain on the bucket makes for a very handy lift. JD Diesel just sips fuel.

If you can afford it and have a place to store it, do it.....

I'll be 39 this year so I should have a few tractor years left in me.

Of course there is some want mixed in with the need. Who doesn't want a tractor?

That Kubota BX2200 is a 3 cylinder 18hp diesel with center and rear PTO, 3 point hitch, and front and rear hydraulics. It is small but it would help when weaving in and out of trees.

Here is one with some more stuff hanging off of it.

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1189/5...4eb55914_z.jpg

My small tractor is a 16 hp. Kubota. I don't know how old it is, probably '80s. I only use if for towing, hauling, tilling, & some other things. I think it probably has a million hours on it, but it's one of the most dependable machines I've owned. Bob's advice is good about getting something with more hp. I would at least look at 22 hp., with 25 being maybe the best for your application. There are B frame tractors in that range. Unless you do a lot of digging & trenching, I don't think there is a lot of advantage to a back hoe. If you need one, you'd most likely need more power and size than the one on the BX2200 (reach, rocks, roots, etc.). You will find a loader to be the best at a wide range of jobs, and bigger & heftier is better up to a point. Like wdfifteen said, later on you'll think it's worth every penny you spent on it.

That little backhoe is about as useful as a teaspoon. We had one on a 30hp tractor and it wasn't much good either.

Well if you look at this logically.....a tractor is way too much for just 2 acres. Its better to hire out or if you want , rent the heavy equipment, then you need a truck and trailer to haul it. Once you do all the jobs you want it will be way too much for just cutting the lawn, plus a bigger tire with cleats can mess up the lawn. I came to this reality about 2 years ago when I bought my place. I have 10 acres and rarely use my tractor. Bought a 50" Toro mower. Use it 99% of the time. All of my projects that I needed to do are done. With the money I spent on it and associated stuff you need when you get a tractor, I could have saved a bunch of money by just hiring someone to do those jobs.

A tractor is a great multi purpose tool. I would be inclined to buy a good used one at a nice price. Then in the future if you decide you don't really need it you can get your money back. I love the power takeoffs (driveshaft that comes out the back of a tractor) that can run all sorts of things like large sized sawbenches, your mower, post hole diggers...

I bought a used Kubota 2320 with a loader and backhoe for doing maintenance around my 13.5 acre property in Bucks County, PA. Its been incredibly handy to have. It will take me years to run out of chores for this machine. I have a smaller tractor for mowing. Use the Kubota to maintain drainage trenches around the property, clear trails, and clear brush, along with hauling debris or whatever.

Before
http://asbury.smugmug.com/Other/Back...18332631-L.jpg
http://asbury.smugmug.com/Other/Back...18334424-L.jpg

After
http://asbury.smugmug.com/Other/Back...18381214-L.jpg

Picked this up for 7500 with 130 hours on it.
Mostly use it for trail maintenance, but it'll do ANYTHING.
Here she's moving rock around for the fire pit.
No regrets buying, has been an awesome toy/tool.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1432551843.jpg

I'm gonna take a slightly different angle on this-

One interesting thing I've seen on the internet tractor forums is a piece of advice which states you should buy the tractor for what you are going to 99% primarily use it for- which generally means people need a lot less tractor than they think. For example, many people would write "I'm going to clear such and such piece of land, then maintain/mow it, what do I need?"

I would think, being tractor forums with a bunch of burly tractor guys, they'd say "GO BIG", but they rarely ever did. Almost always the tractor gurus stated to rent/hire out the clearing stuff, and buy the smallest tractor necessary to maintain what is now cleared. Many of them would even say to stick with garden tractors.

I think if you have a tractor with a rear pto and is powerful enough to run a bush hog without getting bogged down, you are good to go.

I've got 4-5 acres and a john deere x728, which is basically a glorified lawnmower. It's got a 3 point hitch, 66 inch deck, and I've got a rear blade, box blade, 72 inch rake, , rear scoop bucket (poor man's front bucket), and tow behind 62 inch offset mower (That's a 128 inch finish cut swath folks!).

It doesn't have a rear PTO (one is available but I am too cheap to spring for it)and I miss that alot. I also wish I had a mini backhoe on the back like that kubota. For finish mowing around trees and flowerbeds, and the weekly mowing rituals, the smaller size can't be beat. It works well for my property, and now that it is mostly cleared, I am 98% mowing with it, and using the rear scoop for mulch spreading.

I'm not advocating anything that small, but it has worked well for me. I bought it primarily for it's low center of gravity/manueverability for mowing off camber sections of yard.

It sounds like after you've cleared your land to your liking, you will be primarily cutting/ bush hogging thicker sections, and I don't think that tractor you showed may be that far off. Like some of the other guy's said, it might be nice to have a little more HP, so it doesn't bog, but I like it's 4wd, rear pto, rear backhoe, and front bucket. Does it have a mower included? Don't forget to include the price of any implements you will need to buy in your budget/ final purchase decision.

Also, factor in where you are going to store all your implements. Do you have a garage or are they gonna sit in the woods or a field. That stuff adds up after a while. That backhoe, while cool, is going to be limited in what it can dig and is going to be doing a lot of sitting.

Finally, a large part of my yard is wooded, like yours. When I first moved here I bought a chipper/shredder and used it a lot. That got old quick for that much woods. I haven't used it for years. It is also loud for the neighbors. Check your burn laws- in the end I made a dedicated burn pile section in the yard (made it look like a happy fire pit for smores.etc)- but I have burned more stuff in it that you can image- and I am still behind on what needs to be cleaned up in terms of dead brush.

I'm 68 yo and have a 35 HP w/ bucket, forks, & chipper. Couldn't live w/o it.

willtel,
At least take a look at Frederick's Tractor in Hartselle, AL - specifically the Yanmar tractors (Yanmar). Delivery to Atlanta should not be an issue. When I was searching for a tractor I visited their refurbishing facility first and spoke with the owner - it is a very impressive operation. Although Yanmar is a Japanese-made tractor, their engines are ALL over (many of the John Deere tractors have Yanmar engines). From a price point perspective and usage factor, this may be a good option. I have a Yanmar F22D and absolutely love it!

As a side note, Tractorbynet has a very active Yanmar (old) forum that may be helpful.

I got bored and drummed up some pics of what a 72' inch rear rake looks like on a glorified lawnmower:D I think that's the same size rake jwasbury posted on his real tractor (maybe his is an 84?). With a rake you can go darn wide. With rear blades and boxes on a SCUT/CUT/full size tractor (whatever you end up with) don't go too wide, just enough to clear your rear track width. narrower is better.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1432558978.jpg
And here's a pic of a rear scoop on someone else's 728- I'm not pushing the 728 by any means (infact there are some good reasons not to get it), but I think it's cool what such a small gardentractor can get away with:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1432559012.jpg

Also think in terms of snow removal if applicable, you will want a good front blade for that driveway. Here's a self gratuitous pic of a snow blower I restored, but unless you get a lot of snow, most tractor forum guys say that once the novelty of the snowblower wears off, the blade is what they use the most. I have found that to be true.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1432559656.jpg

Also, that Kubota you posted a pic of in your original post has a fairly high center of balance. If you are on an incline like I am, consider getting wheel spacers to widen your track. I filled my tires with antifreeze and got wheel weights and put 1 inch spacers on the rear. Looks *****en and really stabilizes the tractor.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1432561527.jpg


This is the Kubota 2320 that I use. At 23 hp it's never run out of power for what I do, but it could be heavier. The loader has the power to lift 700 pounds, but when you lift a heavy load up the the height limit it gets tippy. I've been thinking of getting CaCl2 put in the tires since I first used the loader but haven't gotten around to it. I use it about every week for all kinds of stuff, moving trailers, turning compost, dragging logs out of the woods discing the garden, but I don't have a mower for it.
I got that John Deere disc for $20 this spring and it's another toy I can't believe I ever lived without.

Tractors are the coolest things.

I have three tractors, two MF CG 2300 I bought over ten years ago. I also have a 1970's era MF 240, a nice old rig, that came with the place.

I put about 110 hours a year on each of them. Doesn't sound like much but in terms of a 40 hour work week comparison, that's over eight weeks of riding. The little ones are each at about 1200 hours and the 240 is at 3K.

The smaller tractors are very capable as long as you don't over task them, slow and steady. They are diesel powered, water cooled with 70' center mower decks. They have three point attachments and a rear PTO. I mow at least four hours a week, every week.

I have a bunch tow behind attachments and one is set up for a front end loader, the best tool I own.

The big tractor is used for bush hogging and also has a front end loader for bigger jobs. I also have a set of scrapers, landscape rakes, etc for the larger tractor. I also have a big Echo shredder

So, over twenty years on the farm and I have learned a few things, mostly by error:cool::

- Nimble is as valuable as raw power. I use the small tractor front in loader almost exclusively for moving horse manure, moving mulch and compost (I have five large wind rows of "Stuff" cooking on the farm) simply because it is so easy to operate and it has tremendous agility.

- A small bush hog will work great for you.

- Center mount finishing mowers are great.

- Make sure you size the attachments to power at the PTO, not engine horse power. That Kubota is a lot of tractor for you and should easily handle every task and attachment.

My plan for the future is to get a commercial grade zero turn mower, get a back hoe for the 2300 that has the front end loader, and keep driving the other 2300 with the center line mower deck.

One last thing: Get a front end loader with the "grab" attachment. It makes picking piles of sticks and leaves and other detritus a fricking breeze.

There are some cool rigs in this thread!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1432565294.jpg

Good stuff

I only have an acre so mowing isnt my primary use but I've been thinking about these things for a while now too. Leaf collection with a vac trailer would be a big time saver but more so moving dirt/rocks/mulch.... around. I have a snowblower that does the job but I guess a blade might be useful. I thought about a Dingo or a small tractor with a loader, like an old b series kubota. Overkill for my needs but they are tanks and should last a long, long time.

I like the idea of renting a big machine for the once in a while stuff. Storing or operations a big machine can be a pain unless you have tons of space.

Here is a picture of the chipper/shredder. We were out this morning cleaning up the lines.

The thing eats belts. Frankly, it isn't worth the effort. One of those things better rented.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1432572252.jpg

Depends what you are doing. Not to dig a pool or septic system, but running pipe, leader drains, planting shrubs it would be fine.

Have a Woods backhoe on a 37hp Kubota. Works fine, biggest pain is swapping seats to move machine.

Keep in mind with a rear attachment, you need weight in the front, and visa-versa.

You probably don't need the hoe, I'd look for a used tractor with a brushog and front bucket.

30+- HP is nice, as is hydrostatic drive. Buy it right, keep it in good shape, and it will hold value.

Some comments above about a tractors center of gravity, specifically mentioned Kubota. Many have an adjustable width rear axle hub. Simple to do, plus you might be able to reverse the wheel dish. Wheel weights are a big plus. It was common years ago to fill the rear tires with fluid (calcium chloride + water) but you must use a brass or corrosion preventive valve.

Mowing-
Three point rear PTO rotary brush cutter for the rough stuff. Don't try using a 3 bladed finishing mower for the rough.

For an alternative combo / rough and finish mowing, consider a flail mower. Belly mount or rear 3 point. Uses a few hundred small blades that are pinned around a long horizontal main shaft. Centrifugal force makes the small blades fling but will safely give if hitting something really rough. The small blades are sacrificial.

Seahawk-
+1 on a zero turn mower. Huge time saver. The only neg is not having a comfortable ride. The short wheelbase and smaller diameter wheels can bring on fatigue.

Not sure if the design is still available, but the lower HP ZTR made by Dixon had a mechanical cone / clutch vs. an elaborate hydraulic drive. So simple and robust. But as mentioned, it was only on the smaller HP machines... thinking they had a Kawasaki air cooled engine.

I debated whether or not to get the backhoe on my Kubota B2320. It's been quite useful.

I hogged out a drainage trench across a part of my property that is an overgrown former pasture. Used it to dig out an old stump from a large shrub next to the house, used it (with thumb) to move and reset very large stones used as walkways around the house, plant shrubs. The wear and tear I've avoided to my back make it well worth the additional price of admission.

Transmission choice.

General purpose, mowing with not many obstructions a direct select gear / clutch is all you need.

Hydrostatic are time savers for maneuvers around obstacles and precise for slowly creeping in or around. Down side is they rob HP and they fail due to not keep them cool. Always a good idea to keep the finned housings and coolers clear of dirt build-up and grass clippings.

Shuttle trans. are my fave. Same gear selected for fwd. / reverse. They seem less troublesome than the hydro's too.

The calcium chloride + water really brings on the ballast but often more trouble than its worth. I don't who supplies Kubota with the rubber any more, (likely Japanese) but anyways the tubes valve might not be so good for it. Can't handle the corrosive nature and in a few years could have leaky mess including the rim rotting.

But even so and you go ahead with the fluid, consider running over something and a puncture. PITA

A stack of wheel weights might be a better option.

Lastly, there's also some who fill with small shot (non lead ;)

When I moved to a 5 acre farm (about 2 acres to mow) 21 years ago, I mowed it with a John Deere 216 with a 46" mower. It also had a snow blade, but even with chains and weights in the Winter, I was always getting stuck, it it took forever to clean my two driveway's drifts.

About 15 years ago I bought a used John Deere 955 with 33 HP, diesel, 4x4, foot control hydrostatic, 3 point hitch, 72" belly mower and a 52" front end loader. I have used it more and more each year that I've owned it and rarely a day goes by that I'm not using the loader for cleaning horse stalls, pulling logs from the creek, loading my truck with scrap metal, hay, or firewood, and mowing 2 lots. I love it and will never go back to a garden tractor.....well worth the money.

955 is a great machine. Want....
Maintain 8 acres with a Ford 600 automatic from around late 50's. Need 4xd though.
For the op, I'd look for a nice used 690 Deere or other 3 cyl yanmar tractor. All you need for what you have.

A Ventrac or Steiner might not be a bad choice. The people who own them love them. I've never personally owned or ran one. A lot of municipalities use them for property maintenance. If you've got some coin to blow a Bobcat Toolcat 5600 is an awesome machine with all wheel steer, a boom that will lift 1500 lbs, has a dump bed capable of handling about 2000 lbs, takes almost all bobcat attachments has enclosed cab and air. You can find an older one with around 1400 hours for around 24K. I guess it ultimately depends on what your primary use is and what your budget is and what your primary use is. Personally I've got a Hustler Super Z for mowing and I use a Bobcat for everything else. I should mention I sell skid steers so I'm not exactly unbiased but a Bobcat is about as handy a tool as you can buy when you consider you can get about every attachment you can imagine at a rental yard. If you're going to do some land clearing that requires some dirt moving I'd go skid steer. If your primary use is mowing with some light lifting a compact tractor would be a good choice.

Seahawk's comment about engine vs PTO horsepower sent me to the web to do some research on how power is rated for compact tractors. They apparently aren't subject to the Nebraska test protocol, so we're back to the bad old days if you're compact tractor shopping. Compact tractor dealers can report horsepower in any way they want. There is a lot of bad information out there about the subject however. For instance, I came across this gem:

"Horsepower is a common method by which to gauge a tractor’s size. In the old days, tractor horsepower was spoken of in terms of drawbar horsepower, meaning how much power the tractor transferred to the ground. As time went by, marketing departments of the manufacturers decided that PTO horsepower should be used, simply because it’s a higher number. Therefore, if a salesperson was describing his tractor with drawbar horsepower, the competing dealer would use PTO horsepower, a higher number, for the same size tractor."

That is nonsense.

Even before the state of Nebraska established a standard test protocol horsepower was reported as both belt (when pto replaced belt drive it became pto) and drawbar hp. The Nebraska protocol was established specifically because dealers were quoting fictitious or misleading numbers. Through the 1950s you couldn't even sell a garden tractor without it being subject to the test. Now apparently anything under 40 hp is exempt.

That Toolcat looks awesome. I suspect it might not be nimble enough and have enough ground clearance for tractor jobs, but I can see it being useful on a bigger farm that also had a real tractor. Reminds me of the Ag Jeeps and Ag Powerwagons that they tried in the '50s.

The Toolcat is crazy awesome. Problem is new I think they run in the 60K range new. I sold two of them used last year and got 34K for one and 32K for the other but both of those had around 400 hours. You can actually lock the rear axle turned to crab steer. Nice thing is they don't mark the yard up like a skid steer and best of all the newer ones go around 18 mph in high gear IIRC and have independent front and rear suspension. You can buy them with road package making them street legal. I believe a rear PTO can be added to them.

tractors are fun...get one...a diesel ...with hydraulics.....I like green..

This thread is bad news for my wallet.

I had been looking at an older Kubota but now think a yanmar might do the trick. Not too much $$, simple, parts around... plus JD and others have basically stuck their name on them for a while. :)

I picked up a running Yanmar 155D ( 4x4-15hp) with bucket and box scrapper for $1100. Put in a new radiator, serviced everything, 5 new hyd hoses and was good to :) Still under $1700 in it:)

Great deal! Put me in line for the next one. :)

Need's got nothin' to do with it

Except for seahawks those are all toys, if you want to bushhog you want 50hp diesel minimum. Mine is 60hp FWD White 2-60, which really is a Fiat 640DT
Get a dedicated mower first, I have a JD X320

If you are handy get a solid older model, easy to work on without all the tier4 crap.

This is experience talking, done my share of messing around with the toy tractors, never again.

Family was in the biz and franchised dealer starting in '58 and with taking on Kubota around '76. Initially, lots of anti-sentiment towards a Japanese made tractor but they ran circles around tractors much larger. The compact size and robust reputation made them big in the states.

Nowadays you've got to be very careful which model to pick - new or used. From John Deere, Kubota to Yanmar, there's lots of crap and over (er' under-) engineered components on them. They have automotive designer mentality in them.

Too many little light duty castings, flimsy lever's, small sealed balljoints, tiny couplings, weak shaft splines, crap fittings, clogging air tunnels, sheet metal guards bits and hardware, plastic, etc.. Once its starts little leaks of oil, they attract dirt and accumulate everything, which clogs them up and hence overheat components.

Parts prices are atrocious. Worse yet, when the machine breaks down, distribution is short on parts. You might wait half a year for some part. This goes for all brands including JOHN DEERE.

My guess is 80% of owners abuse the machines. I lost count on how many trade-ins we took in with the owner pre-washing the tractor thinking we'd believe it was well cared for. First thing we'd do is open the pre-cleaner. Always jammed clogged! Next was the fuel filters. LOL