I'm thinking .44 Mag Henry for deer.....

[HardDrive]

MI and OH (and I think IN) have recently changed their deer hunting laws to allow for straight walled rifles. I had it in my head to get a .45-70, but I'm thinking better of it. The idea of recoil twice as hard as a .30-06 does not sound like a good time.

I hunt in MI and OH, I don't recall ever shooting more than 50 yards, so a .44 should be fine with good shot placement.

Any thoughts on the issue?

[Taz's Master]

A .44 magnum carbine would be fine for deer, and probably black bear as well. Look at .357 magnum ballistics from a carbine. I shot one that was giving 1900+ fps from a 16" Rossi with 140 grain Hornady XTPs. That is getting very close to a .30-30, and probably good to 125 yards. A .44 magnum is more than adequate inside of 75 yards.

[Porchdog]

I love my Marlin .44 and I do take it out deer hunting from time to time. I'm very confident to 100 yards (probably my limit with open sights). .44 should have plenty of power for deer, especially from a carbine. An acquaintance killed a 700+# black bear with one shot from a handgun several years ago and he was using 180 grain loads. I haven't shot at a deer with it yet, but that's primarily due to Pennsylvania's antler restrictions.
We need to have at least 3 points on one side to shoot a buck, with my eyesight I need some magnification to count points most of the time. I only use open sights if I'm hunting antlerless or flintlock.


Don't dismiss the 45-70 before you try it. I have a barrel for my Encore and it's not bad at all with the Remington "black powder equivalent" 405 grain loads. If you load up velocity it can get painful, but it doesn't take that much to kill a deer and it's much more accurate than any slug gun I have tried.

By the way, my cousin has an early "guide gun" in .444 Marlin (before they started porting them). I tried that with the Hornady "light magnum" loads and it was downright vicious.

[flipper35]

Our .45-70 isn't any worse than 3" 12 gauge for kick. That said, the .44 magnum might be easier to find ammo for and is certainly enough gun for the range you are shooting. Of course, there is always the old 30-30.

[KFC911]

I'm sure Higgins will offer his opinion on Henry's soon enough....and he my well be right for a .44. I love my Henry Golden Boy (.22)....smooth as silk. My Marlin .357 isn't in the same league quality wise as the Marlin .30-30 I've had since I was a teen. Me....I'd be looking for an old Marlin. Then there's Craig and all his gorgeous Winchesters

[Porchdog]

He can't use 30-30. They are straight wall cartridges only.

Just as an aside, I put together a .44 flintlock kit gun a few years ago. Not what I would have chosen - my buddy gave up on it when he realized the barrel wasn't straight. I put way to much time into it (straightening the barrel was the least of it), then couldn't get it to group consistently when it was done.

Well last year my son was having fits getting his Thompson Encore to shoot consistently. I really dug into load development for flintlocks and got it shooting pretty well. I then revisited the .44 and got that to where I'm pretty happy with it.

I'll be hunting flintlock with a .44 round ball this year - that's noticeably less powerful than a .44 magnum.

When I was a kid our neighbor killed his "crop damage" deer with .410 pumpkin balls. If you are careful to take good shots it doesn't take a whole lot to kill a deer.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Porchdog

He can't use 30-30. They are straight wall cartridges only.
....

Oh yeah...I meant an older Marlin in .44 mag like you or......still waiting for Higgins:
in .45 LC (if sourcing ammo isn't an issue.)

[Taz's Master]

Basically a .357, .44 or .45 carbine will be very effective on deer inside of 100 yards. Henry, Marlin, Winchester,Ruger, Uberti, Browning, and even Rossi have good lever actions in some or all of those calibers in varying levels of cost and finish. Ruger has a bolt in .357 and .44 that is appreciated by those who own one. You can have a great deer rifle in a pistol caliber carbine. Do you reload? If you are only shooting factory ammo, I'd look to double up the caliber with a handgun you already own. If you roll your own, it isn't as significant, and you can tailor practice loads and hunting loads to your enjoyment and needs. But I wouldn't worry about a .44 mag doing the job on a whitetail inside of 100 yards, as long as the bullet hits where it is supposed to.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Porchdog

He can't use 30-30. They are straight wall cartridges only.

Just as an aside, I put together a .44 flintlock kit gun a few years ago. Not what I would have chosen - my buddy gave up on it when he realized the barrel wasn't straight. I put way to much time into it (straightening the barrel was the least of it), then couldn't get it to group consistently when it was done.

Well last year my son was having fits getting his Thompson Encore to shoot consistently. I really dug into load development for flintlocks and got it shooting pretty well. I then revisited the .44 and got that to where I'm pretty happy with it.

I'll be hunting flintlock with a .44 round ball this year - that's noticeably less powerful than a .44 magnum.

When I was a kid our neighbor killed his "crop damage" deer with .410 pumpkin balls. If you are careful to take good shots it doesn't take a whole lot to kill a deer.

Missed that part.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

If you are only shooting factory ammo, I'd look to double up the caliber with a handgun you already own. .

If I'm enough of a wussy that I don't want to shoot a .45-70, what makes you think I want to shoot a .44 handgun?

I do have a .357 Blackhawk, but I'd rather have the extra punch of .44

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

If I'm enough of a wussy that I don't want to shoot a .45-70, what makes you think I want to shoot a .44 handgun?

I do have a .357 Blackhawk, but I'd rather have the extra punch of .44

Grady Clay was a wise man. My M629 (.44 mag) is a handful (for me, and I'm sure Higgin's thinks we're both wusses btw ), Listening to Grady, I finally found some .44 Special....probably more than capable inside 100 yds too. Wanna buiy a NICE 629....I keed...ain't for sale

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

If I'm enough of a wussy that I don't want to shoot a .45-70, what makes you think I want to shoot a .44 handgun?

I do have a .357 Blackhawk, but I'd rather have the extra punch of .44

Well, a 158 grain jacketed hollow point at 2153 fps (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=100) - scroll down to the 18.5" Marlin load - will put you right there with a .30-30. A .357 magnum out of a carbine is nothing to turn your nose up at, very suitable medicine for whitetails. And .38 specials can be bought way cheaper than .44 specials and are tons of fun to shoot from a carbine.

But you are right a .44 will give you extra punch. I'm just suggesting that inside 100 yards the deer won't notice one way or the other and the .357/.38 will be way cheaper and more fun to shoot. And you already have a revolver that eats the same stuff. Either will do the job, and I cannot believe you will regret owning, shooting or hunting whitetails with a pistol caliber carbine. It might even get you to buy another Blackhawk.

[Taz's Master]

Any prohibition on semi auto for deer in OH and MI (there is in PA)? If not, Ruger made a .44 Carbine that was a semi, and could be of interest. Just throwing that out there for consideration.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

....I'm just suggesting that inside 100 yards the deer won't notice one way or the other and the .357/.38 will be way cheaper and more fun to shoot. .....

This makes a lot of sense to me too! My .357 lever has become my "all purpose" spoon. More valuable spoons are safed away, not likely to become a "street gun" if stolen, appropriate for coyote , or 2 legged pests and it has become my "truck gun" when going rural and wanting something along...YMMV.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

Any prohibition on semi auto for deer in OH and MI (there is in PA)? If not, Ruger made a .44 Carbine that was a semi, and could be of interest. Just throwing that out there for consideration.

No, but we do have a 3 round limit. I've never really seen the need for a semi with deer. When you shoot the first time, its either A) They do nothing because they can't figure out where the shot came from, or B) Its off the races, and the chances of you hitting them again are damn low...and perhaps unethical.

[vash]

so you cant hunt with a traditional rifle cartridge? it has to be straight walled?

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

No, but we do have a 3 round limit. I've never really seen the need for a semi with deer. When you shoot the first time, its either A) They do nothing because they can't figure out where the shot came from, or B) Its off the races, and the chances of you hitting them again are damn low...and perhaps unethical.

Not advocating a semi for deer, just thinking it is a cool rifle and maybe the right excuse to get one. Your suggestion of a Henry in .44 is a great one for big game in your region. I am not trying to convince you to go in another direction (because there isn't much to criticize about that direction), just throwing out other options.

A Henry is heavy in comparison to other manufacturers' options. If you don't have a sling and need to carry it any distance that will make a difference. But that weight will make shooting it more pleasant by soaking up recoil. I've not read anything negative about Henry other than the weight and the way you load it is from the end of the tube rather than a side loading gate (and cannot see how that would be a negative in a hunting arm). The .44 magnum is an effective round, and very flexible if you hand load. It can be expensive in comparison to other options if you are buying factory ammo.

[Porchdog]

My Marlin in .44 magnum is about as light as a lever action can get (short barrel and straight stock, peep sight) and recoil is so light you don't notice it, even with the heaviest loads I'll run in a Marlin (not the heaviest Buffalo Bore stuff).

I use a stiff load with a 240 grain soft point.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by vash

so you cant hunt with a traditional rifle cartridge? it has to be straight walled?

Yes, straight walled only, the theory being that they're lower velocity and don't carry as far as necked down shells. Lower MI and nearly all of OH are flat as a pancake, and the concern is bullets traveling a long distance beyond the target and hurting someone. Seems remote chance to me, but there are stories of it happening.

That said, I would think a .45-70 with a 250gr bullet and loaded hot it going to have pretty good range, so I'm not so sure insisting on straight walled cartridges is really much protection......

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by vash

so you cant hunt with a traditional rifle cartridge? it has to be straight walled?

It's due to the land being F L A T ! a 30/06 would run to the deer, out of the deer and into the next county.

straight walled rounds will stop sooner