New Z-06 takes on GT3 at Trackday...

[Tervuren]

Not sure where the hate comes from.

Looks like two guys with fun cars out on a track with other fun cars out on a track in a session that doesn't have coordinated forced passing/no passing zones.

Mediocre skill, maybe they both shouldn't be out there in a session like that, but they kept it off the grass, kept it off the wall, and kept it off other cars.

[dewolf]

At least they're doing it at the track and not on the road.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

Not sure where the hate comes from.

Looks like two guys with fun cars out on a track with other fun cars out on a track in a session that doesn't have coordinated forced passing/no passing zones.

Mediocre skill, maybe they both shouldn't be out there in a session like that, but they kept it off the grass, kept it off the wall, and kept it off other cars.

Rigiht cars, right venue - WRONG ATTITTUDE. That's my issue with the video.

Track days are designed for people who want to LEARN how to drive their cars at the limits on a racetrack. It is not meant for "racing," posting videos on Youtube about how you "beat" a GT3, and for bragging. Those two cats did not learn a thing there. Granted, Jedi hand gestures really don't work too well - but right from the get-go the Vette driver had one thing in mind - go faster than anyone else out there. "Winning!" Notice how he was sitting? Almost up out of his seat - like a dog pulling on his chain. That body language alone, plus the licking of his chops, plus his swearing at other drivers while passing them incidates that he's there for the wrong reason. As an instructor, I've seen this time and again.

The biggest reason there was no crumpled sheet metal / fiberglass is: luck. Second biggest reason: the driver nanny aids were getting quite a workout.

IF he would have taken a session to have an experienced instructor show him how to actually drive, his lap times would have improved significantly, and the new video would have been him passing the GT3 on the first lap.

-Z

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by Z-man

Rigiht cars, right venue - WRONG ATTITTUDE.

Track days are designed for people who want to LEARN how to drive their cars at the limits on a racetrack.

IF he would have taken a session to have an experienced instructor show him how to actually drive, his lap times would have improved significantly, and the new video would have been him passing the GT3 on the first lap.

-Z

No, that's what YOU want out of a track day. There are run groups designed for "LEARN how to drive at a car's limit" with point-by passing, no-passing, and lead-follow. These guys are in a RED run group with open passing. If you run with that group, you know what you're getting into.

IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO! This bashing the VET guy like a villain, and treating the GT3 guy like a victim is ridiculous. The Vet guy drove better than the GT3 guy. The GT3 early apexed constantly and went wide on everything. If you took away 1/2 the long straight and banking, the Vet guy would have left him in the dust.

LOL...He wasn't concerned with his "lap times". He was concerned with beating that damned GT3!

I ran the POC Performance Driving Series for three years. I got so sick of people wanting to be in the faster groups, then whining about "HE GOT TOO CLOSE TO ME" and "I DIDN'T POINT HIM BY BECAUSE I'M JUSTY GOING TO PASS HIM IN THE STRAIGHT!". Some people are only happy if they're on the track by themselves.

The best DE group was always the red group. They had to earn that run group with experience, but they were the closest knit group (depute the on-track battles) and self-policing. The non-passing and point-by groups were at each others throats constantly. I felt like a camp counselor for whiny girls.

[motion]

Jeez, you car guys sure are a bunch of prima donnas! You should try motorbike racing and track days! You can use slower riders for berms to improve your lap times, and nobody cares! hahaha

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by motion

Jeez, you car guys sure are a bunch of prima donnas! You should try motorbike racing and track days! You can use slower riders for berms to improve your lap times, and nobody cares! hahaha

Ha! Thats right! Put these DE only do-gooders in my race car for one race and they'd wish they were on the track with that Vet.

People bash these guys in open passing sessions. If it sacres them...just stay out!

[motion]

I think this thread illustrates why some people drive around cones in a parking lot and some people race. All good... just different things for different people

[Cajundaddy]

Hehe, I raced MX and Grand Prix for 8 years and knocked handlebars with Steve Bauer, Davy Williams, Brian Meyerscoff and Jeff Ward more than once in expert class on SoCal tracks. There was a high skill level and a lot of shenanigans (T-bones and legs thrown) while racing. We also put a lot of time in the hospital healing from track injuries.

Cut to the Vette vid. These guys had almost zero skill and Vette Noob routinely wrote checks he could not cash but his nannies served as overdraft protection and kept him on the track surface... for now. From what I saw they had no business going door to door with zero skill and zero safety gear in an experienced, open passing/no rules DE session. One of them will get killed. The lawyers will get involved and sue everybody, and race tracks will quietly close their doors to DE enthusiasts in order to reduce their exposure to the legal system. That is the problem I have with this vid. It happened before 25 years ago with dirt tracks and it will happen again if a no-rules DE session begins taking out participants because they were stupid.

Everybody who likes rubbing fenders and swapping paint should earn their racing license, strip and cage their car and go out and do it. Don't show up in a mixed DE group in 500hp street cars with rugby helmets and expect to go racing. It risks everyone around them and track access for the rest of us.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Craig T

Ha! Thats right! Put these DE only do-gooders in my race car for one race and they'd wish they were on the track with that Vet.

People bash these guys in open passing sessions. If it sacres them...just stay out!

Maybe the difference is that Racing isn't DE. Maybe what's getting everyone going is that there's a third option and that's Track Days.

So, maybe I'm wrong but could there be

DE - Driver's Ed, learn to drive your car and push yourself and your car to the limits in as safe an environment as possible.

Track Days - There is some direction and education initially, but ultimately what you're working towards is paying your cash so you can take your car to the track and flog the hell out of it, hopefully, fairly safely.

Racing - It's you against them. Stuff happens.

I've not actually been to any of them, but I can see and have read how some track day organizations are less structured and less safety oriented than they are an opportunity to get your car on the track so you can be fast and furious. I also believe that there are some organizations that focus much more on education and safety.

So, could it be that some folks here are imagining "Track Days" as being more like a "DE day"?

The vette guy needs to relax a bit. Maybe he should get a racecar so he can go racin'. Rubbin' is racin'? It would probably be far safer and more educational for him.

I could see the vette guy getting into this kind of trouble.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by Craig T

No, that's what YOU want out of a track day. There are run groups designed for "LEARN how to drive at a car's limit" with point-by passing, no-passing, and lead-follow. These guys are in a RED run group with open passing. If you run with that group, you know what you're getting into.

With NNJR PCA, the Red run group is reserved for experienced drivers and instructors. Passing rules are more relaxed - passing in the corners, and perhaps passing without a point-by has been instituted by now (Haven't done DE in a couple of years).

i am all for relaxed passing rules - with experienced drivers. The GT3 and Vette drivers are NOT experienced drivers.

Want to run with the big boys? Learn how to drive your car on the track - learn the proper line, effective braking and throttle control...etc. Learn track etiquette and track awareness. Understand respect. Then you can join the red group. OR - go get your racing license - which will probably take a bit longer to achieve.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

Never knew "douchebaggery" was limited to American car owners.. Ya learn something new everyday..


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its not but that seemed on point for the acod ive experienced. nonsensical trash talking from the individual exhibiting lower intelligence and less skillthan the person they're insulting