Has anybody sued or been sued in Small Claims Court?

[2porscheguy]

Sorry to drag this out guys but, YES!...... this has to do with my ongoing fight with Yellowpages(dot)ca.....yadayadayada!

I've consulted with a lawyer and she has recommended that I send them a registered letter, telling them that "effective June 1/15, I am cancelling said contract with YPs due to the fact that YPs has not fulfilled their contractual obligations with me. Further to this I am asking for a refund of $20K in fees paid by me to YPs."

Has anybody been through something similar to this? I can see them coming after me via collections, threatening my credit rating, and then ultimately ending up in small claims court. Am I best to take the high road and sue them first?

Once again I call on the PPOT brain trust!

Thanks in advance ladies and gents!

[wdfifteen]

$20k is too much for small claims court in any state in the US. I don't know how it works in Canada. Small claims court is for, well, small claims. $20k isn't small.

[2porscheguy]

wdfifteen, SCC limit is $50K in Alberta.

[stomachmonkey]

Yup

$20k is not small claims around here.

If you get out of the contract then call it a win.

My guess is YP deal with a dissatisfied customer all the time.

They can probably beat you in court in their sleep by now.

One thing about lawsuits that I've found, more often the only thing they decide is who had the better attorney that day.

[legion]

I sued a realtor who ripped me off for $500 about 4 years ago. Got a default judgment at my first court appearance, but it took two more years of court to force him to actually pay.

Unfortunately, a lot of small time con artists rely on the slowness and opaqueness of the justice system knowing that they can violate contracts at will and there will be no real consequences, ever. Turns out I was the 11th person to sue this guy in small claims court, but the only one to ever successfully collect from him.

[recycled sixtie]

Alex in our condo building we have a claim against a supplier of services coming up in small claims court. The amount is small namely $5500. Our volunteer tech guy has done a lot of work in substantiating the claim on the basis that the supplier did not do the work that was supposed to be done. As mentioned above $20k is likely above small claims court limit. To me it is really a wash whether we drop the lawsuit or carry on. There are court costs etc win or lose. If the supplier does not show up then we win but not necessarily collect!.

In your case your legal costs can quickly accelerate and it does not sound like a black and white case.

Proceed with caution. Sometimes a letter from the lawyer saying you would like to settle before any legal action is taken might be less stressful and cheaper in the long run.
I am sure there are lawyers here that could diagnose your situation and forecast a possible outcome. If it was me I would take some deep breaths and examine all courses of action. Sometimes the aggressive action may not be the answer.
Cheers, Guy

[wdfifteen]

Here in Ohio the purpose of small claims court is to minimize legal costs. Originally you weren't allowed to have an attorney with you. You state your claim to the judge, the other guy states his claim, the judge decides. You have to collect on your own if you win. Now, with a $3000 claim limit and the need to hire an attorney, the small claims court doesn't make any sense.

[Ziggythecat]

^
You might want to double check that.
While an attorney is not required in small claims court in Ohio, it is certainly allowed.
Not sure if it's a nationwide or State issue, but Corporations are required to have an attorney represent them in court.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Ziggythecat

^
You might want to double check that.
While an attorney is not required in small claims court in Ohio, is is certainly allowed.

I wouldn't bother going to court against an attorney unless I had one of my own. So the law doesn't require it, but in a practical sense you'd better show up with one.

[Venetian]

I'm in Calgary and went thru small claims court about 2 yrs ago. It was related to a landscaping screw up by a large landscape company. They completely ignored my calls leaving me no choice but to sue them. There was a outstanding $3000 balance owed to them. I had one arbitration meeting(no success) and a "court appearance" with a judge over about 6 months. Both sides of course present there positions in front of the judge.

I won a partial settlement. The landscape company forgave the $3000 balance and wrote me a cheque for $4000. The alternative to this settlement was to go to trial which would have been expensive and not worth it for the amounts involved.

So the system worked somewhat but it is a drawn out process.

[Rick Lee]

Alex, I used to sell YP advertising. Granted, it was 15 yrs. ago and in the US. But when we had a deal on the line, we had to conference in a third party verification service to record the call. The third party read off a pretty extensive disclaimer, got verbals from the customer and then everything got snail-mailed to them too. I don't know how they do it nowadays or in Canada. But I'm guessing they have a solid legal team that has meticulously crafted whatever process by which you ordered your service. Not saying you don't have a legitimate beef, but they probably have that base covered somehow and your complaint will be far from the first one they've easily swatted away.

True story - I inherited an account someone else sold. The YP customer was one of those experts CNN or Fox calls in when there's a big news story in China and they need a commentator to Skype in or come to their studio to explain something. He was sold around the time of the P-3 incident over Hainan Island. The co-worker of mine convinced him his phone would ring off the hook if he took out a YP ad highlighting his expertise on Chinese political and military affairs. Guess how that renewal call went.

[2porscheguy]

Guys thanks for your input so far!

Allow me to plead my case here! I currently have a one year contract with YPs, which expires Oct 1/15. YPs is supposed to provide me with online marketing to promote my Optometry practice via SEO and other online campaigns such as mobile and Google preferred placement as well as preferred placement on their own YPs website. They have also provided me with website development and maintenance.

I have been paying a premium for this service @ aprox $3000+ per month. So here's the issue! All three of my preferred placement listings, the YPs mobile, YPs website, and Google adwords had an incorrect website link associated with these "premium products" for SEVEN MONTHS!!! In otherwords, if you were to land on one of these listings and click on WEBSITE, you would get a dead link....nada, nothing! I had brought this up with the rep on numerous occasions and was told that he'd "look into it". Three times he told me that it was all good....three times I checked and the problem persisted! So I filed a claim with their claims department and they concluded that yes this has been ongoing for seven months (I have that in writting in an email from them). They have offered me a credit of....wait for it!..about $4000! I said no, I want a 100% credit of all fees paid on the contract, which works out to $16,975.53 (so not quite 20K as I had previously mentioned).

Of course the rep and his manager came back to me at a recent meeting and offered me "substantial savings" on a future contract with all of our "premium online products" if I accepted the (measly) credit! I would prefer to just end it with these clowns but I believe I also have a decent case here to get more $$$ back, especially since I have it in writing that they recognized that there was indeed an error committed on their part!

Sorry about the long post here but let's hear your views on this!

[1990C4S]

Cancel and walk away.

[stomachmonkey]

Alex,

Here is what will happen.

1) They will tell you building the website was $x,xxx.xx
2) Hosting the website was $xxx.xx per month
3) They spent $x,xxxx.xx on advertising and placement (google)
4) $XXX.XX per month went to support
5) Their analytics will report XXX number of visitors to your site per month and they will tie the referral to their initiatives.

All of those will be valid expenses and performance as defined by the contract and would likely be considered by the court as such. Meaning it gets deducted from the $16+k you are seeking.

The $4k they offered you will be what they have determined was unrealized traffic / value from the bad link.

And BTW, this was my suspicion earlier but now confirmed.

Part of the $3k per month is for the hosting. If you cancel that contract without moving your hosting, as I suggested multiple times, your website goes bye bye, which is why I was adamant that you switch registrar and hosting.

[2porscheguy]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Cancel and walk away.

YES!!! But can I do that?!?

[gshase]

YP will appeal it to a higher court and then Lawyers will be involved$$$$$$$$

[bpu699]

Here is the math... ( I goto small claims a lot. Always win, hardly ever collect... tenants...sigh)

Getting a lawyer will run $2000-3000 to start. $10k if it goes beyond small claims, easy.

Find out what your small claims limit is and sue up to that limit on your own. IE. If its 5 grand, sue for 2 months of payments to be returned. Then pending that case, assuming you win, sue for the next 2 months, and so, and so on. If you lose the first case, you can still sue for the next several time sand get a lawyer next time.

This way, if you win the first case, you would think that by default they pay you the rest.

Also, read your contract... and verbiage about requires arbitration?

Bo

[drcoastline]

Alex,

I had a similar experience with them regarding my insurance business in New Jersey. In my case they had a wrong telephone number, a bad address and the wrong website. Not only online but in the books. My costs weren't quite as high as your but still substantial and the lost business is in-calculable. You do indeed have a case but here's your issue. $17,000.00 is substantial money but are you going to try this case yourself or hire an attorney? You will easily spend $17,000.00 in attorneys fees. Doing it yourself you run the risk of being outdone by an experienced trial attorney. The shame of it is YP knows the cost of trial. Most likely they have attorneys on staff that do nothing but deal with cases like yours. It basically costs YP nothing to defend and you spend as much to go to court on principal. Even if you win you beak even.

Sorry for the bad news but that's the reality of the legal system. In the US anyway.

[2porscheguy]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Alex,

Here is what will happen.

1) They will tell you building the website was $x,xxx.xx
2) Hosting the website was $xxx.xx per month
3) They spent $x,xxxx.xx on advertising and placement (google)
4) $XXX.XX per month went to support
5) Their analytics will report XXX number of visitors to your site per month and they will tie the referral to their initiatives.

All of those will be valid expenses and performance as defined by the contract and would likely be considered by the court as such. Meaning it gets deducted from the $16+k you are seeking.

The $4k they offered you will be what they have determined was unrealized traffic / value from the bad link.

And BTW, this was my suspicion earlier but now confirmed.

Part of the $3k per month is for the hosting. If you cancel that contract without moving your hosting, as I suggested multiple times, your website goes bye bye, which is why I was adamant that you switch registrar and hosting.

SM, I did secure the domain...check the link under www drwilsoneyecare com:

WHOIS Lookup - Domain Whois Search, Availability, and Information | eNom

Am I not in full control of the DNS now?

The YPS "Website Pro Plus" package is $150 per month and includes website development, maintenance, and hosting.

[2porscheguy]

Originally Posted by bpu699

Here is the math... ( I goto small claims a lot. Always win, hardly ever collect... tenants...sigh)

Getting a lawyer will run $2000-3000 to start. $10k if it goes beyond small claims, easy.

Find out what your small claims limit is and sue up to that limit on your own. IE. If its 5 grand, sue for 2 months of payments to be returned. Then pending that case, assuming you win, sue for the next 2 months, and so, and so on. If you lose the first case, you can still sue for the next several time sand get a lawyer next time.

This way, if you win the first case, you would think that by default they pay you the rest.

Also, read your contract... and verbiage about requires arbitration?

Bo

The SCC limit is $50,000 in Alberta.