Hacking a car
 

I saw that this morning, it'll only get worse. I think the automakers are way behind on this.

My 85 911 and 86 El Camino are 100% hack proof. Not even Skynet can hack my cars!

I call BS on this 'test'. The IP address (reportedly) changes every time you start the car.

How did they get the IP address? Sure, they hacked in after they got the IP...which is a major flaw. They did hint that there was a back door Chrysler likely left open by accident. Not good.

Legitimate concern? Yes. High risk? Don't think so.

I'd suggest not calling BS. I do understand that this does likely wrack your thinking and make you question everything you ever thought was safe.

IP Addresses don't matter, these guys are Black Hat masters and you can guarantee there are other people as good or better than they with less humble motives...

The risk is getting higher and higher as consecutive model lines emerge. New, higher technologically capable devices, being built on the same basic security (or lack of) platform. Parallel it to someone building a top of the line home with every amazing feature you can think, but the front door is locked by a wood board nailed across the door....

These guys proved, if you have a late model car and a hacker wants to control your car and kill you and your family, it can be done.

Now it's a race to figure out how politicians can work in conjunction withthe car companies to fill their pockets:rolleyes:

Hack Takes Over Your Car's Steering While You're Driving | Popular Science

Pop sci did it with both a Ford and Toyota. A longer article I read on the subject noted that the sync system on the Ford's is able to talk to the engine management computer and the traction control modules etc, allowing a direct path to shut down cylinders, brake individual wheels etc.
And as a side note, allows law enforcement to shut down your vehicle as required with the assistance of Ford.

You don't have to have a specific IP address, any one will do. They even said they simply referenced which nodes had both Sprint and UConnect, then they knew they had a viable candidate. They probably needed more specific info to shut down the exact car they wanted to for the example, but even knowing that an IP address has Sprint and UConnect means they can shut it down, what do the hackers care where that car is or who it belongs to, the fact they can do it is what is worrisome.

If OnStar can start your car remotely for you, or unlock your doors if you lost your keys, I don't think a remote shutdown would be that difficult for tech saavy hackers.

I don't know about "Skynet" hacking your car, but a well placed electromagnetic pulse could render everything computerized completely useless.

How long before you see paid advertising on your screens?

New car? No thanks.

rjp

'This test' was the relevant part. I would like to see them pick a random late model Chrysler and hack in remotely.

As for my personal concerns, I am and will be 100% safe. I do not, nor will I ever, own a car that is vulnerable.

What really surprised me is that someone could control steering or disable brakes. Ate they not physically connected to anything any more?

[QUOTE=1990C4S;8721543

As for my personal concerns, I am and will be 100% safe. I do not, nor will I ever, own a car that is vulnerable.[/QUOTE]

Remember the days when people said they would never have a car with power window or locks. Even air-con, because it was asking for trouble.
Just saying ....

Power steering is servo controlled on most cars now...

I will not a newer car because a) I don't waste money on cars and b) I like to be able to repair my own car. The choice I've made is not a result of some irrational fear....

My sentiments exactly. SmileWavy

Lol

My great great grandfather took the electronic ignition out and put points back in a car once.

Time marches on

If it's connected to the internet, it's hackable. Period. Fridge, cars, your doctor's office, everything.

I don't see a need for an internet connected car at this point, my kids have wifi-only ipads and can wait to be home to download stuff... For me, my phone's good enough.. Now when those guys manage to hack my phone and get IT to talk to my car and hack it, that'll be scary !! It's coming ! But not to my 911 or 912 ;-)

It's much cheaper to sell a car on features VS. quality. How much do they get for Nav, WIFI (who needs WIFI in a car?) and all that other crap? Huge margin, I'm sure.

People are into that **** these days, not driving- when you try to pass off a Ford Fusion as a driver's car, you know people have lost it.


rjp

PS - the proponents claim electronics are more reliable, lighter, more efficient, etc. etc. but the only drawback is the failure mode.

When your power steering starts to go on hydraulic racks, you get leaks, noise and gradually worse operation. How do you inspect the electronics? You can't.

What they want to do is grant external control of the vehicle to the ECU or worse, law enforcement- it's coming up next. Once it becomes commonplace to self-drive, next will be government's right to shut your car down. Don't pay your tabs? Shutdown. Breaking the speed limit- shutdown.

Not to mention, the driving experience is totally artificial- right down to simulated engine sounds through your audio.

No thanks. Driving enthusiasts will become like what horseback riders are today..

rjp

Proof once again of how ridiculous the auto industry has become.

Not that long ago cars were sold on build quality and safety. It seems added features and electronic devices are more important now.
I really don't want any part of it but at some point I'll be driving a daily that has these extras whether I like it or not.

Recently I was filling up my car at the service station. There was an LCD TV mounted over the browser that was constantly spewing out advertising. Extremely loud and annoying.
I decided right there and then to never buy petrol from that service station again. I wrote to the company and told them exactly that and not surprisingly they haven't got back to me yet.

Customer satisfaction and service have gone out the window. It's way cheaper and easier just to get new customers than keep existing ones happy.

Lets see them to that to a old VW bus:D

I'll bet anything that "runs on a wire", can be hacked. Just think....a hacker could send some electrolux car, a.ka. ' Chevy Volt.. ect..ect into maxium smoke. My sheet is old and hackproof but as the saying goes " we all make love in our own fashion" Go buy what ever feels good to ya!

He doesn't need to - they do that on their own!

Same reason why I hated CBS 60 Minutes-

And those Audi 5000 had a mind of their own. No matter how hard Mom pushed on the brake pedal, the Audi kept on charging, right through the garage door with granny on the prow. This despite the fact that the little five-cylinder mill only cranked out 130 horsepower. And the top-notch four-wheel disc brake system probably could generate well over 600 equivalent horsepower.

Apparently, the brakes were failing at exactly the same moment that the gas pedal decided it had a mind of its own. Perfectly plausible, at least to the 60 Minutes crew, the Audi (non)drivers, and much of the media and public.

About as plausible as ignoring the police report of the most dramatic victim on the show, Kristi Bradosky, who ran over her six year old son. That report said “Bradosky’s foot slipped off the brake pedal onto the gas pedal accelerating the auto.” Denial isn’t just a river.

Ed Bradley’s 17 minute “investigative report” aired on November 23, 1986. Between interviews of the teary-eyed “victims” (drivers) of unintended acceleration swearing their feet were on the brake pedal, CBS showed a clip of a driverless Audi lurching forward on its own.

Viewers didn’t get to see the canister of compressed air on the passenger-side floor with a hose running to a hole drilled in the transmission. An “expert” had rigged the Rube Goldberg device to shift the big Audi into drive and, like any automatic-equipped car, move forward (unless the brakes are depressed).

The clip was blatantly deceptive AND totally irrelevant. Nobody claimed driverless Audis were taking off and killing kids and grannies. Mom was always at the wheel, pushing the 5000’s “brake” pedal with all her might.

In 1989, after three years of studying the blatantly obvious, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued their report on Audi’s “sudden unintended acceleration problem.” NHTA’s findings fully exonerated Audi and some other implicated foreign makes”.

source and I still hate CBS :D
The Best Of TTAC: The Audi 5000 Intended Unintended Acceleration Debacle - The Truth About Cars

I remember sitting in my parents living room watching a special CBS 60 minutes investigative report about how all Jeep CJs at the time were severely top heavy, and how easy it was to tip one over while avoiding something in the road ahead of you. I also remember seeing the remote control steering device that cranked the wheel hard over at speed, and kept it there until the Jeep rolled....Even to my 10 year old eyes, this seemed suspect as no rational person would crank the wheel and keep it there. My Mother, on the other hand, took this as the word of God, and to this day hates all Jeeps, and refused to let my brother or I to own one.

When I got married, my wife had a really nice CJ-7 that we drove everywhere for the next few years (Mom hated it and worried excessively), and I never even lifted one tire off the ground while cornering spiritedly.

Most all of that is driven by ever-changing govt standards. A nanny state pushing for nanny-cars.

ha- Reminds me of the time having a Datsun pick-up (Nissan badged... I forget..) King cab, 4WD, little 4 banger in it. Fairly high stance but very light body and balanced chassis. With the street tires and joking around, would often four wheel drift on the tarmac. Very predictable. Miss that cute little bugger.

This is why I like my older cars and motorcycles. I don't have or want "online" or "connected" anything.

Until the effing government makes them illegal of course - eventually they'll mandate that everyone drive the newer stuff because (1) more tax $$$ for them to waste and (2) easier to control / track people. Just wait - it'll happen. "For public safety" will be the justification most likely.

The biggest concern is inter-connectivity. If auto manufacturers could figure out that all the systems DO NOT need to be intertwined with core functions (steering, acceleration, braking, engine management, etc) this would not be an issue. It's one thing to mess with someone's stereo, it's a whole other when they can get access to the CAN bus and drive your car into a wall.

Granted they are not releasing the code that allows a hacker to get access to those systems, these guys are just 2 of thousands with the skill and expertise.

How long til car get viruses?

Big topic at Defcon/BlackHat this year.

Ref: https://defcon.org/ , https://www.blackhat.com/

There's an element of Deja vu to this.
In 1960 John Deere unveiled its closed center hydraulic system, where the same hydraulic pump powered everything. Egged on my competitors, farmers freaked out when the discovered that the steering wheel was only connected to a hydraulic valve and the brake pedals likewise only went to hydraulic valves. (not to mention every other hydraulic function was powered by the same pump). There were tales of all kinds of disasters that supposedly happened when the steering or brakes quit when you used the front end loader. There never was a real problem, but IHC and the other competition sure tried to make JD's system look dangerous - until they adopted it themselves.

I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Was driving down a steep hill in Santa Barbara. The ECU crapped the bed at 48K miles....I had NOTHING. Pushed it into the curb at 35mph. Sold it after the repair.

The dealer and manufacturer said, here's your bill. Screw Jeep with NO reach around.

In the news today's - somewhat related:
Govt. RAM's it back to Fiat-Chrysler!
This one looks costly-

Have to say, good on the govt. I've seen these POS trucks rot out the suspensions to bumpers that only the thin chrome layer was holding it together!

Gov't: Fiat Chrysler must offer to buy back 500,000 pickups

^^^ Outstanding.