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-   -   Gas Quality question (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/877397-gas-quality-question.html)

rusnak 08-05-2015 05:43 PM
I wonder how they determine the RON number, or if the additive package affects octane?

Go check out the Costco additive tanks. They are maybe a 3,000 gal. tanks. I don't see how this is a good idea.

campbellcj 08-05-2015 07:41 PM
As Sammy said (he knows his stuff BTW, if you aren't familiar with his long-time career field), basically all the gas in Southern California is crap. I've lived here my entire life and can't say I have ever noticed any difference EXCEPT when I put something like VP 100 in a car built/tuned to take advantage of it. That's cuz it's all equally bad!

Kinda funny aside - I just sold a GIAC-flashed Audi ECU from my (dead) S4 and the guy said he couldn't feel any difference in performance. After some head-scratching, he finally 'fessed that he was running 87 in the car. STOCK this car requires 91 minimum. It's a high-compression 5 valve/cylinder twin turbo V6... with the tune I'm sure he was getting severely retarded tuning and almost no boost.

kach22i 12-23-2015 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Henry (Post 8739898)
V-power may be a gimmick, but here it has no methanol. Regular is 10%
Costco premium also has no methanol, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's the same gas.
UPDATE: 12/23/15...........four months later

RE: above quote
I missed this point because it had a typo in it, M in lieu of E.

This similar claim was just made elsewhere.

Big suburban or small jeep - Page 3 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile (Post 503011)
Probably because it has zero ethanol content. I've never been able to see a difference on V-Power vs E0. Why would nitrogen, an inert gas, be a good thing to add to fuel anyway?
About every six weeks I try gas from somewhere other than Shell and immediately notice a performance drop (in my S-10 and Porsche).

I'm sold on the stuff, and a loyal customer.

Besides, have you ever noticed inside your engine bay there is a decal recommending Shell? My 1977 has it, it's in storage right now otherwise I would take a photo of it.

Mark Henry 12-23-2015 06:02 AM
If anyone wants to test their gas it's real easy and you don't need to buy a kit.

You need a small glass jar, tall and thin is best, but a baby food jar will work. A measured beaker would make the math easy.

Mark it out, you need to do the math, but you want the math to work out something like a 10%, 20% and 30% mark on the bottom and then a 100% in the middle, then a 10 and 20% mark at the top. (120%total)
Also it is best to scratch in the lines, ink/marker will wash off.

Fill with gas to the 100% line, add 10% water, the water will sink to the bottom.

Shake and let settle, if the bottom layer doubles you have 10% ethanol. If it tripled you have 20%, etc.
It works simply because ethanol mixes with water.

I've thought about removing ethanol with water, but since the ethanol effects the octane rating and I can get pure gas (premium) here easy, I've never been willing to try it.

sammyg2 12-23-2015 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusnak (Post 8737860)
Costco only now was deemed to be a major oil company, based on their sales.

Until now, there were zero detergents and no additives. Just the cheapest gas available.

But since their volume makes them an oil company, they must fire in the additives, at least in California. But, rather than buying it already mixed into the gas, they are mixing it on site at each Costco store.

Would I buy Costco gas?

Not if there was any other gas available. Especially if you have a nice car.

Gas is NOT THE SAME, across brands.
Yes, it is.

M.D. Holloway 12-23-2015 06:12 AM
Rusnak,
Saying Costco is an oil company is saying Walmart is a manufacturer - they are not. Both are a distributor and nothing more. The do not drill, pump, refine or package. They resell. Costco does have an interesting procurement department and I would suggest them over Sams / Walmart for volume quality but make no mistake - they are not an oil company.

Mark Henry 12-23-2015 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 8928985)
Yes, it is.
In Ontario Canada there is only one refinery, so here Sammy is spot on correct.

JD159 12-23-2015 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Henry (Post 8929024)
In Ontario Canada there is only one refinery, so here Sammy is spot on correct.
Actually she'll v power is the only grade by a brand that does not include ethanol.

Dantilla 12-23-2015 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 8738777)

... found myself near empty and ... decided to give it a try.

Leaving the gas station ... I decided to punch it...

Dang, the couple of car lengths I expected to see turned to over three quickly, next thing I knew I was on the entry to the highway just whisking away like the car weighed 100 lbs lighter.

The sound of the engine was even more "race car like" than usual, it sounded really good.
I think there must be an element of "The Power of Suggestion" here. When leaving the gas station, the car is still running on the old gas in the gas lines. The car will go a few miles before any of the fresh gas has made its way through the fuel system and to the engine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 8740260)

My opinion.....

Please get back to me after you have done your own seat of the pants testing.
Sorry. No such thing as seat of the pants "testing".

I'm glad you're happy with your opinion of Shell gas. I'm going to keep buying most of my gas from the friendly corner market, that happens sell Chevron.

sammyg2 12-23-2015 07:03 AM
A half-mile from my house, there is a shell station and an Arco station across from each other.

The Arco station is typically priced the cheapest in the area while the shell station's fuels are pretty expensive.
a 40 cent difference in price grade for grade is not unusual.

Both stations are owned by the same company.
Both stations get their gas from the same distributor.
The gas is made in the same refinery, in the same process, and the only difference is an ounce of additive (solvent) here and there.

It is all about marketing strategy. Some folks believe that gas is gas and that buying the cheapest (top tier) gas they can find is smart. And they are right. So the Arco brand caters to that market.
Arco sells gas very cheap, only making a few pennies per gallon. But they move a very high volume, which translates into enough profit to run the
station and sell ho-hos and zagnut bars and doritos.

The shell station caters to a different market segment, the one that says "you get what you pay for" which is pound foolish. People who are very susceptible to THE POWER OF SUGGESTION and advertising. ^^^^^^ see above.

That station only sells a fraction of the fuel that the Arco station sells, but with the very high profit margin it still covers the overhead and makes an equivalent profit.

There are no Shell oil refineries in So cal. There are no Exxon or Mobil refineries in So Cal (any more).
So guess where their stations get their fuels from? Typically from the same place. One refinery that makes 25% of all the fuels (including jet) in So Cal.
That refinery also supplies fuels to USA stations and Thrifty stations.

JD159 12-23-2015 07:37 AM
Sammy,

With your experience I don't question your knowledge on gas "quality". I have zero experience aside from putting the gas into my cars :D

But what about this??

http://www.maxim-x.com/pix/fuel+filter/Ethanol_in_Ontario.pdf

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1450888654.png

Can the ethanol vary between companies??

vash 12-23-2015 07:48 AM
i use 95% Costco gas. there is one about a mile from my house, so i can easily duck out right at closing time for fast gas.

i go so often i got to talking to the workers. cool bunch of guys. they told me my Costco is the second busiest store with respect to fueling. a store in Hawaii is the top gas seller. here it the mind blowing part. 11 times a day. 11x a day!!!! a big rig comes to the store to fill up the underground reservoirs. i see them there all the time, but had no idea it was 11x a day. (the Hawaii store, i was told 14x a day). that is a lot of fuel!! there is no way that stuff isnt fresh as heck. i have never had an issue..the only time i dont get Costco gas is when i am on a roadtrip.

Sediement at the bottom of the reservoir? i cant believe it. 11x a day.

just filled up yesterday. $2.24 for regular..that is about $0.30 less than the Chevron. just how expensive is Techcron?

KNS 12-23-2015 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 8928915)
Besides, have you ever noticed inside your engine bay there is a decal recommending Shell? My 1977 has it, it's in storage right now otherwise I would take a photo of it.
You're going off a recommendation that is nearly 40 years old. The Shell gas (and the agreement they had with Porsche back then) has changed in the last few decades.

My BMW (under the hood) says to use Castrol motor oil. But since that car was manufactured BMW has switched their contracted oil supplier to Shell/Pennzoil, which is what you'll find labeled under the hood of new BMWs. I'm confused - what to do...

Actually, I don't follow their suggestion at all and have been using my own choice of oil for the last 150,000 miles (almost 200K on it now).

lindbhr 12-23-2015 12:46 PM
As mentioned already, it's the additives or the amount of additives which differentiate gasoline. In the early 1990's the federal government mandated that refiners have a minimum amount of additives. Generally speaking, many refiner brands have 2-3 times this level of additive.They may have other unique qualities as well. Interestingly, Costco has 5 times this rate and they blend the additives at their stores. Look for the stainless steel box near their pumps. This way they can buy gasoline from any refiner they choose and still blend to their desired additive rate.

Mark Henry 12-23-2015 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD159 (Post 8929132)
Sammy,

With your experience I don't question your knowledge on gas "quality". I have zero experience aside from putting the gas into my cars :D

But what about this??

http://www.maxim-x.com/pix/fuel+filter/Ethanol_in_Ontario.pdf

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1450888654.png

Can the ethanol vary between companies??
I admit I don't know about Petrocan. Maybe, Just maybe, they source from Montreal which would be a different refinery.

I'd have to test the canadin tire gas to conferm the 10% midgrade I suspect it's really is 5% BUT here's the rub there is no such thing as mid-grade gas from the refinery.

There is regular with 10% and premium with 0%...the PUMP mixes the two together and a voala! presto!...you have mid-grade gas with 5% ethenol.

It has been awhile since I've tested my gas. I did test most except Petrocan and Canadian tire, my local Petrocan are MF'in crooks And I don't care for CT much.
I just posted an easy test for ethenol content, try it yourself like I did.

Dantilla 12-23-2015 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by widebody911 (Post 8740294)
I would add a splash xylene or toluene to the tank ... You can't get that stuff OTC any more :(
You must be in California. Still on the shelves at any paint or hardware store here.

djantlive 12-24-2015 08:15 PM
I used shell almost all the time until my m3 started misfire issue. After a month of diagnostic to replace many ignition and emission parts, the car finally needed a new tank of gas. After a fill up at another station, everything is normal again.

I rarely fill up at shell now. I find most cheap gas stations to have fresh gas at good price. There is even a 76 that sells gas at 20c less. Unfortunately, you sometimes have to deal with people that cut the line to get to cheap gas and there are no bathrooms. Those are the only downsides.

FYI Use yp app to search for cheap gas.

javadog 12-25-2015 03:08 AM
Cheap gas often comes from stations that have cheap owners, and low-life employees. Having once been in a business that sold, installed and serviced gas pumps and tanks, I choose not to buy gas from the cheap, older stations. What gets pumped in the tank may be the same but what comes back out is often not the same.

Then there's the temptation that some station owners can't resist, that of selling lower-than-labeled (octane) fuel in some of the tanks. Or ethanol fuels in tanks labeled as 100% gas...

I'm paying 1.89 for ethanol-free premium from a new-ish store a mile from my house that sells a good brand of gas. I see no reason to look for cheaper gas.

JR

gacook 12-25-2015 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 8738991)
Thank you for proving my point about the power of suggestion, the force has a strong influence on the weak mind.

Shell doesn't even make most of the gasoline sold at shell stations.
Shell only owns TWO refineries in the entire US of A, although they have joint ventures in 4 others.
They do not make enough gasoline to supply the shell stations.
A large portion of shell gas stations in the US are owned by OTHER OIL COMPANIES and get their gas from OTHER OIL COMPANIES!!

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS NITROGEN ENRICHED GASOLINE.
it's a marketing gimic. And it is working.

I was working at a Shell refinery in 2008 when they came out with their super-duper new and improved V-power premium gasoline.
I asked my buddies in the lab, what changed? They shook their heads and said nuthin, the gas is the same as it's always been. The marketing people just keep dreaming up new names for it.



There is absolutely NO WAY that you could tell the difference immediately qwhen switching ot shell gas, unless you were using too low of an octane before and your car tuned itself up to use the higher octane you put in the car. That is the only way.
Any other claims are simply hogwash and fantasy.

Even shell will admit the gas is the same, but they claim their 2 ounces per gallon of additive are BETTER because they use one ounce of two different detergents (solvents) instead of using 2 oz of one. Again, hogwash.
It's just a brand name and a marketing campaign.



bull ****.


BTW, the same marketing people who came up with V-power also came up with the idea that you need to change your oil every 3000 miles, at a jiffy-lube (shell owned).

Lots of mush-heads bought into that gimic too.
Yeah, I'd call BS, too. There's a Shell station a couple blocks from my house; most expensive gas in town (by about 15 cents). I fill up there occasionally, and I fill up at other stations occasionally. NEVER any difference in performance or mileage from one station to another.

Charles Freeborn 12-26-2015 08:12 PM
Yah, I search out clear gas. Fortunately here in OR there are several places that sell it. 110 octane race gas too. The old girl loves that juice!

-C


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