We're a 2 Volt family now

[wdfifteen]

There is a thread here about buying my Volt a couple of months ago. We went to see a blue car locally and it wasn't exactly how I wanted it appointed. They were asking $28,999 and that was out of the question. I offered $27000 and they declined.
I later found the car I wanted at the price I wanted to pay - $27,355 at another dealer. All done.

Except.

The local salesman sent me an email last week to let me know the blue car was still for sale. I just mentioned this to my wife and she was - "Let's go see it. I love your car." We walked in and she did all the talking. "We know all about the car, we had it for a weekend, all we need to know is the price." The guy says, "$28,000." She says, "$26,000." I was about to fall out of my chair. He had her sign the offer, took it to the manager, and came back, "Congratulations, you just bought yourself a Volt." The whole transaction took about 5 minutes.
After applying the tax credit it will cost us $18,500.

[ckelly78z]

I still wouldn't one for that price......just not a fan of EVs or Chevys.

[1990C4S]

You just had to mention the tax credit...cue the inevitable criticism....

[Nordwest]

cool cars

[Nickshu]

The Volt is awesome! Chevy is the only one who has gotten the EV/Hybrid thing right. The way the Volt works makes so much sense, why other hybrid makers don't do it the same way defies any logic. Congrats!

[Jim Richards]

Congrats on the nice acquisition / deal!

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

You just had to mention the tax credit...cue the inevitable criticism....

I was about to say "you're welcomed" since I paid for part of your car.

[mreid]

Well, you're 10 volts short of a full charge.

Congratulations on a score!

[lendaddy]

So do the pay you monthly if you lease it or is the projected resale horrendous?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

After applying the tax credit it will cost us $18,500.

Wow. No shame - so the rest of us get to help you buy your "salmon powered" car. That's what we call them up here in the PNW, the land of hydro-electric power (that we sell in abundance to California). Yup, keep it up - your "green" cars mean a greater burden on our already over taxed power grid, which will inevitably lead to more dams on our rivers.

All power comes from somewhere. There is no free lunch. There is a reason these cars are so heavily subsidized (by the rest of us) - their "power model" does not work. If it did, if it were truly viable - no subsidies would be necessary.

Congratulations - another liberal boondoggle the rest of us clearer thinking people get to support.

[Hugh R]

Jeff, he may well be the "clearer thinking" person. He got YOU to pay for it.

[RedBaron]

I'm sure in the duration of his life he has paid 10k in taxes... you guys aren't covering him. He is just gaming the system a little bit; i'm sure wealthy businessmen do the same. How many of you have kids that go to school and have Pell Grants?

Nice car, glad you're enjoying it.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Wow. No shame - so the rest of us get to help you buy your "salmon powered" car. That's what we call them up here in the PNW, the land of hydro-electric power (that we sell in abundance to California). Yup, keep it up - your "green" cars mean a greater burden on our already over taxed power grid, which will inevitably lead to more dams on our rivers.

All power comes from somewhere. There is no free lunch. There is a reason these cars are so heavily subsidized (by the rest of us) - their "power model" does not work. If it did, if it were truly viable - no subsidies would be necessary.

Congratulations - another liberal boondoggle the rest of us clearer thinking people get to support.

Your area of the grid is actually pretty good. Unless you work for an ISO/RTO and can clarify this further...

[Steve Carlton]

Looks like a great deal. I'd be tempted if I hadn't gotten a new car a year ago. 2015? What was the MSRP? Seems like around here $9-10K off MSRP is the bottom line before tax credits. Isn't there a state tax credit in Ohio?

Seems like it winds up being about half the MSRP after credits for a car that isn't worth near the MSRP, but is worth more than half. Then you save a ton on gas.

[Heel n Toe]

Subsidies? ... for? ... nevermind.
______________________________
Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
Analyst: 'This might be the most government-supported car since the Trabant'
By Tom Gantert | Dec. 21, 2011 |

(Editor’s note: This article has been updated with a reaction from a General Motor's official.)

Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

Hohman looked at total state and federal assistance offered for the development and production of the Chevy Volt, General Motors’ plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. His analysis included 18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. The amount of government assistance does not include the fact that General Motors is currently 26 percent owned by the federal government.

The Volt subsidies flow through multiple companies involved in production. The analysis includes adding up the amount of government subsidies via tax credits and direct funding for not only General Motors, but other companies supplying parts for the vehicle. For example, the Department of Energy awarded a $105.9 million grant to the GM Brownstown plant that assembles the batteries. The company was also awarded approximately $106 million for its Hamtramck assembly plant in state credits to retain jobs. The company that supplies the Volt’s batteries, Compact Power, was awarded up to $100 million in refundable battery credits (combination tax breaks and cash subsidies). These are among many of the subsidies and tax credits for the vehicle.

It’s unlikely that all the companies involved in Volt production will ever receive all the $3 billion in incentives, Hohman said, because many of them are linked to meeting various employment and other milestones. But the analysis looks at the total value that has been offered to the Volt in different aspects of production – from the assembly line to the dealerships to the battery manufacturers. Some tax credits and subsidies are offered for periods up to 20 years, though most have a much shorter time frame.

GM has estimated they’ve sold 6,000 Volts so far. That would mean each of the 6,000 Volts sold would be subsidized between $50,000 and $250,000, depending on how many government subsidy milestones are realized.

If those manufacturers awarded incentives to produce batteries the Volt may use are included in the analysis, the potential government subsidy per Volt increases to $256,824. For example, A123 Systems has received extensive state and federal support, and bid to be a supplier to the Volt, but the deal instead went to Compact Power. The $256,824 figure includes adding up the subsidies to both companies.

The $3 billion total subsidy figure includes $690.4 million offered by the state of Michigan and $2.3 billion in federal money. That’s enough to purchase 75,222 Volts with a sticker price of $39,828.

Additional state and local support provided to Volt suppliers was not included in the analysis, Hohman said, and could increase the level of government aid. For instance, the Volt is being assembled at the Poletown plant in Detroit/Hamtramck, which was built on land acquired by General Motors through eminent domain.

“It just goes to show there are certain folks that will spend anything to get their vision of what people should do,” said State Representative Tom McMillin, R-Rochester Hills. “It’s a glaring example of the failure of central planning trying to force citizens to purchase something they may not want. … They should let the free market make those decisions.”

“This might be the most government-supported car since the Trabant,” said Hohman, referring to the car produced by the former Communist state of East Germany.

According to GM CEO Dan Akerson, the average Volt owner makes $170,000 per year.

~~~~~

(Updated Information)

Greg Martin, director of Policy and Washington Communications for GM, wrote in an email, "While much less than the hundreds of billions of dollars that Japanese and Korean auto and battery manufacturers have received over the years, the investments provided by several different Administrations and Congresses to jump-start the country's fledgling battery technology and domestic electric vehicle industries (not just specifically for the Volt as Ford's offering will also use LG Chem batteries and Fisker will use the A123 system for example) matches the same foresight and innovation leadership that other countries are exhibiting and which America has historically taken pride in."

Martin added that the Mackinac Center's math was "simple and selective." However, he offered no data or specifics to support his assertion.

"This is a matter of simple math," said Hohman. "I added the known state and federal incentives that have been offered and divided by the number of Volts sold. If GM has additional information to add to the public data on the use of taxpayer money, I look forward to seeing it."

Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle [Michigan Capitol Confidential]

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Wow. No shame - so the rest of us get to help you buy your "salmon powered" car. That's what we call them up here in the PNW, the land of hydro-electric power (that we sell in abundance to California). Yup, keep it up - your "green" cars mean a greater burden on our already over taxed power grid, which will inevitably lead to more dams on our rivers.

All power comes from somewhere. There is no free lunch. There is a reason these cars are so heavily subsidized (by the rest of us) - their "power model" does not work. If it did, if it were truly viable - no subsidies would be necessary.

Congratulations - another liberal boondoggle the rest of us clearer thinking people get to support.

Not only that, I don't pay fuel tax so I get to use the roads for free! The best part is listening to people like you get their panties in a wad about it.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by RedBaron

I'm sure in the duration of his life he has paid 10k in taxes... you guys aren't covering him. He is just gaming the system a little bit; i'm sure wealthy businessmen do the same. How many of you have kids that go to school and have Pell Grants?

I paid more that $10,000 in taxes in the first quarter of this year.

My wife and I don't quite fit the profile of the rich liberal in John's outdated fairy tale. Rich liberals don’t even fit it. BMW and Mercedes sold over 600,000 cars in the US last year. Chevy only sold 18,000 Volts. I honestly don’t have the data, but I’d bet big money there are more rich liberals driving European luxury cars than Volts. Either that or there aren't many rich liberals in this country.

We make more than John’s $170,000 a year caricature, and we'd like to retire with some of it left after taxes. I've had my share of Mercedes and BMW sedans, and I'm not impressed with luxury cars any more. It doesn't make sense to spend $50,000 for an oil burner and pay 10 cents a mile for fuel when I can get a car that suits my needs for $18,500 and pay 2 cents per mile for fuel. I don't care if it runs on distilled weasel pee, if it costs 80% less, I'm on it. Rich liberals don’t stay rich by needlessly pissing money away.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Looks like a great deal. I'd be tempted if I hadn't gotten a new car a year ago. 2015? What was the MSRP? Seems like around here $9-10K off MSRP is the bottom line before tax credits. Isn't there a state tax credit in Ohio?
Seems like it winds up being about half the MSRP after credits for a car that isn't worth near the MSRP, but is worth more than half. Then you save a ton on gas.

MSRP on the blue one was about $35,000, on the gray one it was about $38,000. Ohio doesn't offer a tax credit, but I got a subsidy for installing a charging station at my office. Electricity at the office is 7 cents/kwh, while at home it's 13.7 cents.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Not only that, I don't pay fuel tax so I get to use the roads for free! The best part is listening to people like you get their panties in a wad about it.

In other words, you're trolling and enjoying it. Got it. Classy.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I paid more that $10,000 in taxes in the first quarter of this year.

Irrelevant to this particular discussion of subsidies for Volts.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

My wife and I don't quite fit the profile of the rich liberal in John's outdated fairy tale. Rich liberals don’t even fit it.

It's not that outdated and it's not a fairy tale... the numbers are certainly somewhat different by now, but the overall picture is still a nasty portrayal of one of the things that gubmint does that has a whole host of unintended consequences.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

BMW and Mercedes sold over 600,000 cars in the US last year. Chevy only sold 18,000 Volts. I honestly don’t have the data, but I’d bet big money there are more rich liberals driving European luxury cars than Volts. Either that or there aren't many rich liberals in this country.

Also irrelevant, since buyers of other cars don't get subsidies.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

We make more than John’s $170,000 a year caricature,

Exactly. So you're a guy who doesn't need a gubmint subsidy.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

and we'd like to retire with some of it left after taxes. I've had my share of Mercedes and BMW sedans, and I'm not impressed with luxury cars any more. It doesn't make sense to spend $50,000 for an oil burner and pay 10 cents a mile for fuel when I can get a car that suits my needs for $18,500 and pay 2 cents per mile for fuel. I don't care if it runs on distilled weasel pee, if it costs 80% less, I'm on it.

Just so you understand... smart economic thinking is that the gubmint subsidizing stuff like this is not what gubmint should be doing. You wanted it and you took it... twice... at others' expense... but it wasn't a need, same as those who rip us all off through the gubmint for other things they don't actually need.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Rich liberals don’t stay rich by needlessly pissing money away.

Obviously. Or not taking gubmint subsidies at the expense of others. Got it... this is all so simple and easily understandable after you explained it so cleverly.

And I refer you back to your enjoyment/panties statement.

Try to see it through someone else's perspective.

If you care.

[wdfifteen]

It all went right over your head John. You missed every point.

It is hypocritical for anyone who takes any of the deductions, credits, or rebates the IRS offers to complain about the tax advantages someone else takes advantage of.
People who take individual deductions, deductions for their kids, home mortgage deductions, etc., etc., etc., have no business criticizing EV buyers for taking what the IRS offers them.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

It's not that outdated and it's not a fairy tale... the numbers are certainly somewhat different by now, but the overall picture is still a nasty portrayal of one of the things that gubmint does that has a whole host of unintended consequences.

It purports to be a criticism of government support for EVs, but it includes every kind of government support for every kind of car. A useful and truthful report would have compared subsidies for IC cars with subsidies for EV cars.

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

Just so you understand... smart economic thinking is that the gubmint subsidizing stuff like this is not what gubmint should be doing.

Whether the government should be offering subsidies is a different conversation. The fact is, the subsidies ARE offered. Do you expect me to believe if you got $7500 tax credit on a new Mercedes you would turn it down on the principle that the government shouldn't offer it? Smart economic thinking is taking advantage of opportunities that are presented to you.