Two females graduate Ranger school...

[A930Rocket]

I'm on my phone and can't find the earlier thread on this. My apologies.

What are your thoughts?

Did they really pass without help?

I'm interested to hear from those that have been there.

First female soldiers to graduate from Army Ranger School


WASHINGTON — Two female soldiers will graduate from the Army’s legendary Ranger School this week, the first women to complete the course since it was opened to them on an experimental basis this year, the U.S. Army said Monday evening.

The two were part of a group of 19 female soldiers who passed a rigorous screening process to begin the physically demanding course that had been closed to women since it opened more than six decades ago.
The graduation on Friday will mark a key milestone on the military’s ongoing efforts to open front-line combat units to women. The military services have pledged to do so without compromising standards.
Students in the grueling two-month course are required to survive on little food and sleep despite demanding physical activity, including carrying more than 100 pounds of gear through mountains and swamps. It is considered the Army’s most physically challenging course.

USA TODAY
Army Ranger School tests if women are up to grueling challenge

The women started the regimen in April, but like many men they were required to retake a phase of the course if they didn’t pass on the first go.
Graduates get to wear the coveted Ranger tab, which signifies their completion of the Army’s premier small unit leadership course for the infantry and other front-line troops.
"Each Ranger School graduate has shown the physical and mental toughness to successfully lead organizations at any level," Army Secretary John McHugh said in a statement. "This course has proven that every soldier, regardless of gender, can achieve his or her full potential."
But the women will not be able to join the infantry or other so-called ground combat jobs, including the Ranger regiment, which remain closed to women, at least through this year.
Opening the course to women is part of an assessment that all services have been ordered to undertake to determine how best to open the infantry, special forces and other ground combat jobs by next year. The Pentagon has ordered that all occupations be open to women after this year.
The services can request a waiver from some jobs, but would need to provide an extensive justification for doing so.
The military services have been steadily opening jobs to women over recent years, but the infantry and special operations fields are the most physically demanding and require that troops live close together in often primitive field conditions.
"I promise you that the one thing we will not compromise on is standards," Gen. Martin Dempsey told a group of U.S. servicemen in Baghdad recently.

[Tishabet]

I was discussing this with my dad on a backpacking trip last summer, he graduated from Ranger school in the early 60s. His take was that Ranger school was physically grueling but that the primary challenge was mental, especially sleep deprevation paired with physical and mental exhaustion. His guess was that a woman would graduate on her own merit in the next few years, and I guess he was right.

[billh1963]

Hard to say. My son was at MArine Combat Training school at Camp Geiger when the four female marines graduated in 2013. On the most physically grueling part of the training the females were assigned guard duty.... They didn't actually do everything the guys did.

Don't know if the same thing happened at Ranger school. There's no doubt that in the current social and political environment many military officers would find it beneficial to their career to be inclusive.....even to the detriment of their people.

[red-beard]

Article posted in the other thread, the recent RASP had a 90% graduation rate, historic is 30%.

[red-beard]

Also Article here

Army Ranger School to graduate its first two women | Fox News

Previous threads

Changing Ranger standards... sad but true.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/864394-ranger-school-update.html?highlight=ranger

[dennis in se pa]

Lowering the requirements yields a better "success" rate. All those in charge get a medal and a promotion. Sort of like what is occurring in our schools.

[sammyg2]

If you lower the standards enough anyone can pass.

[jhynesrockmtn]

Sorry, but if you were not there you don't know. My son graduated 07-15 and started out with this group of women. RASP isn't RS. Just being physically strong does not get you through. The mental toughness to endure the weeks/months of sleep deprivation, starvation and constantly being beaten down are what gets you through in the end. These women went through a selection and training process prior to RS that got them prepared and in his opinion is not really sustainable but yielded the best of the best and he'd proudly serve with them. This article posted by one of the Cadre sums it up well.

Before I arrived at West Point at the age of 17, I had a very clear image of what a cadet was supposed to be. I pictured an athletic stud who was disciplined beyond reproach. A guy who could run all day, ruck all day, lift any weight, and conquer any obstacle. And when I showed up, that’s pretty much what I saw all around me. Honestly, at 5’8”, I felt like I was one of the weak links, as everyone else pretty much looked like a cross fit athlete. And then there were the girls.
The girls were all studs in their own rights, but in an environment dominated by alpha males, 88% of whom had captained a team in high school, they simply weren’t looked at the same way. They couldn’t run quite as fast, couldn’t do as many pushups, and in my day, they didn’t have to box like the men did.
They were simply weaker. That’s just the way we looked at it, and West Point wasn’t really a place for weakness. ranger-tab-limited-edition-sign-50
Over time, though, a funny thing happened. Some of these total stud guys started quitting. Yeah, they were physical specimens, but between the ears, they just didn’t have it. But lots of my “weaker” female classmates hung in there. By the end of plebe year, things had changed. More and more, it had less to do with physical ability and more to do with moral courage and personal discipline.
By the time we graduated from that God-forsaken place, you had no choice but to love every last one of your classmates – man and woman, stud and less than, cool cats and weirdos alike, because to get through that place requires more intestinal fortitude than I can explain to anyone who didn’t go there.
We went our separate ways and shortly thereafter, I found myself at Ranger School, which is another terrible place. Things that happened to me at Ranger School in no particular order: lost 55 pounds, fell off a mountain, got stress fractures in both of my feet, scorpion bites, spider bites, minor muscle tear, **** my pants due to food poisoning, went to the brink of being a heat casualty but got saved by a massive rainstorm, got fire ant bites on my penis, saw magical creatures of the forest because of sleep deprivation, and sank a boat. Nevertheless, I graduated as a member of class 7-99 in the prescribed 62 days. I vowed I would never step foot in that ****ing place again.
God has a sense of humor and after several years of leading infantrymen, I found myself back at Ranger School, this time as a member of the cadre. I’ve never been around a more professional group of people. They have one standard. The Ranger standard.
Which brings me to today. Two women from West Point are about to graduate from Ranger School.
I’d be lying if I told you I thought it would happen. I didn’t.
When I heard everyone failed Darby, I shrugged and said, “Of course they did. It’s too hard.”
When I heard everyone failed the second time, I said, “Of course they did. What did anyone expect?”
When “feminists” ranted in the New York Times that they were being picked on by an unprofessional cadre and that’s the reason they weren’t passing, I said, “That wouldn’t happen. The cadre wouldn’t diminish themselves like that. There is only one standard. The Ranger Standard.”
And then I heard a handful were getting a third shot. Lots of men immediately started freaking out saying they were getting special treatment. “No, I explained. If the cadre believes in a student, and the student is willing to accept a Day 1 recycle, they can get another shot. There is only one standard. The Ranger Standard.” That’s the way it was when I was there. That’s the way it is now. It was telling that all of the women didn’t get the third shot. If they had, everyone would know it was bull****. The cadre had gone to bat for them.
A few capitalized on that third shot. They made it to Mountains. I heard through the grapevine that they had received solid peer scores. This was also awesome news. You see when you arrive at Ranger School, you kind of show up with friends. The Officers. The Bat Boys. The 82nd guys. The SEALS. But something magical happens as you go through it – the more you suffer, the more you start hating the weak links. You literally start hating them. It doesn’t matter if you drank every weekend together before Ranger School, if a guy was a spotlight Ranger or didn’t pitch in, they were going to get peered out. Officer, Bat Boy, 82nd…it didn’t ****ing matter. If you were good, you were staying. If you weren’t, we kind of wanted you to die.
That didn’t happen to these women. Their squad valued them.
I found myself starting to root for them, but I also knew mountains was a sonofa*****. The constant climbing breaks you physically in a way that the Darby phase simply doesn’t. I was pretty sure the journey was about to end.
But it didn’t. They drove on yet again.
Two women had made it to Florida, the final phase. Florida is an odd phase – very few people fail at that point, but the summer heat is brutal and the chances of being a heat casualty are high.
But the heat didn’t stop them. RangerCreed
Two women have endured over 120 days of abject misery to pass the most elite leadership course in the military. Two members of the long gray line are now Ranger Qualified.
And I’m proud of them beyond comprehension, but more than that, I’m blown away. I’m blown away, because I know how hard that school is. I know how much it takes out of you. I know how many times you feel like you might not make it, and you have to make the decision to just keep putting one foot in front of the other. I know how many times I wanted to quit. And I also know that these two ladies are not men. They don’t have my frame. They don’t have my muscle mass. They don’t have my testosterone levels. Which means they hurt more than I did. Which means they had to dig deeper than I did. And they made it anyway. And they suffered for four months to do it.
And that means they’re tougher than I am.
And that’s exactly who I want leading our soldiers.
Now, I don’t know what all of this means for the infantry, or by extension the SOF community. I am well aware that these are different things than passing a course.
The Army will figure that out in time.
But what I do know is that the hate being leveled at these Rangers is unacceptable. We want leaders who push themselves beyond their limits. We want leaders who want to excel and develop every way they can. Whether the Army integrates units or not, that doesn’t change the fact that these ladies are hard as **** and are the absolute best America has to offer. They literally have no quit in them.
So, as the proud saying goes, Rangers Lead the Way.
And ladies, you just did.

[Rikao4]

BS..simply cannot agree...
while these ' ladies' are tough..
they were given multiple chances & recycled until SOMEBODY passed...

Rika

[vash]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

If you lower the standards enough anyone can pass.

even us?

maybe, i did just a sit up when i got up out of bed

[HHI944]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Article posted in the other thread, the recent RASP had a 90% graduation rate, historic is 30%.

That was the article I posted. RASP is an entirely different bag of worms than Ranger School. In fact, a good number of those at RASP haven't even been to Ranger School.
RASP is merely an evaluation tool for admittance to 75th RR and a Ranger tab isn't required for junior enlisted in Regiment.

[widgeon13]

??

Rene Richards and Caitlyn Jenner

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by vash

even us?

maybe, i did just a sit up when i got up out of bed

They'd have to dig a really deep ditch to get the bar low enough for me to pass nowadays.
But my prime was 36 years ago and i didn't do well with discipline.


There's no doubt these women are stronger and tougher than I am.
But that doesn't make them rangers.
Equal doesn't mean easier.

[when cadet Seeger fails to climb wall] You're one of those girls who couldn't get enough of daddy's attention because he really wanted a son...That's right, walk around, Sugar Britches!

[mikester]

I'm not military or anything but I don't see any reason why a woman couldn't be anything she wanted if she wanted it enough.

There shouldn't be obstacles in place because she's a woman, she should be treated equally with the ability to earn the same opportunities.

This means that the men in charge shouldn't treat anyone differently.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by mikester

I'm not military or anything but I don't see any reason why a woman couldn't be anything she wanted if she wanted it enough.

There shouldn't be obstacles in place because she's a woman, she should be treated equally with the ability to earn the same opportunities.

This means that the men in charge shouldn't treat anyone differently.

spot on.

i don't advocate lowing standards for anyone, but its crazy to think that 100% of all women, everywhere, could not pass the tests. and it would be dumb to ban them from even trying if even if that were the case. the only reason to ban them on gender alone would be because you are afraid of them passing the test on there merits.

if your confident your test is the right metric to making a good ranger, then gender shouldn't play a role at all. it shouldn't need to.

there are some seriously bad ass women out there. and i am 100% confident that one of them, somewhere, could do it. and if you are so sure they cannot pass your test ... then let them try?

id be terrified to face this little lady in any physical confrontation:

[Tobra]

I am sure these women passed whatever standards were required of them.

[Gretch]

They got participation trophies so bammy can once again declare victory. Complete sham and I feel bad for the poor bastards that get deployed with these phonies.

[M.D. Holloway]

it will all be a thing of the past when the drones rise

[intakexhaust]

Here's what I don't get. The taxpayer invest in these elite few, but the Army has not approved the woman 'Ranger' to serve on the front duty.

Is it because they don't really have confidence in them?

[Tobra]

No, it is because they have to be practical about it.