Monza F1

[javadog]

I agree that Mercedes has the best engine, but I think they also have a pretty nice chassis, too. And, I hate the lack of testing, as much as I also dislike limiting strategy options like refuelling, or making changes to the car after qualifying, or being able to select whatever tire they want, etc.

The fact is, F1 is seldom equal for long. Whether someone has a better idea (Lotus, in 1977, Williams in 1994; or maybe McLaren in the early 80's) or a better engine (Tag turbo, assorted Ferraris, etc.) or the best designer (Newey... lately) or better drivers (Schumi, Senna, Prost) , a better strategist (Brawn) or whatever, one team has often kicked butt and taken no prisoners. It would be interesting to study whether the biggest budget, or the best designer, or the best driver, etc. has the most impact on success, long term.

Sometimes I think they change the formula, just to mix things up a little.

JR

[arcsine]

Yes, he has the best chassis/engine package but Hamilton IS a very good driver. I don't care much for his personality but other than Ricciardo, the whole lot of them are walking fragile ego cases prone to *****ing and moaning about whatever does not serve them. But I watch simply because I see skill and ability doing something I cannot. I do not have to like them to appreciate them.

Just posing a hypothetical question; If you could choose one driver to put into your car to win the championship, who would it be?

[javadog]

Alonso.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by javadog

Alonso.

agree 100%, he is ruthless

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

agree 100%, he is ruthless

+2. Which is why the current rules frustrate me so much. It will be 2 years before Honda even has a chance of contending. What a waste...

[pitargue]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

You are correct in terms of eras of domination, but that does not cover how those dominations happened... Used to be "the perfect team" or "a good idea with better implementation", whatever.... but back then the others were free to catch up if they managed to spend enough in the right place or improve more, or hire that driver....

My beef is that this is pretty much impossible now with the engine tokens and lack of testing. Mercedes has enjoyed a (deserved) 2 year advantage with zero hope of catch up from other teams and will likely extend that advantage into the next 2 years. If everyone does a more or less equal job with their tokens (which is likely), Mercedes will retain its big margin. Ferrari got close only when Mercedes messed up strategy or during weird weather conditions that suited the chassis a little better. Overall it's clear the Merc is still 1sec a lap above the rest, maybe more if they wanted to.

It may result into the same domination as before, but knowing it's very close to hopeless for the others under the new rules makes it boring to me now... I proclaimed last year on this site HAM was gonna win 2014 and 2015. I promise you he will also win 2016 unless he's poisoned by a bad hair dye or tatoo ink... Best car. Best engine.

This.

I find it laughable that people argue that F1 leads in technology. How does that work when there's little to no development or testing during the racing season?

Bench racing is fun!

[javadog]

Well, to say that there's no testing or development is not correct. There's a lot of it, not that we are privy to it. It's less than the insane amount that occurred previously, but the thousands of people employed in F1, not counting those you see at the races, are mostly definitely very busy.

Look for the videos that Red Bull produced a few years ago that talked about the pace of development between races. The number of individual changes they considered and/or tried was mind-blowing.

JR

[nostatic]

You can do a lot in modeling and simulation - and the top teams are constantly working that angle. So the amount of testing and development that goes on is staggering. It just isn't at the track.

[javadog]

In this video, from 2013, it is mentioned that Red Bull runs about 30,000 design changes through the system, in a season.

https://youtu.be/hFJ3ta-0O5c

Most of those, you probably weren't aware of...

JR

[pitargue]

And none of this is catching Mercedes.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by pitargue

This.

I find it laughable that people argue that F1 leads in technology. How does that work when there's little to no development or testing during the racing season?

Bench racing is fun!

The rate of development and testing behind closed doors in complete secrecy is relentless during the race season. Like an arms race with 1000's of people flat out trying to add performance to their teams cars, 0.02sec here, another 0.02 there to catch up other team's, stay ahead of other teams or just to qualify within the 107% cut off.

What you see on the track during Fri. is just the tip of the iceberg due to limited testing mileage.

I could discuss all day about how F1 leads in technology but somehow I don't think it would change your opinion. Sadly most of this is transparent when watching the racing which is the exposure most people have to F1.

[pitargue]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

I could discuss all day about how F1 leads in technology but somehow I don't think it would change your opinion. Sadly most of this is transparent when watching the racing which is the exposure most people have to F1.

Any sport, business, competition, etc would put as much resources as it possibly can to be the zenith if the actors are serious about the participation. And F1 seems to have horns-a-plenty when it comes to bank accounts...

I'm more of the perspective of the rules of the F1 game and how it's preventing true real world (engine) development so that other teams can catch up. If F1 is truly the technological edge, then barring/restricting engine development during the racing season seems contrary to this label put on F1.

Now, to continue the bench racing in the spirit of fun, some would say that WRC cars are more technologically advanced due to the different road conditions they drive on. :-) Would like an insiders perspective on that.

[javadog]

WRC cars are pretty basic by the standards of today. If you want technology outside of F1, look to the WEC cars. I think they have the best rule package of any series.

JR

[450knotOffice]

Originally Posted by arcsine

Just posing a hypothetical question; If you could choose one driver to put into your car to win the championship, who would it be?

Alonso.

[javadog]

One thing that bears mentioning about the Honda situation is that I think they are not solely to blame for their problems. They took some direction from McLaren, in that I think the concept for the car was based around some pretty tight packaging ideas. This forced them to make decisions on the engine layout and some of the components that are now biting them in the ass. And, they had to turn down the performance from the start because of inadequate cooling.

Not to mention that the McLaren chassis is a bit of a dog... Nice to be able to hide your mistakes in someone else's shame...

JR

[yellowperil]

Alonso is having a miserable time at McLaren, perhaps for how he acted on his first stint there. IMO

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by javadog

WRC cars are pretty basic by the standards of today. If you want technology outside of F1, look to the WEC cars. I think they have the best rule package of any series.

JR

LMP1 racing is awesome, the technology in some areas probably leads F1, F1 could learn a lot from how the LMP1 rules are structured. I don't think they could be translated directly but with a bit of tweaking I'm sure the F1 show could be improved.

Any production car based racing or rally series is way behind on the technology stakes. Too many compromises are inherited from the base production car. That is not to say WRC isn't a huge challenge as correctly pointed out by pitargue.

Safe to say I've experienced first hand the inside of a few works team honeycombs, each has its own unique differences but the common goal is make the fastest car you can, within the rules using the money and resources available.

If I the freedom to choose what race vehicle to work on next it would be without a doubt an LMP1 car, then Moto GP, then WRC and finally a works Paris Dakar car. For now its F1 for me as in Hotel California in the Eagles song, 'You can check-out anytime you like but you can never leave!'

[javadog]

I thought you were going to do a bit of gardening...

JR

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by javadog

I thought you were going to do a bit of gardening...

JR

I have been in the garden, keeping myself busy working 12hrs a day, 7 days a week for the nearly 3 months building myself a zombie proof boundary stone wall

Got to say hard manual labour is really good for the soul and clearing the head.

My last gig really took big chunks out of me but I've had enough of a rest now and itching to rejoin the circus