Home Solar Tech Anyone Have any straight poop.

[Jim Bremner]

I live in Sunny California and I'm talking to a firm about adding solar to me roof.

They're offering 18 panels for $25,380 less the 30% government rebate dropping it down to $17,766 with 12 year payment plan with 3.99% interest so figure $160 and a few cents.

Our current bills on a 12 month average runs $147

Of course SCE can raise their rates multiple times in the 12 years and our payment will be higher but our ROI is12 years until our electricity will be almost free ( we've been told that our summer months might run an additional $150 a month.

Any help?

[Scott R]

Only a few items, first my system was "half" complete with just panels. For my system to be efficient it needed a 20k investment in battery systems to support the half of the day the sun was down, and cloudy days.

Second you're looking at 12 years, will you need a new roof before then? It gets very expensive to have everything removed, and then replaced during a roof replacement. It's something to consider in your ROI equation.

The rest of my issues are weather related like hale damage, so that's not an issue for you.

I will likely go with Redox shortly and retire the panels.

[Jim Bremner]

Redox?

[Scott R]

Redox Power Systems

Waiting on city natural gas to my mountain home for it.

[look 171]

Agree with Scott, Jim, put on a new roof if you can for this. I have not had the pleasure of installing any solar panels to any of my projects. Most of my clients can't stand looking at them so they are willing to fork out for the electric bill.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

I live in Sunny California and I'm talking to a firm about adding solar to me roof.

They're offering 18 panels for $25,380 less the 30% government rebate dropping it down to $17,766 with 12 year payment plan with 3.99% interest so figure $160 and a few cents.

Our current bills on a 12 month average runs $147

Of course SCE can raise their rates multiple times in the 12 years and our payment will be higher but our ROI is12 years until our electricity will be almost free ( we've been told that our summer months might run an additional $150 a month.

Any help?

Send me a PM. I'll see if we can help you out. We make a product call Mi-Grid. Mi-Grid Hybrid Energy System

My systems are usually 250 Watt panels, 20 = 5 kW. A 5 kW Grid-Tied system is around $15-20K here. With Mi-Grid, it will go up to around $26K. With Mi-Grid you never lose power and you save 30% more than most grid-tied systems.

[Crowbob]

I looked at the Redox site. Still don't know what it does or how it works. Here in Michigan solar makes no sense for other than back-up short-term emergency battery power for low-voltage lighting.

How does this Redox thing work?

[red-beard]

Fuel Cell. The reformer strips hydrogen off the fuel then combines it with oxygen to make electricity.

GE tried to do a home version for YEARS after buying Plug Power.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

I looked at the Redox site. Still don't know what it does or how it works. Here in Michigan solar makes no sense for other than back-up short-term emergency battery power for low-voltage lighting.

How does this Redox thing work?

It's just a multi-fuel fuel cell, runs on about anything, jp-8, diesel, waste oil, biomass. Very low input, very stable output regardless of weather conditions. 50 to 60% efficiency. For me it's an "all weather" solution.

[Crowbob]

OK. Right now my ol' brain pan is running at 65% capacity. I'm gonna do some more learnin' about this.

Thank you, gentlemen.

[red-beard]

Redox also currently not available.

[Scuba Steve]

What people are saying about going solar at the same time you re-roof is true. I was told the same thing by my neighbor who is a solar contractor when I asked about it for our place. Your roof also needs to be able to support the load, so it will help to know how it's framed.

[red-beard]

Steve. Putting solar on at the same time you re-roof is a good idea. And match the roof so that you have at least a 20 year life.

Knowing where to put the supports is key, but it can be done by going into the attic and examining the framing.

[tadd]

I dug into the solar stuff pretty heavy a few years back before life did a 180 on me.

My biggest recommendation is to look really hard at the micro inverter stuff.

Basically each panel gets its own inverter instead of piping the DC to a single large one. Back a few years ago it cost a bit more, but I would guess that isn't the case anymore. It has big advantages in performance and uptime since things like a shaded panel (or covered, say leaves) doesn't affect the whole system. Same for a panel going bad. In addition, it is granularly scalable. you can add a panel at a time if you like since 'each panel' outputs AC.

[David]

I looked into fuel cells a few months ago for a project including an informative call with Bloom Energy. I found unless you need 300 KW or more, it's just not ready for consumer use.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by tadd

I dug into the solar stuff pretty heavy a few years back before life did a 180 on me.

My biggest recommendation is to look really hard at the micro inverter stuff.

Basically each panel gets its own inverter instead of piping the DC to a single large one. Back a few years ago it cost a bit more, but I would guess that isn't the case anymore. It has big advantages in performance and uptime since things like a shaded panel (or covered, say leaves) doesn't affect the whole system. Same for a panel going bad. In addition, it is granularly scalable. you can add a panel at a time if you like since 'each panel' outputs AC.

The problem is...it is more expensive than standard grid tied. And adding a "panel at a time" is not practical due to the mounting systems.

Also, without storage, when the utility goes out, you are still offline.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by David

I looked into fuel cells a few months ago for a project including an informative call with Bloom Energy. I found unless you need 300 KW or more, it's just not ready for consumer use.

GE plowed about $100M into Plug Power and it amounted to nothing. I would LOVE to replace the generator in Mi-Grid with a fuel cell!

[Scuba Steve]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Steve. Putting solar on at the same time you re-roof is a good idea. And match the roof so that you have at least a 20 year life.

Knowing where to put the supports is key, but it can be done by going into the attic and examining the framing.

Yup! That's why I had additional lumber sistered in when we raised the ceiling in the family room up to the rafters. When the existing roof needs to go it will be the perfect time to add solar to a huge unobstructed southwest roof exposure our house has. There are also plenty of pictures of it so we'll be ready when the time comes. Hopefully storage will come down in cost by then but of course, who really knows.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

Of course SCE can raise their rates multiple times in the 12 years and our payment will be higher but our ROI is12 years until our electricity will be almost free ( we've been told that our summer months might run an additional $150 a month.

The value prop here for leasing was that my kw/hr rates with APS get locked in for 20 yrs., while they usually raise their rates 5-7% per year. So now APS is saying solar customers aren't paying their fair share to maintain the grid, and APS is trying to raise fees by 400%. Gee, who didn't see that coming?

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

I live in Sunny California and I'm talking to a firm about adding solar to me roof.

They're offering 18 panels for $25,380 less the 30% government rebate dropping it down to $17,766 with 12 year payment plan with 3.99% interest so figure $160 and a few cents.

Our current bills on a 12 month average runs $147

Of course SCE can raise their rates multiple times in the 12 years and our payment will be higher but our ROI is12 years until our electricity will be almost free ( we've been told that our summer months might run an additional $150 a month.

Any help?

Jim,

The better way to look at the value prop is $/kWh produced.

The Solar panels have a minimum 20 year life. They are guaranteed to produce 80% of nameplate power after 20 years. Calculate the kWh production and divide by the cost.

kWh production = Nameplate rating x solar factor x 1.3

The solar factor is based on maps of your area. It is he kilowatt hours produced per day per kilowatt of nameplate. These maps were produced using STANDARD charge controllers.

The 1.3 factor is for using an MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) charge controller. Almost everyone uses MPPT these days, although I can make a case for using standard charge controllers and more solar panels! MPPT is a DC-DC converter. The system plays with the voltage and current in the solar panel until V*I is a maximum.

That that kWh number multiply is by 6570 to get the total kWh produce over 20 years, with a 1% de-rating per year. Divide that number by the system cost and compare to your $/kWh you are presently paying.