illegals have some kind of tax ID? Is it true?

[look 171]

Had a light lunch at my local joint with my wife today. We were yapping with the owner and the subject came up when I mention how nice and hardworking this waiter was to us. He's said that he better be because folks tip him a lot and he pays tax like us. He goes on to tell me that many illegals, like him, have a tax ID so they can pay taxes. I am a little shocked anyone know about this?

[pc100porsche]

Yup it's correct --- government still wants tax even if you're illegal -- I saw the exact same thing on a recent documentary on the subject (seemed crazy to me too)

[jyl]

The IRS wants to collect taxes from everyone, no matter what they are doing.

You don't need to show citizenship or legal visa to get a tax ID.

I've heard that bookies, etc, pay taxes even where gambling is illegal.

Al Capone was jailed for tax evasion, not for his underlying crimes.

Kind of makes sense to me - why let illegals evade taxes when legals are paying? That would give illegals an advantage in the workplace.

[Tervuren]

The most employers are allowed to do in most states, is check that a number is valid. Social Security #'s can be identical to tax ID numbers. Just pick something in your region and get a date range of some one that isn't dead, and you're pretty safe.

[stomachmonkey]

ITIN, Individual Tax Identification Number.

The function of the IRS is to collect taxes.

There are plenty of legal immigrants here who are not eligible for a SS# but who earn taxable income. ITIN# provides a vehicle for them to file.

Likewise there are plenty of illegal immigrants here who are not eligible for a SS# but who earn taxable income. ITIN# provides a vehicle for them to file.

As JYL points out, Capone was jailed for tax evasion, not the illegal activities that earned him the money that he did not pay taxes on.

It's on your 1040.

"Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040) if from your self-employment activity."

Now here's the kicker, due to tax privacy laws the IRS can't share your admission of illegal activities which is why bookies can file and not risk too much.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

Social Security #'s can be identical to tax ID numbers.

Same number of digits but all ITIN's start with 9 so the system can identify them as there are exemptions like Child Tax Credit that ITIN payers can't claim.

[look 171]

So, all illegals can get this tax ID, apply for a job and under cut all our red blooded American kids who are about to enter the entry level workforce. When I was in HS, Lot of kids would get summer jobs at the Micky Ds or car wash. Now, no more, all grown men and women (In many ways, I find them to be much nice to deal with).

[look 171]

Employers write a check at the end of the week to them, just like a regular employee? That would make it illegal for the employer to have illegals working for them.

[sammyg2]

They need to get one so they can get earned income credit, and social security, and ...........

everyone else's money.

[Deschodt]

Anyone can get an ITIN. Say you are foreigner buying a house in the US, which sooner or later involves taxes, you need one. Nothing illegal about this. It allows you to pay taxes, it does not grant you citizenship ;-) As pointed out above, if your employer checks for a valid SSN for employment, the TIN will not come out as one.

See it as a good thing.... Everyone "can" pay taxes ;-)

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by look 171

Employers write a check at the end of the week to them, just like a regular employee?

Well for legal and entitled to work immigrants yes.

For illegals maybe, (most likely) no.

The IRS does not care if the income you earn is legal or not.

People who report illegal income do it to avoid additional charges / jail time if they get caught engaging in their illegal activity.

In JYL's bookie example, if the bookie reports his illegal income there is very little that may happen. The IRS can not legally divulge that he is profiting from illegal activities without a court order. In order for there to be a court order then the guy is already under investigation.

If he is caught and indicted the penalty for gambling is a slap on the wrist to some jail time. Jail time is really dependent on whether he's a guy simply taking bets on the corner or if he's involved with an organized criminal enterprise, RICO.

If he has made good money and not reported it the IRS penalty is likely far worse (more jail time) than the gambling conviction alone.

So why risk the extra jail time for both convictions especially when reporting illegal income has a low risk of getting you caught engaging in illegal activity.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

They need to get one so they can get earned income credit, and social security, and ...........

everyone else's money.

No, ITIN's all start with the number 9 so that they can be identified as belonging to individuals who are not eligible for that stuff.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

See it as a good thing.... Everyone "can" pay taxes ;-)

Exactly

[fintstone]

Seems like they are used to establish the length of time one has been here working illegally...as that is a prime consideration for amnesty.

As far as I know, filing under an ITIN does not prevent an illegal from accessing social welfare.

If an immigrant later becomes eligible for Social Security, earnings reported with an ITIN may be counted toward the amount he or she is eligible to receive.

It also allows them to work for an employer who needs a way to file taxes on wages....and allows the immigrant to get a tax return.

[fintstone]

Immigrants "qualified" to receive benefits:
Lawful permanent residents, or LPRs (persons with green cards).
Refugees, persons granted asylum or withholding of deportation/removal, and conditional entrants.
Persons granted parole by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) for a period of at least one year.
Cuban and Haitian entrants.
Certain abused immigrants, their children, and/or their parents.[5]
Certain victims of trafficking.[6]
All other immigrants, including undocumented immigrants as well as many persons lawfully present in the U.S., are considered “not qualified.”

Exceptions:

The law includes important exceptions for certain types of services. Regardless of their status, “not qualified” immigrants remained eligible for emergency Medicaid [13] if they are otherwise eligible for their state’s Medicaid program.[14] The law does not restrict access to public health programs providing immunizations and/or treatment of communicable disease symptoms (whether or not those symptoms are caused by such a disease). School breakfast and lunch programs remain open to all children regardless of immigration status, and every state has opted to provide access to the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC).[15] Short-term noncash emergency disaster assistance remains available without regard to immigration status. Also exempted from the restrictions are other in-kind services necessary to protect life or safety, as long as no individual or household income qualification is required. In January 2001, the U.S. attorney general published a final order specifying the types of benefits that meet these criteria. The attorney general’s list includes child and adult protective services; programs addressing weather emergencies and homelessness; shelters, soup kitchens, and meals-on-wheels; medical, public health, and mental health services necessary to protect life or safety; disability or substance abuse services necessary to protect life or safety; and programs to protect the life or safety of workers, children and youths, or community residents.[16]

In many cases, states do not have to check status:
Verification Rules

When a federal agency designates a program as a federal public benefit foreclosed to “not qualified” immigrants, the law requires the state or local agency to verify the immigration and citizenship status of all applicants. However, many federal agencies have not specified which of their programs provide federal public benefits. Until they do so, state and local agencies are not obligated to verify immigration status. Also, under an important exception contained in the 1996 immigration law, nonprofit charitable organizations are not required to “determine, verify, or otherwise require proof of eligibility of any applicant for such benefits.” This exception relates specifically to the immigrant benefits restrictions in the 1996 laws.[17]https://www.nilc.org/overview-immeligfedprograms.html

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Seems like they are used to establish the length of time one has been here working illegally...as that is a prime consideration for amnesty.

May be used by illegals for that purpose but it is not the purpose of an ITIN.

Originally Posted by fintstone

As far as I know, filing under an ITIN does not prevent an illegal from accessing social welfare.

Nor does filing for and receiving an ITIN grant an illegal access to social welfare programs that he/she is not eligible for.

[johnsjmc]

Years ago the IRS gave out regular ss numbers to foreign citizens for various reasons . I think the ITIN came along after 911. My mother ( a Toronto born Canadian citizen)has a number she got about 30 yrs ago because my father had emmigrated to the US and was deducting taxes from her alimony payments. She filed to get them back I believe although she has never lived in the US.
My wife and I have Itin numbers because we bought and sold a couple of properties in Florida ,we are also both Cdn citizens and have never lived or worked in the US
It never occurred to me there might be any hidden benefits. Are we missing out on some pension or other credits ?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by johnsjmc

...are we missing out on some pension or other credits ?

fify

[johnsjmc]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

fify

I couldn,t figure out how to do green font thanks

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

May be used by illegals for that purpose but it is not the purpose of an ITIN...

Yes, the purpose is to provide noncitizens in this country legally a mechanism to pay federal taxes.