Ebay Debacle - Some PPOT Wisdom, Please.

[Don Ro]

I'll see if I can make this brief.
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Been looking for a vintage receiver so I bid and "won" a Marantz 2325 on Ebay.
Seller has 100% positive Ebay experience and his ad said, "100 operational".
Here's the Ebay ad.
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Marantz 2325 Receiver Cabinet Serviced New Lights Strong 100 Operational | eBay
.
~~~~~~~~~
Through emails I ask the seller to include the "serviced" invoice or something from the servicer annotating what was found and done, etc.
Seller says that he doesn't have anything because it was done a year or so ago, but will take the receiver back to the old retired coot to perform an updated test, etc.
A week or so later I call the old retired coot who tells me that he's found a couple of things...wants to cannibalize a resistor off another 2325 and install.
I'm thinking "WTF?"
Two weeks after "winning" the auction, it arrives and I fire it up. The first thing I notice is that the tuner dial needle light is out.
The next day I notice that the Stereo light stopped illuminating.
I email the seller and he says, "Hmm, I replaced those bulbs. You may have a gremlin."
.
Now I've moved from suspicious to being pissed.
So the next day I take the receiver to AudioDoctor in Phoenix ...
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Home - AudioDoctor by Cornell Smith
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And I email AudioDoctor's web link to the seller - who calls and speaks with Cornell Smith, owner.
.
A few days later I get this email pdf from AudioDoctor:

"Problems in both output stages:
Left channel bias is near zero and cannot be regulated, will require
troubleshooting to component level.
Right channel had out of tolerance (150mV) DC offset, adjustment
is unstable and drifting. Distortion measures .18%, spec .15%. Will
require troubleshooting to component level.
Estimate to correct above $325."
.
A few days after that, an email from AudioDoctor:

"Right now I’m concerned with getting the electronics working properly so it will be reliable. Found a couple of bad transistors in one channel, but there is still an issue. Will resume tomorrow."
.
I email the seller who basically tells me that he can't be responsible for what I did to the receiver.
I email back and say that he can either pay for the service to the 2325 to bring it to the state of his claim of "100% operational" or he can refund me along with the cost to ship back to him.
He tells me to go fly a kite - basically.
.
So what's my next step, Ebay gurus?
.
.
Oh, and this - seller emailed to say that it had been shipped and that he included a "gift" to me.
So when I opened the box I found a set of speaker cables with gold fittings and an unopened Willie Nelson album.
My first response - being somewhat familiar with human nature - "Is this some kind of manipulation/smoke screen?"
But I blew that off...until....
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Any assistance/advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[LeeH]

As a seller, I'd just take it back. If I were to post something as 100% operational, that's going to mean I turned it on, got clean output out of all channels, all inputs tested, and it's been making nice sounds for many, many hours with no snap, crackles, pops, or smoke.

BUT, that doesn't mean things like bias has been tested.

This is the very reason I shy away from selling stuff like this on eBay. What's 100% operational to me, might not be 100% operational to the buyer. And, eBay and PayPal will always side with the buyer. At the price you paid, I would think 100% operational would be expected.

[RANDY P]

complain to Ebay. THey'll fix it for you. I got a free amplifier out of it once when I got stuck with a POS.

They refunded me.

[Don Ro]

Ebay itself refunded you?...and not the seller?
Frankly, I'd like to keep the Marantz but the seller won't pay for any service.
I'm so pissed off.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

I hate thread jacking- I don't have anything to add (sorry) about how to rectify the situation- but I do have a question.

My father has several Marantz receivers- including the 2325- some of which in good condition, and some of which with blown channels and whatnot. Assuming they become mine in the future (maybe- maybe not) and hopefully years off in the future- how does one honestly assess and represent them for sale. For example, I can't say "This channel has 18% distortion" or whatever. I know very little about them, other than we listened to John William's Star Wars and Abba to them in the 70's, and that they are highly regarded today.
If they ever became mine, I would probably keep his 2325, but he has at least 2 others which I would probably sell- where do I take it NOT to misrepresent them such as happened here? A local stereo geek? How does one even find their local quadrophonic guru?
Unlike his p-cars, which have long rusted out in the woods, these might still work in varying degrees. Thoughts?
Edit- I SWEAR I am not "phishing" (or whatever it is called)- I have wondered about this occasionally in the past and your picture of the reciever (and the wooden cover) brings back a lot of memories and questions about how to deal with the others in the future.

[Don Ro]

Pay an audio service to test and give you a printout.
Something like less than $100 I'd guess.
Then go on Ebay, audio forums, and/or CL and look see.
Now get off my lawn!

[dad911]

Hate to say it, but lights were on in ad/pictures. Old electronics, vibration in shipping, etc, not sure I'd blame seller 100%.... I know it was expensive, but no warranty on 30 yo electronics, nor would I want to take back electronics that someone else worked on.

Audio-doctor and 'old coot' are using two different standards. Old Coot made it work, Audio-doctor is restoring it to new specs.

I'd ask seller if he will split the $325.

[Don Ro]

Thanks.
" Audio-doctor is restoring it to new specs."
.
One might think that "100% operational" would mean "in spec".
Seller is obstinate...not willing to budge.
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I thought that if I approached Ebay with my sad story and formally asked for a total refund - including shipping back - that the seller would get off his sorry ass and be willing to contribute.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

Thanks.
" Audio-doctor is restoring it to new specs."
.
One might think that "100% operational" would mean "in spec".
Seller is obstinate...not willing to budge.
.
I thought that if I approached Ebay with my sad story and formally asked for a total refund - including shipping back - that the seller would get off his sorry ass and be willing to contribute.

If you buy a 100% running car, gears/syncros in trans are worn & have backlash, and engine has less compression/more leakdown, etc......

I agree, send eBay report from service tech....

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by LeeH

As a seller, I'd just take it back. If I were to post something as 100% operational, that's going to mean I turned it on, got clean output out of all channels, all inputs tested,

I'd stop there. I know more about cars than amps, but I wouldn't hesitate to sell a car as "operational" if all the systems functioned. If a buyer came back and said the brake fluid was old and there was 5% leakage in cylinder #5 I'd just give the guy his money back and find a reasonable buyer.

[Don Ro]

"Hate to say it, but lights were on in ad/pictures."
~~~~~~
Yes, bulbs were illuminated at first...then they went out.
Dial indicator needle bulb began to go out and back on as I scanned back and forth.
If that was all there was, I'd be willing to break it down and replace w/LEDs, no problem for me.
I suspect the seller is a cheap ass and (if he indeed replaced the bulbs) put in some cheap ersatz.
He said that he's got a ton of receivers and other gear..."...dumping all of my 'stuff'".
Sent me photos of his collection and tried to sell me other "stuff".

[sammyg2]

If it were me, I'd call my credit card company and dispute the charges so it wouldn't cost me anything.
I ALWAYS use a credit card when buying on e-bay for just that reason.

I realize that won't help you this time, I don't have anything to offer for that.
But maybe my post will help NEXT time.

[ossiblue]

From the ad:

All functions work and test as new.

Sounds like his 100% should be the same as yours.

[Don Ro]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

If it were me, I'd call my credit card company and dispute the charges so it wouldn't cost me anything.
I ALWAYS use a credit card when buying on e-bay for just that reason.

I realize that won't help you this time, I don't have anything to offer for that.
But maybe my post will help NEXT time.

I paid via PayPal...and they bill my credit card company - VISA.
Are you saying that I ought to contact VISA?

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

I paid via PayPal...and they bill my credit card company - VISA.
Are you saying that I ought to contact VISA?

Step one is to open a case against the seller on eBay.

"I received an item that does not match the seller's description."
Resolution Center - eBay

Your seller checked the "Does not accept returns" button when making his listing, BUT, even so, ebay offers money back guarantee if the item is not as described. This is good for 30 days so act quickly.
eBay Money Back Guarantee | eBay

[Don Ro]

""I received an item that does not match the seller's description.""
~~~~~~
I just saw that an hour ago.
Thanks for all the info...helpful!
.
Ebay says that I ought to try to settle w/seller first.
I'll contact AudioDoctor to get a solid estimate of repairs then contact seller to pay half.
If no go, I'll file with Ebay.
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Thanks again!

[Gogar]

"100%" operational" means all the lights light up and it passes audio. That's it.

"All functions test as new" means . . . well, who knows. What is the "new" THD spec?


As mentioned, if I buy a 911 that "runs great like new" and one cylinder has 5 lbs less compression than another, do I have recourse with the seller?

I say no, you might say something different, and that's ok.

I buy lots of vintage electronics on the internet, and it's a given that I will be inside most pieces of gear to get them where I want them. I think you have recourse for the light bulbs.

[ForBell]

Originally Posted by Gogar

"100%" operational" means all the lights light up and it passes audio. That's it.

"All functions test as new" means . . . well, who knows. What is the "new" THD spec?


As mentioned, if I buy a 911 that "runs great like new" and one cylinder has 5 lbs less compression than another, do I have recourse with the seller?

I say no, you might say something different, and that's ok.

I buy lots of vintage electronics on the internet, and it's a given that I will be inside most pieces of gear to get them where I want them. I think you have recourse for the light bulbs.

Seller: "100%" operational" "All functions test as NEW"

that above is understandable, no?

and this below is understandable, no?



"A few days later I get this email pdf from AudioDoctor:

"Problems in both output stages:
Left channel bias is near zero and cannot be regulated, will require
troubleshooting to component level.
Right channel had out of tolerance (150mV) DC offset, adjustment
is unstable and drifting. Distortion measures .18%, spec .15%. Will
require troubleshooting to component level.
Estimate to correct above $325.""
.
A few days after that, an email from AudioDoctor:

"Right now I’m concerned with getting the electronics working properly so it will be reliable. Found a couple of bad transistors in one channel, but there is still an issue. Will resume tomorrow."


"I received an item that does not match the seller's description."
Resolution Center - eBay

what the buyer received is NOT what the seller represnted.
that's understandable, no?

[WPOZZZ]

I had no idea those were that valuable. I better check on mine in my drum room.

[robertocravallo]

Doesn't PAYPAL also "protect" you in cases like this? At least here in Germany it works that way. If something is not right and you paid via PAYPAL, check with them first. That is my MAIN reason for using the PAYPAL service. Just don't wait to long...

Reading the ad for the receiver, I would expect pretty much a perfect 30 plus years product! Seeing what you paid, you did to!

I think, that you are a reasonable man, wanting to split the cost. Speaks for you!