Gas Furnace Advice

[zakthor]

Our gas furnace has a cracked heat exchanger. Awesome furnace dude who installed our system when the house was remodeled (before we owned it) doesn't do installs any more and if he made an exception he still wouldn't have time until the spring. He says its possible we can braze the crack for this winter but not recommended because furnace is old and there's always the risk of carbon monoxide leak.

Anyway he's a quality guy but not available. He recommended we get an 80% efficiency furnace because much more reliable than the new high efficiency models. I doubt that 20% makes much difference to us as we live in a mild climate (seattle area.) He recommended Rheem as a good brand.

Anyone have good/bad to say about any furnace?

Our furnace is in the basement, blows the air upwards. Hopefully we can drop a new furnace in there and be done, no need for us to explore geo-heat pumps, etc.

Anyone recommend an installer in the seattle area? I've read that all modern furnaces are the same and that installation and support matter most.

I like the concept of "multi stage burner" and "variable speed blower" but have no idea what they do to reliability.

Thanks!

[billybek]

The electrics/electronics on mids and highs are almost exactly the same.
If you would be happier with the mid go with it and as an added bonus you shouldn't need to change your venting.
Plus gas is ridiculously cheap right now. The service charges are typically more than the fuel.
Code for the city here is high efficiency furnaces only.
Codes change so make sure that you have everything covered and have it inspected.

[VincentVega]

Make sure you check the venting, more efficient could mean direct vent so no chimney and plumbing out the wall. Simplest install would be the same style you have.

[reverie]

Zak, you might give these folks a call.

Home Owners Club

When I lived on Mercer Island, I hired contractors listed with the Home Owners Club. It costs $60 a year, and they only have good experienced contractors. We got a new gas furnace installed, a new driveway, a new roof, and bathrooms remodeled. It gave me peace of mind to deal with good people.

_

[Por_sha911]

Avoid HydroAir, Heatmaker, Kenmore, Veisman, Boderus:
All have proprietary parts so they hold them hostage when it come time to purchase.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by zakthor

Anyone have good/bad to say about any furnace?

Our furnace is in the basement, blows the air upwards. Hopefully we can drop a new furnace in there and be done, .

I like the concept of "multi stage burner" and "variable speed blower" but have no idea what they do to reliability.

Gas is cheap now, but who knows about the future? I have a Bryant condensing furnace with multi-stage burners and variable speed blower. It's 5 years old and I haven't had a single problem. It keeps the house more comfortable than the old furnace, which was either on full blast or off.

[LWJ]

Big names are best. Trane, Bryant, carrier, Ruud, similar.

And Zakthor, just replace it. It would suck to end up dead.

[zakthor]

Late update: Four companies provided estimates. All showed up within a week. I guess this is furnace time. First two companies were really jokes. We went with Belred Heating. Best price and they spent a bunch of time measuring the house heat load and determining that given the house and environment we'd never benefit from variable speed or higher efficiency.

Massive range in prices from the companies: from 1400 up to 14k. We went with the cheapest of the 5 choices belred recommended - an 80% goodman, single stage blower and burner. Bonus is that we saved $300 by keeping our existing thermostat (programmable thing from home depot.)

BelRed mirrored what our old furnace guy said. The high efficiency furnaces require yearly maintenance, also the exhaust condenses and is corrosive and the basement install is a problem.

Turns out the cheapest furnace wasn't in stock so next day they show with choice #3 for the same price, a better unit (4 blower speeds, 2 stage burner) with slightly higher btu than we chose but still 80% of what we had previously.) Works with our current thermostat. Cost was $1400 including tax and permits.

New unit works fine, quiet, its like it didn't happen, oh and they redid the intake ducting in the furnace room because the old stuff had big gaps. These gaps are a potential health issue as the intake can suck exhaust and blow it through the house. Poking around it looks like they did a good job, sturdy and no leaks. Inspector said good job.

So hopefully we get 30 trouble free years from this unit.

[billybek]

Originally Posted by zakthor

So hopefully we get 30 trouble free years from this unit.

You won't. The new furnaces are not built to last the way the simple furnaces of the past were. If you get 15 to 20 years out of it you will be fortunate.

Good that you found what you need at a reasonable price.
You will be happier with the staged furnace and being able to get the right amount of airflow for your home.

[bornrich]

I bought a Trane in 2004 ($1500) and so far this year after 3 failures I have pain another $1100 on repairs. I am really disappointed in this.

[billybek]

Originally Posted by bornrich

I bought a Trane in 2004 ($1500) and so far this year after 3 failures I have pain another $1100 on repairs. I am really disappointed in this.

I just bailed on my 15 year old Trane 2 stage. It had an intermittent glitch that was tough to track down. Couldn't trust it and didn't want to throw money at it.
There is a new York 97% two stage variable blower furnace in place. The cost was only twice the material cost to repair the Trane. YMMV

[calimedeiros]

Heat exchangers are not even close what they used to be
these new high eff furnaces suck
seems like the guys at my company are always replacing the secondary heat exchangers due to the condensation eating apart the secondary
problem is here in Canada you can't buy med eff
ohh well more service hours

[billybek]

Originally Posted by calimedeiros

Heat exchangers are not even close what they used to be
these new high eff furnaces suck
seems like the guys at my company are always replacing the secondary heat exchangers due to the condensation eating apart the secondary
problem is here in Canada you can't buy med eff
ohh well more service hours

The York furnace has a 10 year parts warranty and a lifetime heat exchanger warranty. Need to read the fine print on the labor component of that as the labor to do some of that work will exceed the new furnace costs.
A great deal of the cooked secondary heat exchanger is due to improper leveling of the unit causing the condensate to pool and rot out the exchanger.
That 15 year old Trane has the typical hot spots for an inshot burner but otherwise the exchangers are sound. Going to put the thing on Kijiji as a parts furnace.

[stealthn]

Lennox...

[LakeCleElum]

1) Most here would have no idea where the hell Beaux Arts is located.
2) For me, I'm impressed that someone there has the sense to do research and not just whip out the Checkbook.....
3) I used to drive by there every day 45 years ago heading in and out of Bellevue....

[cabmandone]

I'd absolutely go 90% eff. or better. The only thing you really have to be careful of on the 95% and up is generally they have DC drive blowers and you can get into more electrical trouble. I have a 90% that is about 19 years old. The only problem I had was a plugged secondary heat exchanger which was really more of a Carrier design flaw than anything else. The 80% furnaces have a circuit board, inducer motor to clear gasses, electronic igniter, flame roll out switch, limit switch and electronic gas valve which makes them electronically the same as a 90% efficient furnace.
I have installed Carrier or the off brand Payne since 1990 and really like their products. My 20 year old no name Carrier made heat pump is still kicking.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by calimedeiros

Heat exchangers are not even close what they used to be
these new high eff furnaces suck
seems like the guys at my company are always replacing the secondary heat exchangers due to the condensation eating apart the secondary
problem is here in Canada you can't buy med eff
ohh well more service hours

What brand furnace and are you using Propane gas?

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by cabmando

I'd absolutely go 90% eff. or better. The only thing you really have to be careful of on the 95% and up is generally they have DC drive blowers and you can get into more electrical trouble. I have a 90% that is about 19 years old. The only problem I had was a plugged secondary heat exchanger which was really more of a Carrier design flaw than anything else. The 80% furnaces have a circuit board, inducer motor to clear gasses, electronic igniter, flame roll out switch, limit switch and electronic gas valve which makes them electronically the same as a 90% efficient furnace.
I have installed Carrier or the off brand Payne since 1990 and really like their products. My 20 year old no name Carrier made heat pump is still kicking.

Our old furnace was a carrier. Installers said it was a cheap unit but sure served us well. With our mild climate the higher efficiency furnaces would take us 10+ years to pay for themselves - at least with the quotes we got.

LakeCleElum: my grandpa was born in cle elum. Funny the older I get the more I like it out there.

[pdxfj]

I had to install a new furnace a few years ago to replace one that had been installed back in the late 60's. Old, noisy beast that I caught just in time since the heat box was about to crack all the way through.

Several companies came out and as the OP discovered the price ranges are nuts. Ended up with a 95.5%, single stage Coleman furnace. Can't remember who makes it, but it has been 100% trouble free since install.

I have a basement install, with condensate pump. One thing that impressed me about the installer is they installed a T on the exhaust with a small section of PVC and a cap facing the floor. Then they tapped the cap for a fitting and fed it into the condensate pump. This is so the condensation from the exhaust never gets back into the furnace. They had a number of failures from it and after installing the drain on the T fitting, they never get call backs.

Gas bill dropped quite a bit, and dropped even more last year after I put all new siding on the house and put insulation in the walls (nothing was ever installed..40's vintage house). New furnace is about 1/4 the size of the old one and puts out a lot more heat.

[recycled sixtie]

We have a 10 year old Trane furnace. It is mid efficiency, two stage with a pump that pumps out the condensate. Absolutely no problems at all. What I noticed about this furnace is that the heat is more evenly distributed throughout the house. Furnace is quiet. Gas bill is pretty good too.