The joys of plane ownership
 

First off I love my plane. I sold a 73t and a roller to help pay for it along with a ton of early parts. That was four years ago and we all know where early 911 prices have gone.

The great thing about the plane is that I can cruise around 175 mph and it's legal. And I can generally go in a strait line to my destination. I recently took some friends down to Key West for the day, a one hour flight makes that possible, it would be a 5 1/2 hour drive otherwise. Each way.

But on the way back I was informed that my transponder wasn't working, so it's in the shop today getting a new one installed. I was told 8 to 10 hours installation time at $95 per hour. Plus the cost of the transponder. I also have to think about meeting some new equipment requirements in 2020, that's probably going to cost me another 4 or 5 thousand.

It cost me about 20 to 25 thousand a year to own the plane and fly 100 hours. And this is if nothing breaks.

And the plane has probably dropped in value.

I hope it hasn't got a Lycoming engine that needs rebuilding at some time.

But its still fun isn't it!!!!

That's still cheaper than Porsche club racing! Enjoy.

I've heard that Contenental will be increasing their overhauled engines by 20%:eek:. They already cost 30k-40k for a flat six. It's just unbelievable to cost that much to overhaul a flat six. I have a Contenental IO-470 with 400 hrs since overhaul. Hopefully I still have many years to go. Then it will be scrap.

You didn't just pull the txp from the rack and send it out to be repaired?

I'm fortunate to have a great avionics shop at my home airport.

I am thinking, however, of selling my airplane (which is very similar to Mr Cummins') and going with a kit built, most likely an RV-7.

Nearly as fast as the Bonanza on far less fuel, capable of limited aerobatics, but most importantly, I can do the maintenance myself.

It was frustrating a bit ago when the flexible duct between the air filter and intake manifold started showing signs of deterioration. It's a silicone tube, 4" diameter, about 6" long, held in place by two hose clamps. Can I legally change it myself, or is it to be done only by a certified mechanic?

I did it while the mechanic replaced an air pump, so he signed the logbook for both. 100% legal.

In one of the few areas where the FAA uses common sense, the rule is if a guy builds his own airplane, he is probably qualified to maintain it.

It was an old narco, not worth fixing. I'm replacing it with a garmin.

I've thought about a homebuilt myself. And the ability to use the much less expensive avionics. The problem is the wife likes the four seater and the cost of a RV-10 is still quite high.

People die in home built kits. I wouldn't do it.But if you love flying?

True. But the RV series have an excellent record of kits being completed and flying.
Lots of factory support, great engineering- Though they are fast, they also handle slow speeds very well, and can use very short runways.

Many homebuilt kits outside of the RV series are never finished. Plenty of partially-built airplanes for sale. Either parts are missing, plans are incomplete, or lots of fabrication is still necessary. The RV's come with very good plans. You're basically assembling pieces- Not fabricating.

The "hot-rod" homebuilts tend to have nasty traits at the slow end that lead to too many accidents. High stall speeds, very abrupt stalls that quickly develop into spins, things that make them need long, smooth runways.

The founder/designer/engineer of the RVs flies his out of a short grass strip to get to work at the factory. He designed them to be nimble and fun, yet have benign stall characteristics. One of the few kits that would probably pass FAA standards if he decided to sell completed airplanes.

Most kits would never pass FAA testing.

That's why I'm thinking of an RV.

I count my blessing owning a sailboat, admission can be for a decent boat around 100K which would be a good runner, annual slip fees and ins runs about 5K and if any repair work, well, that's why they call them boat, bring out another thousand.

Still a lot cheaper than raising 3 children.

People also die in Bonanzas and Cessnas.

Far more than driving, or just about any other activity, the level of safety in aviation is up to the pilot. The accident record would be cut in half if pilots quit doing two things:

-Quit running out of gas!
-Quit flying into bad weather!

If I stay away from these two stupid pilot tricks, chances are I'll be around to fly another day.

That would depend on what you race.......

Those costs seem high. I bought a new Cirrus SR22 GTS ten years ago and I have been running a lot less than that yearly for similar usage.

As a builder of a homebuilder and having looked at RVs over the years...that is a good choice.

I got out of the airplane game a long time ago. I remember when you first asked about buying a plane, I mentioned the 3 F's. I still get a hankering once in a while to buy a plane...then I go and rent for a few hours to kill the desire.

I went back and looked at my cost and it is closer to actually being 15 -18k to operate. My plane being older I spent a lot on upgrades over the years that I didn't have to have, but wanted. I had shoulder harnesses, engine monitor, fuel flow gauge, auto pilot, and a few other things installed that a newer plane would probably already have. So hopefully going forward my cost will come down some.

Last year I only spent about 12k, but only flew 76 hours. But I dinged the elevator backing it into the hangar and I was down for a month. The insurance paid 6,000 for my accident.

Hey, you can't take it with you right? We gotta spend it on something we enjoy or all those days working were futile.

I grew up around aviation as my dad was an aerospace engineer, pilot, and certified aviation mechanic. We (he mostly) rebuilt several aircraft in our garage when I was a kid and that is where I learned to turn wrenches. The aviation community is a lot like the Porsche community and though my dad has been gone for 20 years I stay in touch with several of the airport folks.

I am not flying right now but if I were shopping for a plane the RV series would be on the short list. One of the best combinations of performance and safety IMO and just a sweet airplane to fly and land.

If it were cheap you'd be sharing the skies with every idiot you presently share the roads with.

I'm fine with the cost of flying being a barrier to entry that keeps most of the masses out. When I'm in the air I'm in the company of professionals (or at least people who tend to have some skin in the game and take it seriously as a result). It cuts down on the percentage of imbeciles considerably.

I'm giving serious thought to a plane of my own but for now I'm renting as needed and that works okay. It still is far more enjoyable than driving.

As long as you are enjoying the experience, enjoy the experience:)

I fly with my neighbor off his grass strip once a month or so. He was a Navy F-4 Phantom pilot and is almost 70. Very professional.

I really wish I had the bandwidth for an RV series. I've helped build a few and the level of workmanship of the kit parts equals retail aircraft.

I am in Yakima, Washington this week. We are setting up our unmanned aircraft services office here. We hired two young, local pilots to get started with training and drone flights.

One of the young men is from one of the families here that own a large amount of acreage and also have a processing plant for hops, apples, cherries and blueberries.

They own a Cessna 182 and I went for a ride yesterday afternoon. Flying out of Yakima on a clear day is really an unbelievable visual experience: Adams, Rainer...you can reach out and touch them.

After the flight we stopped by and talked to these folks: http://www.cubcrafters.com/carboncubss

Wow.

There are many good points mentioned above. DM I think your average running costs should come down each year.In theory anyway!
Kind of like a Porsche air cooled where you are replacing and upgrading parts. The value of your plane is increasing because of it and apparently you don't lose when selling an aircraft(that is the theory anyway unless the engine needs a major overhaul).

In addition if you rented an aircraft of this calibre I am sure it would be pretty expensive(if you could find one like this). If you downgraded and rented a C172 it would be 50 mph slower and considerably cheaper.

To me that is the major problem with private ownership is that the aircraft is not used enough. Then you have shared ownership with its associated headaches of inconvenience and possible arguments with the joint owners.

To me it all boils down to $$$. Would you rather spend the $$ on something else?
Now you have owned an aircraft like this I would think it would be very hard to give it up. Great looking aircraft.
Guy

Our company has a 1965 Cessna 206 that the company bought in 1969. It is just our work pickup truck. Our chief pilot is very meticulous, and keeps a great log book. He often flies 40 hours a week so his butt is real familiar with that airplane after almost 20 years of flying it. We have a mechanic on retainer and we are the top fuel buyer at a local airport where we keep it hangared. It is not a pretty airplane, but we know it is very solid. It is just insane how expensive it is to fly a small aircraft. Our chief pilot just loves flying and airplanes. He bought a 1946 140 as a second toy to go along with his C210T personal aircraft.

My buddy had to have his plane repainted as it would not pass its yearly due to some flaking paint. So what started out as a $13k paint job. Has now ballooned into about $100k in repairs! First the when pulling the motors they found cracks in the motor mounts, next he needs to rebuild one of the motors, decides to do both. Now the cranks and cases he has no longer can be used, so its cheaper to buy two new motors.

I subscribed to the Canadian MOT accident reports for many years, and came to the conclusion that if you fly a tricycle (land) gear airplane in daylight, in good weather, at reasonable altitudes, and sober, then it's a fairly safe activity.

The joys of owning a twin. 3x the cost! Just kidding, sort of.

My local FBO has a really nice Cessna 182 for when I need four seats. A step down from the Bonanza, but with a G1000 glass panel I suppose I could fly it if necessary. It isn't scheduled nearly as often as the 172s, so availability shouldn't be a problem.

Flaking paint is just cosmetic; not an airworthiness issue, but cracks in the motor mounts sure are!

The avionics guys I have used in the past usually quote me a "job price". I don't like having an open ended contract for work. When I had my Garmin 430 installed, it cost me about $1500. When I had my transponder installed, it was about $700. (Those prices don't include the equipment)

As for transponder, I highly recommend the Garmin 335. It meets the ADS-B requirement of 2020 now so that you don't have to pay for another piece of equipment and labor in 4 years.

Or if you just want the cheap "fix it for now" option - replace what you have with a like unit. IE, if you have a King KT-76A, buy a good used one ($400) and swap it yourself. It takes like 2 minutes. And since radios and transponders are "rack mount" it is legal for the owner to swap good for bad when staying with the same model unit.


WHY ????

When I had a Cessna 172, insurance was about $800 per year and the annual usually set me back only ~$1k or so.

It costs me about $1800 per year to insure this, and about $65/hr in gas.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1463092026.jpg

Is that a Pitts?

Close. It is a Steen Skybolt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt
Steen Aero Lab - Steen Skybolt Homepage

^ I have loved airplanes from as far back as I can remember. I would probably kill myself flying one though.

While I've done some truly nutty things that could have cost me my life, flying isn't one of them. Though fun, I've always taken flying seriously.
You don't have to be "on the edge" to have an amazing experience.

A simple intro flight at the local airport is highly recommended!

No, I'm saying that flying looks really hard, and things move really fast. Forget being nutty, I'd just do something stupid and fall to the ground screaming like a baby.

Flying should be very safe and very methodical. I approach it with a different mindset than daily tasks. That routine and the small level of anxiety associated with it keeps me safer (I hope). I flew from So Cal to So Oregon today nonstop...great day to be above the ground. 3 hours 15 minutes in the air vs. 13 hours with a zillion nutbags on the I5 on the ground. I had 20kts -25 it's on the tail and 192 kts across the ground. And you get views like this:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1463098856.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1463098904.jpg

If it floats, flies, or ****s, it's cheaper to rent it ;)

Yes, and a used Toyota Corolla is cheaper than a Porsche. Too bad. I'll drive the Porsche anyway.

I don't fly to save money- I save money to fly!

Hangar is $3600, insurance is $1200, annuals are $2000-$2500. Fuel for 100 hrs is around $5,500. So that's $12,300 not counting IFR certs, BFR, Some hood time or other training. This year I had the starter adapter rebuilt as it was starting to slip, add the transponder and I'm at $3,000 in maintenance already. So $15,000 plus and the annual is in July, I'm not expecting any problems though.

The transponder was a narco AT-5, it was from the early 70's. I checked at two of the larger avionics shop and they were amazed to even see one. So no slide in replacement. I'm going with a used Garmin 327 for now, I'll probably just add a box to meet the adsb requirements later.

Thanks,

All I see for rent are ragged out 152's and 172's. Plus forget about taking one on a cross country trip for a week or so. I considered joint ownership, but elected to just buy what I could afford to own by myself. I do complain about some of the cost, but mechanically I don't scrimp. My radios may be old, but anything that keeps it flying is going to be in good shape.

I looked at the Garmin 335, but installed with waas, I was looking at around $5000. I'll probably still be looking at about the same price total, but I won't have to spend the extra $3000 now. And hopefully prices may come down some.

I stopped at the shop today, I've been out of town, and the plane is ready. I just got there at closing time and don't know the final bill. But the guy that was still there said they didn't have any problems. I'll get it Monday.

I thought piston was expensive until I started looking at an Eclipse VLJ...those run at about $200k per year. Yikes!