Thank you! It was a tough decision but it was the right one for me. I have a buddy in the program. It has a nearly 90% post-grade hiring rate. You do 3 placements, at 3 different companies, in management positions, and usually if your not a plug and they like you, you'll have an offer for when you graduate. There were a few schools with a little more "cred" but only in the investment banking/wealth management sector. Which is not where I want to be. I think those jobs will be replaced by robots :D

You mention something that I can relate to, that is a flaw with the current generations. Years of conditioning that university is some how superior to college/more trade oriented careers is a real problem. It's a trade off. Millennials are less handy than past generations, but much more tech savvy, obviously. But with YouTube and the web, that could change. I knew nothing about cars or Porsche repair until I joined up here.

It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. Who wants to be the bookie?

It's very tough to get ahead if you remain a W2 employee all your life. An old boss told me that 25 years ago, and I really do believe it's true.

For me, I own a small business which currently has about 80 employees. I started this company after helping start (and eventually sell) a small bank. Just days out of college I began working (literally) 60 hours a week, no overtime, bought company stock and lived below my means. When this next opportunity arose, it meant lots of risk, but I was no longer a W2 employee.

About 75% of my work force today was born in Mexico. And no matter what we offer by way of pay today, we cannot get employees to stick around unless they were born "using an outhouse". The work is hard, dirty and hot, and I have many employees who are solidly middle class. But if they were born in the US we can't get them to stay. Period.

My only conclusion is that it is just too easy to live here and be comfortable without having to work hard. And without my industry, many would not have a roof over their heads.

I find the reaction of Millennials (and Gen Xers to some extent) to generational criticism interesting. It reflects much of the "everyone gets an award" mentality that engenders the critique. Expecting wages that are higher than the value of their labor, expecting "free stuff" etc...No attempt to listen or learn from the critique...just excuses. If you want to win an "award" in life, work longer, harder and smarter than the next guy...stop expecting others to pay your bills.

If everyone tells you that you are morbidly obese...you should probably consider some exercise or a diet. At least get on the scales. Arguing that you are are really fit and svelte when you are carrying an extra 150lbs is downright unhealthy. Why are you the last to know? Did you strike out every time you stepped up to the plate in little league and still get a trophy? Are you shocked you are not playing for the Yankees? Do you live much of your life in a video or paintball game...or some other version of an alternate reality? Are you the guy who cannot get his face out of his Iphone long enough to cross the street? Do you live in your Mom's basement? Are you in your mid 20's or older and your parents still help support you? If you were half as good as you think, employers would compete for your labor and you would not need to expect government to force them to hire you and pay you more than your labor is worth in a free market. As you line up to support socialists for President, you show just how broken and lacking in wisdom you are. Face it, many of you are just that

And many baby-boomers are many things, including but not limited to the things you mentioned. Generalize all you want. In 10 - 20 years, we'll see where the cards fall. Future speculation based on a generation that hasn't matured is conjecture.

You are absolutely right. There have been...and are folks from each generation like that. What is alarming is the relative percentage of folks that match this description in each group. We have always had folks who lacked discipline, focus, etc...just in lower numbers. We called them "losers" or similar. Most, except the very rich figured it out quickly about the age of 15 or 16 when they became adults and had to go to work...or certainly when they were 17 or 18 and graduated from high school and had to provide for themselves.

I see the photo of 60s hippies that is often posted here. What you don't realize is that they were actually quite rare in most of the nation (flyover) and were quite the novelty to most of us. Something one saw in the movies (like Easy Rider)...and if in person, gawked at like some rare species. There were very, very few folks like that and most of those folks that lived that life did so for a matter of a few months...maybe for a summer...then cut their hair, quit smoking pot and went to work or college, got married and raised a family...or went to basic training on the way to Vietnam. A few fell through the cracks to a relative degree...couldn't hold a real job or couldn't get past the drugs. Most of those ended up in jail or became college professors...or liberal politicians. Some went to Canada.

Yes, people of all generations have had to "find themselves" to some extent...but almost all had done so long before they were 20...and certainly by their early 20s. Wealthy folks always...to some degree have had the luxury of avoiding adulthood a little longer, but the "loser" population seems to have increased dramatically (across all generations)...with the worst case among the younger ones.

The folks who post here (and especially PARF) are a good example. The majority are older folks with backgrounds across the spectrum. Those with higher education completed it several decades ago. Many probably have skills that are a bit rusty, but acquit themselves quite well. Despite the long period since they were in school, most seem to have mastered the language and understand what they read.

Most (not all) of the few younger PARFers claim recent and extensive education...yet struggle with basic grammar and sentence structure (not typos). Many also struggle with reading comprehension. They can read a straightforward article regarding a simple concept and are in able to understand what is being reported...even when other posters explain the very simple concept (not talking about the political aspect here...just basic facts). Sadly, some of these fellows constantly proclaim that everyone else posting is clearly stupid. Apparently, they still labor under that paradigm they were raised under (everyone gets a trophy), because they have always had a reading comprehension problem...but teachers and adults never told/corrected them as to not damage their fragile ego/self-esteem.

Previous generations expected to gain wisdom with age and experience and earn respect over time with their work/contributions. Many millenials do not see the world that way...have no respect others and asinine that they are somehow innately blessed with wisdom and deserve the respect of all.

Folks from earlier generations who were looked upon as soft or irresponsible set out to prove themselves otherwise by supporting themselves and making the nation a meritocracy and the free market beacon of freedom to the world. As a group, the more recent generations seem to prefer to just complain that the earlier generations are unfairly mischaracterizing their group and that they were just dealt a poor hand. They are going to wait 10-20 more years and then see what happens.

That will be too late as earlier generations will live and work longer...and will pass the car keys on to the following generation (skipping most of the millenials) if this one can't handle it.

Congratulations! Being a W2 puts many restrictions on your freedom to excel. The trade off is relative security and a lack of stress on your life vice an entrepreneur. After 30 years of running my core business I can do the work with my eyes closed, it's the stress of planning for, while not knowing how, when, or if an employee, or a vendor, or the market is going to blow up and jamb a stick in the spokes of my well-oiled machine that takes most of my energy.

There are lots of ways to skin a dawg...many exit the corporate world, military, etc. after successful careers with a small fraction of the time and stress required
and never look back :)

At risk of repeating my self.........
IMO, raising kids is the toughest job you'll ever have.......and ya get no training, but you'll live with it for the rest of your life. I assume that if you screw the pooch, you may be able to fix it if you're paying attention.

I got lucky and fumbled somewhat, but I'm proud of what the wife & I molded.
When they turn 40 ,your job is done.:D

no, actually its the drop in computer and touch screen costs thats enabling this, not the rise in minimum wage.

ie, it was going to happen anyway.

you generation got all that "free stuff"

my dad, paid for his engineering degree, working part time pushing carts at target. paid for it in cash, with a part time job. what happened to that world? what happened to the world where a single blue collar worker could buy a house and raise a family on one income? you were given everything, and you destroyed it.

we merely want what you guys didn't have to work for. you were given everything, and now you think we are entitled for wanting what you had, and then destroyed for your own kids. you destroyed that world, we are trying to build it again. and we are entitled? lol.

you guys milked a free world. and then destroyed it for your own kids. that is your legacy.

This Baby Boomer didn't get free stuff.

And while I do not want to bag on specific Millennials, that generation got plenty!

And BTW - you never answered my question Punk. What training or what life experience made you such an economist?

compared to the shaft we got? you bet your ass it was "free"

i worked part time as an engineering intern, in school, and full time every summer, and didn't even pay for half my college, and i did not go to an expensive school. in fact literally the same school my dad went to. so go and tell me that working part time, at target, in the summer to pay for all of your college and living expenses, isn't easier. cause thats what the boomers got. might as well have been free how easy they got it. the boomers were born on 3rd, and just had to work there way home. we are starting the count at 2 strikes, but clearly, its just because we are lazy.

I am an engineer. economic data is no different than any other form of data. the objective data shows quite conclusively, that millennials are working harder, for less money, and starting adult life 10-100 grand behind the boomers, entering the workforce in the worst economy since the great depression, from a crash the boomers caused. but clearly, its just because we are lazy.

and we are entitled? :rolleyes:

but we do text too much.

My pet peav about people raising children right now (that probably goes back at least to the 90s)

Ok little Johnny,
-I'm not going to tell you again.
-You've got one last chance.
-I'm going to count to three
-one...two...

Oh for christ sake, just take that damned hammer away form little johnny, and kick his ass all the way to the car. Get him the hell outa the store before he breaks more ****! :rolleyes:

Fint, daep and Wayner, a big "+1" from me.

This is what I was referring to earlier. In a forum with an audience that is largely baby-boomers, when a comment/generalization is made that fits your beliefs everyone clinks glasses and chants "Here here!". Similarly, in a forum with a millennial audience, when someone makes a comment about baby-boomers, everyone will clink glasses and chant "Here here!".

Most of the posts are anecdotal perceptions and beliefs that "support" generalizations about millennials. My posts have been mostly to try and convince some of you folks that your just making generalizations and they may not actually be true, so I haven't felt the need to post actual facts or statistics. Whereas many of the posts that target millennials, really aren't made with any facts, statistics or objective data, just your own perceptions. While I'm not entirely discounting your experience, as you are far far far far far...far...older than I ;), and experience is an incredibly valuable thing, I would just appreciate some actual statistics to support these comments.

Perhaps real minimum wage purchasing power relative to current student debt? Job availability? Retiring ages of baby-boomers vs the greatest? Gimme some good stuff that I can research and try and to counter, instead of just your experiences with the young folk. As we have seen, the previous generation has been criticizing their successors for thousands of years.

I just find it a bit ironic and troublesome that a lot of these posts will utilize your experience to make the generalizations, but follow with examples of how your kids seem to be exceptions, and "trophy" millennials. Is it just your kids? How are their friends? How am I?

PS. I didn't bother using proper "you're" and "your" usage. If you cannot understand, I apologize for my stupidity, especially to you, sammy.

^JD, fair enough. But read the posts. Fint goes to great pains to say that each generation has it's losers, and Wayner is not making an exception for any trophy kids. Daep says that he's not bagging on all Millenials.

The truth is there has been a generational shift as to personal responsibility and accountability for the consequences of one's actions. Not saying everyone, but there has been an erosion in our entire culture as a whole.

Or the way my sister raises hers, yelling at anyone who corrects her little hell-spawn, cough, angel...

YO CP, yep I (and many others of us older boomers) definitely had it easy as all I had to do was work my way through college in the 60's by checking groceries (you know, almost free, kind of like your Dad did).

and that first job I got after graduation ?? I was a highly paid E-1 in the USAF. You see, I got classified 1-A right after graduation (we only had 4 years worth of deferments to get through college in those days) and it was either the USAF or the US Army and the army most likely meant Vietnam which was not a desired destination in 1968.. so my internship (or first 4 years of employment after college) was provided by the USAF and you wouldn't believe what the pay scales were prior to going all volunteer...

So what is your draft classification these days? oh that's right all you have to do is register. No danger of you actually having to join up and serve.

And I know those internships must really be rough these days...

JD, you and most of the younger guys posting here are all right in my world. But some are a lost cause :). I'm a late boomer....paid the max into the system for most of my corporate career and don't really expect to see it again....

PS: though Sammy and me :) can't speel goodly....these damn smart azz devices seem to make me seem smarter and dumber concurrently...all at the same time....together :)

Carry on man.....

JD

My example is purely anecdotal, but based entirely on my experience as a parent with our peers.

If I had to guess I'd say the 80/20 rule applies

20% of the kids in the job market today are there without any real competition against them because their parents were the 20% who were there to be parents instead of trying to win some popularity contest with their kids. Sometimes you got to be the heavy, and those kids excel

I may have my ,% guesstimate skewed but you get the point I hope.